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Publicity/Bus Stops in major urban areas

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philthetube

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Not sure if this fits within the thread remit but Blackpool seem pretty good, timetables seem to be changed promptly and on the trams, where services change with the seasons they seem spot on.

Having said that some of the other info is dated, I was on a tram the other day with fares information being displayed on a poster from around foru years ago and one of the trams is painted with on offer of £6 for all day travel while it is actually £5.20
 
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Robertj21a

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In West Yorkshire, Metro are pretty good. Near enough every bus stop has a printed timetable (ignoring the Covid era) and most busy stops that have room for a shelter will also have a real time display. The printed timetables have the issue of intermediate stop times being computer generated but that’s something most areas will have the issue with.

Bus stop flags only list destinations rather than service numbers, but the later has returned on new style flags in Leeds. They’d previously stopped displaying numbers probably in the early 00s when First and Arriva went through extensive frequent service changes, rationalising from the old style 90s networks to the current day ‘Overground’ style networks, and it became too big a job to keep them up to date. In reality networks are fairly static these days so they could have retuned them years ago.

Maps are still produced online and have actually only been updated in the past week.

Printed materials were supposed to be being reduced in some form in 2020, but then Covid hit and every single thing (not just stuff that was out of date) was removed due to it apparently being a way to contract Covid. It isn’t currently known what if anything will be reintroduced. Currently only Transdev services (although for the pedants I should point out there are a tiny number that don’t have a timetable and at only Team Pennine D1 has one due to them having only taken over last week) have printed timetables. Arriva have also closed the Travel Centre they ran on Metro’s behalf in Wakefield, so you wouldn’t be able to pick up timetables there even if there were any.

Online information can still be a bit shaky due to the traffic commissioners still allowing short notice changes, so Metro don’t have 56 days available to pull everything together.
I thought the 56 days was dead and buried - didn't it change (to something like 42 or 70 days) some time ago?
 

Hophead

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If I remember correctly, Manchester have this (or at least strongly encourage it), and I thought West Yorks/Metro did too. Oxfordshire also used to encourage operators to keep to their tendered services change dates, but since they stopped supporting large numbers of services that seems to have fallen by the wayside. Do other areas also have this "encouragement"?

Brighton & Hove - since 1986. Brighton Corporation also adhered to the same dates before being taken over. Initially, 3 times a year then simplified to just April & September. Accompanied, of course with a comprehensive Bus Times book. There were occasional minor changes outside of the usual dates and, once, a service reduction in January.
 

RT4038

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I thought the 56 days was dead and buried - didn't it change (to something like 42 or 70 days) some time ago?
70, but Covid related variations have been allowed at 35. Short notice is still available if various critirea are met and LA agrees.
 

domcoop7

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In Greater Manchester, as you'd expect, the most work goes into City Centre stops. Out in the sticks, there's a bus shelter on the Wigan to Skelmersdale road at Orrell that has a map and timetable that's years out of date, referring to "Wigan Night Bus" services (which I think stopped in 2015?). They do update the flags to show service numbers / "not in use" properly though.

On a drive a few days ago through some Wigan suburbs, as far as I could tell (from the car) the smaller bus stops that have timetable cases don't seem to have timetables. One had an advert for the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport, another had a poster "How to Use the Tram" and another "Keeping Safe On Public Transport". As the nearest tram is 20 miles away, and the GM Transport Museum, whilst interesting is a bit, er, "niche", I can't see these posters as being of any use whatsoever.
 

duncombec

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Not sure if this fits within the thread remit but Blackpool seem pretty good, timetables seem to be changed promptly and on the trams, where services change with the seasons they seem spot on.

Having said that some of the other info is dated, I was on a tram the other day with fares information being displayed on a poster from around foru years ago and one of the trams is painted with on offer of £6 for all day travel while it is actually £5.20
It's a major urban area in Lancashire, so I'd say so! (I just didn't want to list every town). Interior posters do seem to be something of a letdown for a lot of operators: I travelled on a bus on Sunday which had been fully re-liveried and had seat covers changed, yet still had posters in the previous branding inside. I suppose having the more expensive price painted on the tram is better than the other way around!

Brighton & Hove - since 1986. Brighton Corporation also adhered to the same dates before being taken over. Initially, 3 times a year then simplified to just April & September. Accompanied, of course with a comprehensive Bus Times book. There were occasional minor changes outside of the usual dates and, once, a service reduction in January.
Brighton really does seem to do it well. I visited last September, and they seemed almost apologetic that they didn't have an updated map, and I essentially had to persuade the 'door duty' man at their travel shop that the older one was fine, as I just wanted to know roughly where I was going!
SPT area.

No printed publicity for bus nor train.
Have they stopped producing their "self printed" leaflets for tendered services then? Or is that just a Covid measure? Don't Scotrail produce the train times?

