Why does no one hate First?

[YesToHS2]

I can't quite forgive First bus for cancelling my bus to work with only 2 weeks notice, Arriva did step in but they also gave up after 12 months. First bus and First train seem poles apart.

 

[NSE]

I use FCC trains on the GN section frequently and I must say the Cambridge Fasts which are half hourly, even off peak are often packed. More so the one from Kings Lynn, but its always one 365. I think even off peak there is often a demand for 8 carriages. I also disagree with the idea of connecting the two. I travel to various destinations on the Brighton Mainline from Cambridge/St. Neots and I travel on the Victoria Line to Victoria and take the Southern services. I find the Thameslink stock nowhere near the 377s and LU is unbelieveably quick in comparison to the core section.
But I have no experience of other First Franchises, but not to keen on Fcc.

 

[sprinterguy]

Over time, there have been quite a few posts berating First on this forum. However, it is much easier to berate Crosscountry as they are a single franchise operating a fairly uniform fleet of trains that few people like (Voyagers). It would be difficult to complain about First’s rail activities overall, as they have multiple franchises that carry out widely varying functions, with an extremely varied train fleet.

Personally, I’m not keen on First. They are a distinctly average, mediocre bus operator which makes me sceptical of them getting involved with operating rail franchises. At the present time, it is perhaps difficult to complain about Firsts’ performance as they have witnessed a great deal of improvement in the last few years. Though, if you look at my examples below, it would appear that an improvement in service is visible because at the start of a number of First’s franchises they offered such a shocking level of service that they couldn’t possibly sink any lower before they started to get better, so after the first couple of years, any signs that things are looking up seems like a vast improvement!

First Great Western four or more years ago was a complete shambles as concerns customer service, train reliability and capacity, both on the Intercity and local network. Since then, the Intercity HST fleet has undergone an extensive refit, with the carriages being completely refurbed and the power cars fitted with new MTU engines that have increased their reliability. I feel that the local services inherited from Wessex Trains have been consolidated and now offer a more reliable service than was the case when First took on this side of the franchise.

Scotrail is an excellent franchise, but I feel that this has always been the case ever since BR days through National Express’ tenure at the beginning of privatisation, and it was National Express who made the big investment in rolling stock (Turbostars and 334s) and commitment to other network improvements. In BR days Scotrail had also benefitted fairly recently from extensive Sprinterisation with a big fleet of 158s (Though whether this was an improvement from the mk 3 loco hauled rakes is debatable), so by the time First came along Scotrail had an extensive fleet of modern trains. First have merely maintained the status quo with this franchise I feel.

At Transpennine Express, when the franchise was split from Arriva Trains Northern and given to First they ran the 158 fleet into the ground prior to the delivery of the 185s, seeming not to care about maintaining their existing train fleet and concentrating on getting hold of their shiny new Desiros. I remember a time under Northern Spirit when the Transpennine 158s were very pleasant trains to travel on, whilst seemingly under First ownership they were permanently scruffy and uncared for. Following that, ANY investment was welcome, so the arrival of 185s on the majority of TPE services has been a huge boon! I really like the 185s, and the quality of service seems to have improved in line with the introduction of the new trains, so these days I’m very happy with Firsts’ operation of Transpennine.

 

[YesToHS2]

I hadn't realised that FNW has all but gone now replaced by TPE.

On the subject of trains now I come to think of it the 158s were very scruffy, uncared for and then the nice shiny 175s came along and they kept those very clean. I think it helped that 175 fleet came with it's own multi million pound depot in Chester though.

 

[sprinterguy]

I hadn't realised that FNW has all but gone now replaced by TPE.

On the subject of trains now I come to think of it the 158s were very scruffy, uncared for and then the nice shiny 175s came along and they kept those very clean. I think it helped that 175 fleet came with it's own multi million pound depot in Chester though.

Most of FNW was swallowed up by Northern, there were only a few corridors that remained under First operation and passed from North Western to Transpennine. Manchester to Windermere, and to Barrow, are a couple of major examples.

