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158 Bogs
- Thread starter yorksrob
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There are only ten such 158s, the former West Yorkshire ones - unfortunately they don't get limited to shorter distance workings - maybe they should be - but don't most Northern trains other than 158s and 170s only have one toilet? If anything, the 158/9s are consistent with most of Northern's other units, hence why they haven't installed the extra toilet.
I'd have thought the most sensible thing would be to shove the extra bog in to get a "uniform fleet" (which seems to be the be all and end all nowadays).
Yes, but it isn't hard to think of another way to get a uniform fleet that probably costs less money to implement.
Clearly, no change is likely to be the cheapest option here. How about people just see that there is a 9 in the fourth digit of the unit number and they know it only has one toilet.
Indeed. Uniform fleets obviously aren't high priority where passenger comfort is concerned !
Given they are likely to be next in line for replacement, there seems little point in undertaking such significant works.
Built between '89-92, so already 30 years old, which in DMU terms is nearing their end of life. Unlikely to do another 10 years.
So I can't forsee significant work being done on them.
Where's the money coming from?
Unfortunately it wouldn't be a uniform fleet though - due to the age of the original fittings, you'd end up with a toilet that was non-standard to the rest of the fleet, in all liklihood.
Given that 158 toilets are generally pretty reliable, I don't really see how such significant expenditure on a 30yr old fleet could be justified.
Most of them are the new standard suction type anyway, so it would be an off the shelf fitting.
I'd imagine it is still going to cost the best part of £200k to fit ten toilets though, given the need to include tanks and other changes. Then there is down time to actually do the work.
Failed Unit
Established Member
I wonder how much it saved them compared to the standard build?
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
I'm not certain that cost saving was the main motivation, but it almost certainly played a part. WYPTE initially wanted an additional ten class 155 units to match the seven they had, but Leyland refused to reopen the production line. BREL stepped in and offered ten "no frills" versions of the 158 which were still under construction at the time.
When you compare it to how much has been spent in putting CET's in all the fleets, getting these 159's up to standard will be chicken feed.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
One thing you could do is form some 3-car units by splitting double-bogged units and putting half in between these 2-car sets, meaning you would get a load of 3-car units with 2 bogs*, which is what proper 3-car units have anyway.
* Obviously some with two accessible ones and some with one accessible and one small, but that doesn't overly matter as they take up the same amount of coach length in 158s.
* Obviously some with two accessible ones and some with one accessible and one small, but that doesn't overly matter as they take up the same amount of coach length in 158s.
'Proper' three car 158s had four toilet cubicles with two in the middle car - however, on the 159/0s, one was removed at the time of the 158 to 159 conversion, on the 159/1s one of the cubicles was panelled over and I think the door handle has simply been removed on one toilet on the Northern three car units. I haven't been on 158798 for a while to know what GWR did.
The middle car is effectively designed as if it was made up of two inner ends the 57xxx vehicle.
No the middle cars are bespoke. They are basically driving cars with the cab replaced by an inner end, shifting the external door slightly and reducing saloon space by one vertical luggage stack width. You’ll notice slight differences in space in the saloon at either end where one end is standard but the other has less pillar where the vertical stack usually sits (a single large luggage stack was fitted from new taking up the whole window on one side).
They also needed to have circuit breakers and an air con cupboard as well as a pressure gauge.
These centre coaches are far more than just a non driving end cut and shut as many people believe they are. The same applies to the 144 centre cars.
But PRM and tanks were required by legislation. Given the huge financial black hole the industry finds itself in, someone is going to have to pay for modifications like these - and given the current attitude of the treasury I can't see the DfT having any funding for changes like these that aren't really that necessary.
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