First West Yorkshire & York discussion

[Whisky Papa]

I'm slightly surprised this hasn't been mentioned here already (and sincere apologies if I've missed it anywhere), but First have reworked the timetables for the Calder Valley services from 25th July. I know the removal of the 588 from Rochdale to Stansfield has been mentioned on the Transdev thread, so presumably this was the spur to finally tidy up the complete mess that had been operating. So, also gone is the Todmorden - Rochdale rump of the 589, and instead we have a half-hourly 590 Halifax - Todmorden - Rochdale. The hourly 592 Halifax - Todmorden - Burnley is joined by an hourly 591 variation, operating by the lower part of Red Lees Road which I believe has been unserved since the 589 was severed in Todmorden around 18 months ago.

So the half-hourly service from Todmorden to Burnley is restored, which is a huge relief to us personally as we have a vulnerable family member living along that road. Todmorden to Halifax remains at a combined fifteen minute headway, which is probably about right - every ten minutes used to be a nice bonus, but was probably not realistic economically. The Sunday timetable reverts to a regular pattern, compared with the previous version where every three hours the times dropped back a further ten minutes.

Just when I thought I could (for once) offer nothing but praise, I still have to query why on Earth the Burnley-bound 591 alone has gained a timing point at "Burnley Road Brier Hey Lane" (just E of Mytholmroyd) on the online timetables? No doubt the origin of this has something to do with the adjacent Calder High School, although I'm not sure exactly what.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The developer was required to fund the bus as part of the planning consents.

It also had a failed attempt to extend it through to Garforth which lasted a few months before being cut back.

It has never managed to be advertised well enough to make it worthwhile as it could be busy on the existing high frequency area with those wanting a quicker journey if publicised well enough.

Sadly First West Yorkshire won't print their own publicity (unlike West of England, Worcester, Berkshire, etc) then they wonder why no one is using the service - you've got to promote it otherwise it goes to the wall and by promoting it I don't mean some little square thing on their website but actual, physical, you-can-hold-it-in-hand leaflet with the timetable and route map.

Doesn't help that the usual excuse is 'well Metro prints them', yes but a black/white and red timetable with no route map doesn't entice me to go and visit the Thorpe Park new town. A glossy three way fold of A4 with a route map and ticket promotions would.

 

[Deerfold]

I'm slightly surprised this hasn't been mentioned here already (and sincere apologies if I've missed it anywhere), but First have reworked the timetables for the Calder Valley services from 25th July. I know the removal of the 588 from Rochdale to Stansfield has been mentioned on the Transdev thread, so presumably this was the spur to finally tidy up the complete mess that had been operating. So, also gone is the Todmorden - Rochdale rump of the 589, and instead we have a half-hourly 590 Halifax - Todmorden - Rochdale. The hourly 592 Halifax - Todmorden - Burnley is joined by an hourly 591 variation, operating by the lower part of Red Lees Road which I believe has been unserved since the 589 was severed in Todmorden around 18 months ago.

It looks like the 588 contract was withdrawn due to unreliability.

 

[Whisky Papa]

It looks like the 588 contract was withdrawn due to unreliability.

Reliability has been a bit patchy on the Tod routes as a whole of late from what we are told by family and friends, but hardly surprising in current circumstances.

I wouldn't want to speak for the current crop of drivers, but Stansfield was an extremely unpopular location when I was driving. At one time Todmorden garage briefly gained a daytime working on the Rochdale - Stansfield 457. It was all covered by rest-day work, but I only ever volunteered for it once!

 

[superkev]

With the Bradford clean air zone looming, 31 Dec 21 I think, I'm surprised there hasn't been much about replacing or modifying First Bradford's quite substantial fleet of older buses. Halifax and Huddersfield, which has an even older fleet, also visit Bradford.
Perhaps they will transfer a number of Leeds "green" buses in which could produce a political stir.
I seem to remember reading First Bradford has around 60 non compliant buses but this may be inaccurate.
K

 

[Volvodart]

I think they have been modifying their Euro4 buses to meet the emissions standard, or at least made a start to it.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think they have been modifying their Euro4 buses to meet the emissions standard, or at least made a start to it.

Wonder if Leeds is due another tranche of new vehicles allowing B9s to move?

 

[Andyh82]

Wonder if Leeds is due another tranche of new vehicles allowing B9s to move?

The 284 new vehicles is still a current commitment - nothing to do with the Leeds green air zone being abandoned. Recent West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) papers say that First are hoping to fulfil it “early 2022”.

 

[bluenoxid]

The change of direction on the Leeds CAZ will not help with a timely implementation. I recall Leeds having an exceptions process if replacement vehicles were lined up, so I wonder if Bradford will also have the same and if the bus operators can negotiate something.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The 284 new vehicles is still a current commitment - nothing to do with the Leeds green air zone being abandoned. Recent West Yorkshire Combined Authority (WYCA) papers say that First are hoping to fulfil it “early 2022”.

I wasn’t suggesting it was Leeds CAZ related. The 284 figure was due by 2020 (?) and there is clearly some deferral so wondering if another tranche is due in 2021 (enabling a cascade to Bradford)?

