An extra HS2/NPR chord to relieve Castlefield?

[HST43257]

Post HS2/NPR, I see Castlefield still having too much of a mix of short and long distance services due to only some problems being solved in the current plans. A particular problem for me lies with the Manchester Airport to Cumbria and Scotland services. I'm guessing these will still be taking routes through congested places like Salford and Bolton or Eccles, impacting severely on reliability.

What I'm proposing is this: The ability for a service to leave Man Pic High Speed towards Man Airport High Speed, then use a new chord between the 2 legs of HS2 Phase 2b West, and still ideally match journey times from Manchester centre to Wigan and Preston in a way that conflicts with no local trains in Manchester and still serves the Airport, in fact better than before.

Looking at it, I can see why it may be impractical for the Cumbria service - not sure Barrow and Windermere would be suited to a 200m HS2 train, not to mention the issues around places like Golborne, given the fact that extra services would be needed unless the Cumbria still went that way. But I do think I could see it as a solution for the Manchester to Scotland WCML service.

I do get that losing the Scotland service isn't good for Bolton, but I believe that relieving Castlefield is a bigger need.

Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

 

[The Planner]

Post HS2/NPR, I see Castlefield still having too much of a mix of short and long distance services due to only some problems being solved in the current plans. A particular problem for me lies with the Manchester Airport to Cumbria and Scotland services. I'm guessing these will still be taking routes through congested places like Salford and Bolton or Eccles, impacting severely on reliability.

What I'm proposing is this: The ability for a service to leave Man Pic High Speed towards Man Airport High Speed, then use a new chord between the 2 legs of HS2 Phase 2b West, and still ideally match journey times from Manchester centre to Wigan and Preston in a way that conflicts with no local trains in Manchester and still serves the Airport, in fact better than before.

Looking at it, I can see why it may be impractical for the Cumbria service - not sure Barrow and Windermere would be suited to a 200m HS2 train, not to mention the issues around places like Golborne, given the fact that extra services would be needed unless the Cumbria still went that way. But I do think I could see it as a solution for the Manchester to Scotland WCML service.

I do get that losing the Scotland service isn't good for Bolton, but I believe that relieving Castlefield is a bigger need.

Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

Was in the original consultation plans, a triangle/delta junction was going to be put in around Bucklow Hill/J8 of the M56. I am pretty sure one of the depots was going to be there too.

 

[Purple Orange]

Post HS2/NPR, I see Castlefield still having too much of a mix of short and long distance services due to only some problems being solved in the current plans. A particular problem for me lies with the Manchester Airport to Cumbria and Scotland services. I'm guessing these will still be taking routes through congested places like Salford and Bolton or Eccles, impacting severely on reliability.

What I'm proposing is this: The ability for a service to leave Man Pic High Speed towards Man Airport High Speed, then use a new chord between the 2 legs of HS2 Phase 2b West, and still ideally match journey times from Manchester centre to Wigan and Preston in a way that conflicts with no local trains in Manchester and still serves the Airport, in fact better than before.

Looking at it, I can see why it may be impractical for the Cumbria service - not sure Barrow and Windermere would be suited to a 200m HS2 train, not to mention the issues around places like Golborne, given the fact that extra services would be needed unless the Cumbria still went that way. But I do think I could see it as a solution for the Manchester to Scotland WCML service.

I do get that losing the Scotland service isn't good for Bolton, but I believe that relieving Castlefield is a bigger need.

Any thoughts and ideas are appreciated.

Although that chord is both in and out of plans, I suspect that there is a good chance of the chord coming in to play.

 

[Glenn1969]

Although that chord is both in and out of plans, I suspect that there is a good chance of the chord coming in to play.

Not sure how if as suspected there is no new build NPR

 

[Philip]

Would a chord between Ardwick and the Phillip's Park line not be a better option? They could rebuild the old redundant viaduct south east of Piccadilly Station to allow a line to branch off and then join the Phillip's Park and Ashton lines to run west into Victoria. That way Bolton, Salford and Chorley can still be served, along with a new direct link from Victoria.

 

[Bald Rick]

Not sure how if as suspected there is no new build NPR

Suspected by you....

 

[HST43257]

Would a chord between Ardwick and the Phillip's Park line not be a better option? They could rebuild the old redundant viaduct south east of Piccadilly Station to allow a line to branch off and then join the Phillip's Park and Ashton lines to run west into Victoria. That way Bolton, Salford and Chorley can still be served, along with a new direct link from Victoria.

But then you miss out on Airport. For me it really is just a Bolton Vs Airport scenario, and I think Airport has more overall benefit.

 

[HSTEd]

Ultimately the best chord I can see for adding to HS2 would be one from the south end of Manchester airport onto the Mid Cheshire line.

Combined with an extension of Metrolink to wherever the chord joins the line, you could achieve the objective of serving the airport and going to Picadilly without going through the Castlefield corridor for North Wales and other destinations reachable via Crewe. Also saving Mid Cheshire line paths via Stockport.

 

[snowball]

Was in the original consultation plans, a triangle/delta junction was going to be put in around Bucklow Hill/J8 of the M56. I am pretty sure one of the depots was going to be there too.

I believe that chord was not intended for passenger services but only for ECS movements between Manchester and the originally proposed rolling stock depot south of Wigan. When the depot was moved south, the chord was dropped from the plans.

 

[Purple Orange]

Not sure how if as suspected there is no new build NPR

The chord wouldn’t touch anything to do with NPR, as it would enable trains to run from the Scotland bound HS2 line on to the Manchester bound HS2 line.