I think it makes sense to deliver new trains as a package, with a dedicated new depot and quite often train maintenance carried out by teams from the company that built the trains. You would hope it would lead to better reliability figures than you’d expect from trying to shoehorn a new train fleet into an existing depot on the network alongside the existing train types serviced there (Though the poor entry into service of the 175s makes you wonder). Transpennine Express of course now has expensive new dedicated depots at Ardwick and York for the 185s.

 

[YesToHS2]

Oh yeah the 175s when they first came into service were riddled with faults, doors not opening, very poor aircon and always breaking down. I have always like 175s thought, attractive trains when in the FNW livery. Had a good amount of leg room also.

 

[Greenback]

I hate First. Their buses in Llanelli and Swansea are expensive and unreliable. I don;t like the coffin seats in their HSt's, there were no seat back tables in the 158's on many journeys down to portsmouth and Southampton, and their penalty fares schemes are a joke!

 

[chris89]

My experience with First has been fine, Even though mostly Scotrail now. But with Arriva & First i hate the buses due to timings, and cancelling due to stupid reasons etc.

 

[Aictos]

I hate First. Their buses in Llanelli and Swansea are expensive and unreliable.

I hate Stagecoach in Peterborough for exactly the same reasons because some of the services being advertised as a 10 minute frequency certainly are not and they're expensive.

 

[rail-britain]

Scotrail is an excellent franchise, but I feel that this has always been the case ever since BR days through National Express’ tenure at the beginning of privatisation, and it was National Express who made the big investment in rolling stock (Turbostars and 334s) and commitment to other network improvements. In BR days Scotrail had also benefitted fairly recently from extensive Sprinterisation with a big fleet of 158s (Though whether this was an improvement from the mk 3 loco hauled rakes is debatable), so by the time First came along Scotrail had an extensive fleet of modern trains. First have merely maintained the status quo with this franchise I feel.

The investment that NatEx made was by way of offset from DoT (at the time)
Overall NatEx made very little improvments or changes
However, there were improvements and changes in timetables and reliability
Equally, the same with First (although two of latest proposed timetable changes were not implemented)
I tend to agree, the biggest change came under BR with sprinterisation, in preparation for privitisation
The latest investments are all through Transport Scotland, so First have very little investment in this either
However, the next franchise will be of interest, as the subsidy remains the same but with fleet improvements to be included (excluding new rolling stock for electrification provided through offset)

 

[TGV]

Forgive me if I'm repeating something here but I can't be arsed reading 3 pages of it.

Just to respond : First Capital Connect do a good job on the old WAGN route. It has issues from time to time, but I use it every day and most of the major problems that cause nasty delays are infrastructure or suicides. Neither of which are FCC's fault.

I will however say that I've never seen a "First" livery that I like. All that pink and purple... I keep thinking they're trying to make their trains look like busses. Yeah yeah, corporate identity, but they still look stupid in my opinion, but if that's the worst I've got to say about them then they must be doing OK!

 

[jon0844]

And no First hasn't bribed me to release such statement, I'm perfectly happy working for FCC.

As a customer of FCC, and even one that has had a few problems with FCC of late, I can still say that overall they run things on the GN route brilliantly.

The recent passenger information problem is quite major, and I am very disappointed at the lack of progress in fixing it, and we've had a number of days with delays due to slippery rails, but nevertheless the trains are clean, generally reliable, well timetabled (such that you can usually get a seat, and will be even more likely to do so come December) and the staff are quite friendly - bar the odd RPI with a grudge!

As TGV says above, most of their problems are not down to them. A dirty train at night will only be because it was jam packed with kids who had a party on there, or commuters filling the 313 seats and luggage racks with Metro/ES (and they do employ cleaning teams that are very thorough and efficient, but can't do every single turnaround as it would cause delays). Add in suicides or someone sneezing and bringing down the wires, and FCC (and other operators on the ECML) do well.

I can't really speak much for TL, but I do think there are inherent problems on the route that cause problems that are outside of FCC's control, but of course - people will seek to blame them even if the problems come down to the rolling stock or the infrastructure. Sadly, I fear these problems will continue for many years to come - especially if they ever try to implement 20-24 trains per hour through the core.

If it wasn't First, it would be another company getting the grief. I am sure First just grin and bear it as they have no choice - they have to take the rough (TL) with the smooth (GN) as they come as a package.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

First Scotrail.

Best TOC in the UK.