 

[Andyh82]

I wasn’t suggesting it was Leeds CAZ related. The 284 figure was due by 2020 (?) and there is clearly some deferral so wondering if another tranche is due in 2021 (enabling a cascade to Bradford)?

Yes that’s kind of what I was answering, that the remainder of the 284 is still due (rather than not now happening due to the CAZ being cancelled) which will enable cascades, although some or all of that may actually be in 2022

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes that’s kind of what I was answering, that the remainder of the 284 is still due (rather than not now happening due to the CAZ being cancelled) which will enable cascades, although some or all of that may actually be in 2022

There does seem to be a misconception (not shared by you or myself) that the CAZ was a factor in the 284 when it is actually a total separate commitment, First's investment to match those for various bus priority and other improvements.

Don't know how many are outstanding but seem to recall it's 100 to 120? Certainly, there may be enough to enable sufficient B9 cascades

 

[APT618S]

Don't know how many are outstanding but seem to recall it's 100 to 120? Certainly, there may be enough to enable sufficient B9 cascades

The 2020 First Bus Fleet book by British Bus Publishing listed Streetdecks with fleet numbers 35638-35728 (91 in total) all for Hunslet Park. These were on order as no registrations were quoted. These are not listed in the 2021 edition.

 

[cnjb8]

The 2020 First Bus Fleet book by British Bus Publishing listed Streetdecks with fleet numbers 35638-35728 (91 in total) all for Hunslet Park. These were on order as no registrations were quoted. These are not listed in the 2021 edition.

Do you know what source that British Bus Publishing use?

 

[APT618S]

Do you know what source that British Bus Publishing use?

Sorry, I do not know for vehicles on order.

 

[cnjb8]

Sorry, I do not know for vehicles on order.

Ah that’s ok, I imagine they’ve predicted the fleet numbers based on how many are arriving

 

[Andyh82]

There does seem to be a misconception (not shared by you or myself) that the CAZ was a factor in the 284 when it is actually a total separate commitment, First's investment to match those for various bus priority and other improvements.

Don't know how many are outstanding but seem to recall it's 100 to 120? Certainly, there may be enough to enable sufficient B9 cascades

There have been 179 Streetdecks and 9 Yutongs, so that will leave 96 to come.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

There have been 179 Streetdecks and 9 Yutongs, so that will leave 96 to come.

A little better than I thought but not far off - thanks for that. Whatever might come and when, I still don't think that there's anything to concern anyone that First won't meet the timeline for the Bradford CAZ.

 

[APT618S]

There have been 179 Streetdecks and 9 Yutongs, so that will leave 96 to come.

There are 5 BYD double deckers due/at Hunslet Park (HP), (Fleet Nos 38401-405) so that would agree with the original 91 Streetdecks that I mentioned in a previous post.

 

[cnjb8]

There are 5 BYD double deckers due/at Hunslet Park (HP), (Fleet Nos 38401-405) so that would agree with the original 91 Streetdecks that I mentioned in a previous post.

They’ve been delivered.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

There are 5 BYD double deckers due/at Hunslet Park (HP), (Fleet Nos 38401-405) so that would agree with the original 91 Streetdecks that I mentioned in a previous post.

These five will be for the Stourton Park and Ride.

Other than the 56, 19/19A and the 91, what other routes in Leeds still use the older fleet? Could the remaining 91 Streetdecks be for these services?

 

[superkev]

I think they (bradford) have been modifying their Euro4 buses to meet the emissions standard, or at least made a start to it.

Looking back at some info in the local paper it reported to June 2021 Bradford had 59% of its fleet CAZ Euro6 compliant with Leeds 76% , Calderdale 58%, Wakefield 50% and Kirklees a lowley 38%.
I dont think spending serious money on older vehicles with limited life remaing is viable so im sure First will despatch them somewhere else.
Some of those shiny new Leeds buses to Bradford perhaps
K

 

[Volvodart]

First are getting paid to do the conversions; it is probably not costing them that much.

 

[mic]

It has not been reported so far that First Manchester 37557 MX09HUO is on loan to First York. 37455 MX58EAK was meant to be there but failed on route.

 

[317 forever]

These five will be for the Stourton Park and Ride.

Other than the 56, 19/19A and the 91, what other routes in Leeds still use the older fleet? Could the remaining 91 Streetdecks be for these services?

Route 9 uses older Eclipses and route 40 still uses 04-reg Volvo B7TL - Geminis.

 

[M60lad]

While First Manchester 37557 has gone over to York its quite ironic that I believe a few drivers from First Manchester are currently on loan there as well so might just end up driving the bus they actually brought up.

 

[Volvodart]

I think they now share the same managing director.

 

[Nailseabus]

Can anyone give me information regarding the disposal of 66352 MV02 VEF? I have discovered that it was withdrawn in April 2020 but its disposal to whom and when alludes me.

 

[Whiteway215]

Can anyone give me information regarding the disposal of 66352 MV02 VEF. I have discovered that it was withdrawn in April 2020 but its disposal to whom and when alludes me.

According to the West Midlands in Photos website which gives First disposals on a monthly basis, 66352 ‘left the fleet’ in the month ending 28 May 2020.
I believe the fleet movements they provide are based on First’s official lists.

The PSV Circle states ‘gone May 2020.’

 

[Nailseabus]

Many thanks for your prompt reply.