Why is railway catering such a rip off?

[py_megapixel]

In TOC managed stations is it the TOC that is responsible for renting out the space, or Network Rail?

 

[gswindale]

It's not just the UK - seems that US airports try to get away with some excessive pricing as well

Man’s $28 beer at LaGuardia airport sparks fierce debate about airport prices

Social media users have noticed sky-high prices at New York airport outlets

www.independent.co.uk

I note they said it was an "error" and has been corrected, but how many people will have paid the asking price? I certainly enjoyed various Sam Adams beers in the states when we did our Boston/New England trip a few years back, but would object to that sort of uplift compared to Heineken

 

[Trainfan2019]

I've got to be desperate and I mean really desperate to buy food or drink on railway stations. Never ever do I buy food or drink onboard trains as their prices are worse than the stations.

Exception is Manchester Piccadilly only because Sainsbury's there charge near normal Sainsbury's prices. However, as mentioned upthread there is a co-op just outside the station. There's also a Gregg's outside too.

Sheffield station is an odd one though as although it's got the regular high price outlets, the Superdrug there is usually the best priced food outlet. Downside is that it's inside the front of the station so if you're only changing trains there and aren't going anywhere near the main front entrance you won't know Superdrug is there.

 

[XAM2175]

Because of one little company called SSP. Select Service Partners. Virtually every brand of station catering is operated by them - Pumpkin, Coffee House, Delice de France, Uppercrust... - at stations, even WHSmith, M&S and Costa are often nothing more than franchises owned by SSP. The variety of different brands gives the illusion of competition when in reality your money is going to the same place whatever you do.

There is a beautiful irony in the fact that SSP is the modern form of British Rail's catering outfit
(as noted by @LNW-GW Joint)

If you think the U.K. is bad, I suggest you don’t try to buy anything at Geneva airport. McDonalds Meal deal £11, bottle of coke a fiver, etc.

You can often make it back on comparatively-cheaper transport fares, though.

 

[geoffk]

It's just like Motorway Service Stations, there are plenty of Supermarkets near Motorway exits where the food & fuel is considerably cheaper. After years of regular visits to the same locations (in my case Motor Racing circuits), you know where to go.

And airports of course, but then it's more difficult to go elsewhere. Sports grounds also probably.

 

[Class83]

M&S station pricing doesn't seem that different to regular stores, Boots is usually ok as well. WH Smith are ridiculous, though I haven't bought anything from a non-station/Motorway Service Area branch in decades, so that may just be their regular pricing.

The catering outlets in stations are just bad, Burger King bump up the prices, there are a few Costa/Nero which are ok, but the other (as mentioned SSP sub brands) are both rubbish and expensive. The low point for these was when I paid for their overpriced coffee, they didn't have the right change, so decided to short change me, I had to explain fairly clearly to the member of staff that wasn't on at their prices.

 

[Bald Rick]

In TOC managed stations is it the TOC that is responsible for renting out the space, or Network Rail?

TOCs, usually.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 6 Aug 2021 ==

M&S station pricing doesn't seem that different to regular stores,

It is. Certain products have different barcodes, sometimes coloured pink. And the offers are fewer / non existent.

 

[geoffk]

M&S station pricing doesn't seem that different to regular stores, Boots is usually ok as well. WH Smith are ridiculous, though I haven't bought anything from a non-station/Motorway Service Area branch in decades, so that may just be their regular pricing.

The catering outlets in stations are just bad, Burger King bump up the prices, there are a few Costa/Nero which are ok, but the other (as mentioned SSP sub brands) are both rubbish and expensive. The low point for these was when I paid for their overpriced coffee, they didn't have the right change, so decided to short change me, I had to explain fairly clearly to the member of staff that wasn't on at their prices.

I have a Bite Card although it's not been used for a while. I think the discount offered was reduced a few years ago (20% to 10%?) so hardly worth having now. Not all station outlets accept them though.

 

[py_megapixel]

I have a Bite Card although it's not been used for a while. I think the discount offered was reduced a few years ago (20% to 10%?) so hardly worth having now. Not all station outlets accept them though.

Also they aren't available to new members any more and the website hasn't been touched for months if not years. It's practically dead.

Hardly unsurprising - after all, why would SSP need to offer discounts? Not to entice custom - they have a monopoly after all!

 

[Grumpy Git]

It's not just the UK - seems that US airports try to get away with some excessive pricing as well

Man’s $28 beer at LaGuardia airport sparks fierce debate about airport prices

Social media users have noticed sky-high prices at New York airport outlets

www.independent.co.uk

I note they said it was an "error" and has been corrected, but how many people will have paid the asking price? I certainly enjoyed various Sam Adams beers in the states when we did our Boston/New England trip a few years back, but would object to that sort of uplift compared to Heineken

About 10 years ago, Bologna Airport used to have a bar selling draught Peroni at a fair price, then one day the draught pump was "broken" and only more expensive but run of the mill bottled beer was available for several months. The bar then evolved into a redeveloped "deli" type establishment and on my first visit, the only beer avaliable was some sort of craft offering in 500ml bottles.