In Greater Manchester, as you'd expect, the most work goes into City Centre stops. Out in the sticks, there's a bus shelter on the Wigan to Skelmersdale road at Orrell that has a map and timetable that's years out of date, referring to "Wigan Night Bus" services (which I think stopped in 2015?). They do update the flags to show service numbers / "not in use" properly though.

On a drive a few days ago through some Wigan suburbs, as far as I could tell (from the car) the smaller bus stops that have timetable cases don't seem to have timetables. One had an advert for the Greater Manchester Museum of Transport, another had a poster "How to Use the Tram" and another "Keeping Safe On Public Transport". As the nearest tram is 20 miles away, and the GM Transport Museum, whilst interesting is a bit, er, "niche", I can't see these posters as being of any use whatsoever.
I have seem the Transport Museum advertised in shelters all over the conurbation, but they do seem to do that sort of thing. I seem to recall a "Places to Go" campaign some years ago, where random locations popped up with how to get there by bus.

Do Transport for Greater Manchester (TfGM) respond to complaints - is it just a case that it got forgotten once (twice, three times), and nobody has told them?
(Aside: we have a pair of bus stops near here that show up on the Council map, show up on Google, yet don't have a bus service, have never had a bus service, and don't actually exist in terms of markings or stop flags. They are also on a 50mph road with no access to the alleged locations unless you walk on the wrong side of the hedgerow!)
 

geoffk

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Devon does do really well in comparison to other shire counties. Noting that the stops only have Stagecoach numbers, is that for clarity (because of limited service on other routes), or because Stagecoach manage the stops on behalf of the council? Am I correct in thinking there are some services in Exeter city not operated by Stagecoach that are thus not covered by the DCC books?
There's no DCC book covering Exeter city services and, yes, there are three tendered city routes operated by Country Bus of Heathfield. These are what an ex-colleague used to call Heineken routes - they reach those parts other routes don't reach! Having said that, one of them runs hourly but between the peaks only. Most of the independent-operated rural services are infrequent, some only once or twice a week, apart from the two-hourly service to Moretonhampstead.
 

duncombec

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First experience in Nexus-land this weekend, so looking at this from a completely new perspective rather than being able to compare it with what may have gone before.

If I had to describe the Nexus offering in one word, it would be "underwhelming". Whilst the bus stop displays are functional, they do nothing to encourage you to use the bus. They are all in corporate red and black, with routes listed purely in numerical order, giving no precedence to frequency of operation or likelihood of use. As such, you have the bright colours of Go North East's X-lines services reduced down to what could best be described as "dull and boring". Routes are also listed individually, so to take the X84 and X85 to Hexham as an example, the two services are listed separately, requiring you to look in two places, albeit underneath each other, rather than having a composite timetable with both departures. Yes, they do serve different routes, but the ultimate destination is the same. It's a rather different situation to the 74, for example, which also serves Hexham but via a much longer route with nothing in common except the start and end points, and runs from the opposite end of Eldon Square.

The whole feel of the bus stations was run down and uncared for, regardless of size. Park Lane interchange at Sunderland was probably the best of the bunch, in that the toilets and retail facilities (the ever-present Greggs) were both open, and had a visible bus station inspector. The facility looked clean, recently updated, and had fairly regularly repeated information. Obviously the travel shop has closed (more anon), but even the closure notices managed to look cared for, rather than slapped up as an afterthought as they did elsewhere.

The others ranged from grim to dismal. Haymarket was the first one I came to, and after leaving the Metro station you have to work your way through the clouds of smoke from disinterested looking Arriva drivers, who use that end of the bus station as their smoking zone [that's not an implicit criticism of the drivers, they are entitled to their breaks, but it doesn't say "welcome to bus travel"]. The Arriva travel shop is closed, and when the lights are on you can see it has already been repurposed for various bits of driver information. The sticky-letters on backlit signs gave it a feel of last being refurbished in the 90s, and it generally had a feel of "has this seen a coat of paint since construction". It was open and airy, but just a bit dowdy. Eldon Square was similar - the where to board your bus posters are only at either end, which is unhelpful if you come through the shopping centre, whilst the toilets, by contrast, are in the shopping centre, which is unhelpful if you have a connection to make. Similar to Haymarket, the feel just seems a little down-at-heel. The inspector's office remained steadfastly empty whenever I went past, except for the empty leaflet racks presumably removed from the (closed) travelshop.

Gateshead and Four Lane Ends offered much of a muchness. Toilets: closed. Retail: closed. Travelshop: closed. Next stop departure screens: not working properly. cleanliness: poor. Ambience: grim. Four Lane Ends was cavernous, and you could see the handful of passengers milling around for the handful of buses like lost souls, perhaps more in hope than expectation. If there was any sort of where to board your bus poster, I didn't see it. Gateshead was better in terms of passenger numbers and buses, but again, the whole thing had an air of disinterest about it. A good deep clean, some paint where necessary, and improved signage would go a long way to helping - as might a walkway to stand N from it's opposite number, rather than expecting you to only cross at the bus station exit.