The till operator flipped off the top then asked me for €8.50 (or there abouts), I left it on the tray and remained thirsty.

 

[185]

Station Catering:
Train Companies and Network Rail are frightened of upsetting SSP who run Uppercrust Burger King etc who demand a monopoly despite a garbage expensive offering. Many stations now have invited Greggs and mainstream supermarkets on site, which is succeeding in slowly killing that ageing, 1980s SSP dinosaur.

On board Catering:
- Generally expensive due to shortsighted managers who don't understand that if the price is dropped, for say an instant coffee to £1, you will sell four times as much. A good example was CrossCountry and Arriva Trains Wales, both selling coffees at £2.50ish. Very few were buying on those services.
- At another company, the contractor was doing Kenco Instant coffees at £1 and went through 7 sleeves (70 coffees) - two full trolley urns of hot water... in just 2 hours. Far more profit in selling dirt cheap instant coffee en-masse than a few overpriced posh ones.

 

[Master29]

There’s plenty of shops outside the gates.... “Be Prepared”



If you think the U.K. is bad, I suggest you don’t try to buy anything at Geneva airport. McDonalds Meal deal £11, bottle of coke a fiver, etc.

I bought a small coffee for 8 Swiss Francs in the Burger King at Basle station and yet paid only 5 for a large latte at St Moritz so yes and no.

 

[WestRiding]

It's the publics fault for their obsessing with chain store products. Every major station is the same boring, pre-packed rubbish. Upper Crust, Starbucks, Costa, Pumpkin. Pity retail space isn't let out to a local sandwich shop, local restaurant etc. A major city station like Sheffield, and the best it has to offer is Upper Crust or Pumpkin. But the chain obsessed public go for it. Like motorway service stations, gone are the days when you could get an ACTUAL meal, all you get now is a M&S, Burger King/McDonald's and a Gregs. When did people's ambitions and wants get so low?

 

[Falcon1200]

I have a Bite Card although it's not been used for a while. I think the discount offered was reduced a few years ago (20% to 10%?) so hardly worth having now. Not all station outlets accept them though.

Also they aren't available to new members any more and the website hasn't been touched for months if not years. It's practically dead.

I tried to use my Bite Card at Carlisle station last month and was told they were no longer accepting it; Although I had used it with no problem a couple of weeks previously at Cheltenham.

I often buy supplies outside stations nowadays, not so much because of the price but for the greater variety available. Within 2 minutes walk of Glasgow Central for example there are Sainsburys, the Co-op, Greggs, Subway; and Poundland !

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Post covid, with the continuing cut in commuter levels, railway catering is heading for self inflicted oblivion with its current pricing structure, I alone with a lot of leasure travelers bring food and drink from the supermarket.

 

[AM9]

Post covid, with the continuing cut in commuter levels, railway catering is heading for self inflicted oblivion with its current pricing structure, I alone with a lot of leasure travelers bring food and drink from the supermarket.

Which is the way it should be. If travellers don't allow enough time to get food and refreshments at 'normal' outlets, that's their choice. Obviously there time is more valuable to them than either the quality of snack food, or the money that they pay for convenience of not making time to get it from lower price suppliers.
As for on-train catering, with capacity on board for bona fide travelling being at a premium, (up to early 2020), it's only right that non-essential use of that precious space pays its way.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

It still bewilders me that there must be multiple different types of rent deals under one roof based on the topics above.
Take London Vic owned and run by Network Rail) for example a normal priced McDonalds and a baby Pret exists on the concourse, next door and opposite there are 6 SSP run franchises ripping the British public off.
If Network Rail are on a revenue sharing deal with SSP for the Burger King, the M&S, the Upper Crust for example how are the other brands not being screwed on rent and subsequently screwing us passengers on price? It feels like a system that knows what these catering options bring to the balance sheet at the end of the month and they couldn't care less and have no interest in leveling the playing field or being fair to passengers.

Then take London Maylebone, its managed by Chiltern Railways, the Burger King, a small coffee brand, a bagel place etc are all charging normal decent prices no SSP in sight, they value their passengers more than profits.

Obviously something most TOCs and Network Rail don't.

 

[Mintona]

Sainsburys at Paddington is ideal for the prices compared to other outlets. But I do quite like the choice of food at big stations sometimes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There is a beautiful irony in the fact that SSP is the modern form of British Rail's catering outfit
(as noted by @LNW-GW Joint)


You can often make it back on comparatively-cheaper transport fares, though.

And to be fair part of the elevated prices (while the airport is very expensive, CHF5 was the going rate for a 500ml bottle of Coke when I was over there) is that the exchange rate is very bad for UK visitors. It is quite similar to how South East Asia feels very cheap.

 

[route101]

Don't usually buy on board. Less choice onboard. Trolley catering can result in warm beer and juice .

Do use boots and Marks at major stations. Glasgow central had a burrito place for a short while but is now a pret.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's the publics fault for their obsessing with chain store products. Every major station is the same boring, pre-packed rubbish. Upper Crust, Starbucks, Costa, Pumpkin. Pity retail space isn't let out to a local sandwich shop, local restaurant etc. A major city station like Sheffield, and the best it has to offer is Upper Crust or Pumpkin. But the chain obsessed public go for it. Like motorway service stations, gone are the days when you could get an ACTUAL meal, all you get now is a M&S, Burger King/McDonald's and a Gregs. When did people's ambitions and wants get so low?

If you remember Brief Encounter, supposedly set at Carnforth (LMS) station, it had the classic old-fashioned refreshment room run by a dragon behind the counter.
(I remember the refreshment room on Chester station used to be just like that when I first used it in 1961 - Lyons Individual Fruit Pie anyone?).
Today's facility at Carnforth is not the usual SSP outlet, but is privately run and a pleasure to use.
They piggy-back on the film's legacy of course, but they've replaced the dragon with customer-friendly staff.
There are a few other non-SSP-run refreshment rooms of course, Llandudno Jn being one.
None of these businesses have had an easy 18 months with Covid of course, and high prices are not surprising as they try and rebuild.
Prices on the high street are on the way up too.

 

[Hadders]

Bitecard still offers 10% discount, I used mine at Chesterfield station a couple of weeks ago when making a distress purchase.

 

[philosopher]

It's the publics fault for their obsessing with chain store products. Every major station is the same boring, pre-packed rubbish. Upper Crust, Starbucks, Costa, Pumpkin. Pity retail space isn't let out to a local sandwich shop, local restaurant etc. A major city station like Sheffield, and the best it has to offer is Upper Crust or Pumpkin. But the chain obsessed public go for it. Like motorway service stations, gone are the days when you could get an ACTUAL meal, all you get now is a M&S, Burger King/McDonald's and a Gregs. When did people's ambitions and wants get so low?

Birmingham Moor Street Station does have two independent coffee shops / cafes that both sell reasonably good coffee for somewhat normal prices. Both cafes seem to attract customers who are not railway passengers. There is a WHSmiths at that station, however that has remained closed since Covid started and it may have closed permanently.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Bitecard still offers 10% discount, I used mine at Chesterfield station a couple of weeks ago when making a distress purchase.

Though you can't get a new one now I believe.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Captive market is part of it. Potentially higher rents is another.

Rents high because tenants assumed to make enough profit to pay and precedent levels of rents on comparable shops.
Businesses are in business to make money and the caterers balance selling and buying prices, expenses, sales volumes and profits. It's their choice to sell lower numbers at high mark ups. The shops are not charities.

 

[Bald Rick]

It still bewilders me that there must be multiple different types of rent deals under one roof based on the topics above.
Take London Vic owned and run by Network Rail) for example a normal priced McDonalds and a baby Pret exists on the concourse, next door and opposite there are 6 SSP run franchises ripping the British public off.
If Network Rail are on a revenue sharing deal with SSP for the Burger King, the M&S, the Upper Crust for example how are the other brands not being screwed on rent and subsequently screwing us passengers on price? It feels like a system that knows what these catering options bring to the balance sheet at the end of the month and they couldn't care less and have no interest in leveling the playing field or being fair to passengers.

Then take London Maylebone, its managed by Chiltern Railways, the Burger King, a small coffee brand, a bagel place etc are all charging normal decent prices no SSP in sight, they value their passengers more than profits.

Obviously something most TOCs and Network Rail don't.

NR will be getting turnover rent for all the catering at Vic. It is up to the retailer what prices they charge.


Rents are high because the retailers choose to pay them.

 

[AM9]

NR will be getting turnover rent for all the catering at Vic. It is up to the retailer what prices they charge.



Rents are high because the retailers choose to pay them.

And it's up to the public to buy (or not). We're not talking about survival provisions in a desert here.

 

[RT4038]

Station Catering:
Train Companies and Network Rail are frightened of upsetting SSP who run Uppercrust Burger King etc who demand a monopoly despite a garbage expensive offering. Many stations now have invited Greggs and mainstream supermarkets on site, which is succeeding in slowly killing that ageing, 1980s SSP dinosaur.

On board Catering:
- Generally expensive due to shortsighted managers who don't understand that if the price is dropped, for say an instant coffee to £1, you will sell four times as much. A good example was CrossCountry and Arriva Trains Wales, both selling coffees at £2.50ish. Very few were buying on those services.
- At another company, the contractor was doing Kenco Instant coffees at £1 and went through 7 sleeves (70 coffees) - two full trolley urns of hot water... in just 2 hours. Far more profit in selling dirt cheap instant coffee en-masse than a few overpriced posh ones.

Only it probably doesn't work like that in practice. Presumably the 'at another company' was not on board trains?

 

[DerekC]

If SSP is a near monopoly (i.e. has a very large share of the market and controls multiple franchises on the same station), why hasn't the Competition and Markets Authority got its beady eye on them? After all, motorway service station franchises are, I believe, deliberately varied between different companies so that you don't get a monopoly on a particular motorway.

 

[pitdiver]

Not quite stations or Airports but try St Marks Square in Venice or around the harbour in St Tropez for extortionate prices.