The issue is presumably funding - when isn't it - but do wonder if they'd spent even half the sum they spent on consultants for the franchising (?) proposals a few years ago had been spent on bus station care whether the ambience might be very different. Given the closure of the Nexus travelshops, it will be interesting to see what Go North East come up with to ensure customers, both existing and potential, can pick up their excellent (and apparently in much-demand) printed publicity: the rack at the Metrocentre is excellent, with buses on one side and County Durham tourist materials on the other.
 

Andyh82

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What's annoying about Eldon Square and Haymarket is that the leaflet racks were just on the concourse, there wasn't a Nexus travel shop, just someone used to wheel the racks out in the morning and wheel them away in the evening, and presumably stock them up occasionally. Apparently this is no longer possible.

And whereas Arriva and Stagecoach are no longer doing printed timetables, GNE are, and besides the small selection at MetroCentre, the only way to get hold of them is to travel on every single service they operate and pick one up each time!
 

NorthernSpirit

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Noting the variety of outcomes in the West Yorks Metro area, who is responsible for the displays? Does WY Metro handle everything, or is it deputised to the local councils/operators?
I've noticed that WYCA, the West Yorkshire Combined Authority have been a bit flexible when it comes to the displays since in Leeds and Huddersfield they've allowed First and Transdev to use their own style displays where as before it was the genric red cases.

Personally if each council had to provide the displays instead for Metro, I can guarrentee you that Calderdale Council would simply print whatever is avaibale from the operators own website and stick them at the main stops elesewhere wouldn't get anything.
 

Ken H

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I've noticed that WYCA, the West Yorkshire Combined Authority have been a bit flexible when it comes to the displays since in Leeds and Huddersfield they've allowed First and Transdev to use their own style displays where as before it was the genric red cases.

Personally if each council had to provide the displays instead for Metro, I can guarrentee you that Calderdale Council would simply print whatever is avaibale from the operators own website and stick them at the main stops elesewhere wouldn't get anything.
It always seems daft to me the councils make timetable leaflets/pdf's etc for bus services when the operator has made their own. Why do that?
 

NorthernSpirit

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Printed materials were supposed to be being reduced in some form in 2020, [snip] It isn’t currently known what if anything will be reintroduced. Currently only Transdev services (although for the pedants I should point out there are a tiny number that don’t have a timetable and at only Team Pennine D1 has one due to them having only taken over last week) have printed timetables. Arriva have also closed the Travel Centre they ran on Metro’s behalf in Wakefield, so you wouldn’t be able to pick up timetables there even if there were any.
Metro were suppose to be reintroducing printed timetables in a new format and in lesser numbers than previously, it seems that if you know the route number and operator the Travel Centre staff will print out a copy directly from the operators own website, otherwise its the bold blotchy mess from Metro's website. The only thing that Metro have printed so far is the Leeds Core Network map and hopefully the "corridor" route timetables will follow, just don't expect there to be anything for Calderdale, Kikrlees, Bradford or Wakefield.

Speaking of Wakefield, hasn't an independent coach operator taken over the former Travel Shop? If so and maybe with a little push from them, they could have some printed information provided by Arriva, Stagecoach, Waterson's and Ross Travel - even if its just photocopied print outs from the operators websites, its better than nothing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

It always seems daft to me the councils make timetable leaflets/pdf's etc for bus services when the operator has made their own. Why do that?
I did bring this up with Metro a few years ago when Arriva printed their own timetables for services 254/255/X25, 268, 209/219/229, 220/221/222 and maybe one or two others and what did Metro do - they duplicated them which in my view was wasting taxpayers money on something that the operator has decided to supply and Metro should allow the operator to supply their own stocks to the PTE, the same applied for Stagecoach Hull's X62 where again Metro duplicated apart from once where they did listen to me by actually stocking Stagecoach's own publicity.

The last time I called Metro out over the duplication / wasting taxpayers money was over printing timetable publicity for Connexionsbuses and South Pennine Community Transport (who I will add already supply their own). I did suggest that Metro should only print timetables for those operators who cannot afford to do it themselves e.g. Stotts, Station Coaches and TLC Travel and also for Dalesbus. Whereas First West Yorkshire should be encouraged to supply Metro with their own 18-accross format for Metro to print on First West Yorkshire's behalf for the more core routes, the secondary routes (those marked grey on First's maps) should be the basic PDF's which can be printed off First's own websites that should be downsized to A5 with the contact information added electronically.

Eventually I can see Metro handing over the none Leeds stuff to the various councils to provide instead.
 
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