Diesel Loco engineers/fitters

[TGV]

Any of you on this site? Please make yourselves known - I work on AC stock, but had a few questions of a technical maintenance nature for Diesel locos.
Cheers.

 

[No Fault Found]

Hello Sir

More DMU but i know a little about locos

 

[TGV]

Thanks. I may have the answers I need from a friend who used to work on 56s and 59s but I'd be interested in hearing from you too.

Oil changes - are they determined by scientific analysis looking for water and fuel content and other contaminants?

On larger engines used on locos the pistons, cranks, camshafts and cylinder liners are usually left for a large proportion of the engines life (often only being replaced at a mid life overhaul) but what about dmu engines? Smaller but higher revving but perhaps a harder duty cycle.

Thanks.

 

[KingboyD]

How much oil does the average diesel loco take?? Most oil I have to fill an engine with would be a sprinter van at around 7L!

 

[rail-britain]

Oil changes - are they determined by scientific analysis looking for water and fuel content and other contaminants?

On larger engines used on locos the pistons, cranks, camshafts and cylinder liners are usually left for a large proportion of the engines life (often only being replaced at a mid life overhaul) but what about dmu engines? Smaller but higher revving but perhaps a harder duty cycle

The oil change intervals vary quite dramatically between diesel engine types

For diesel locomotives, such as a Class 37 or Class 47, this would be examined at the C exam typically once every six months
During a D exam new filters would be fitted and if the oil was in poor condition replaced
The total oil capacity is typically between 500 and 750 litres

For DMUs, such as a Class 156, this would rarely be examined
The Cummins engine is a 14 litre turbo diesel, very similar to their existing road equivalent, with oil changes every six months
The total oil capacity is about 35 litres

 

[TGV]

The oil change intervals vary quite dramatically between diesel engine types

For diesel locomotives, such as a Class 37 or Class 47, this would be examined at the C exam typically once every six months
During a D exam new filters would be fitted and if the oil was in poor condition replaced
The total oil capacity is typically between 500 and 750 litres

For DMUs, such as a Class 156, this would rarely be examined
The Cummins engine is a 14 litre turbo diesel, very similar to their existing road equivalent, with oil changes every six months
The total oil capacity is about 35 litres

Have you got experience of these locos? Do they use 2 stage oil filters like the 59/66/67's? If so, does your maintenance regime include the option to change/recirculate or top up the oil based on that alone? The reason I ask is a major factor in the GE EMD engines is based largely on chemical analysis of the oil as well as (or more than) simply than hours logged.

The 14 litre Cummins engine is used on a few heavy-haul trucks, but it's a very different duty cycle there.

 

[beatbox]

class 142 and 156 units have the oil and filters renewed every B exam which is 21000 miles or about 6-8 weeks.

Engines like the Paxman Valenta got oil samples taken every 3 days,Grand Central take every 2 days and the results will determine if an oil change is required or if internal engine parts are breaking down.eg rising aluminium piston damage,chrome liners.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
DMU engines like Cummins get overhauled after 500k miles(class 156/158) 400k class 142. Midlife 200k or 250k, injectors are renewed,compressor cylinder head and engine water pump are also renewed. all other parts should last untill overhaul.

 

[Eng274]

i'm not a loco engineer/fitter, nor do i know the intricacies of oil changing/inspection, but i do know a little about engines. The principal factor between the 2 engine types is that one is 2-stroke and the other is 4-stroke. 2 strokes by their nature consume more oil than 4 stroke, which is why they will probably have a more fixed maintenance regime (4-strokes only need topped up, or repaired when over-consuming).

I don't know the period between oil changes for the standard 14 litre sprinter unit, it probably depends how hard a life the unit has in service. For example, a 156 working a stopping commuter service e.g. Liverpool Lime Street - Manchester Ox Rd will probably spend most of the trip at max revs due to being stop-start constantly, and therefore seldom reaching the speed to drop revs in the torque converter circuit of the transmission, where the revs increase proportionate to the train speed, like a car. A semi-fast service which spends more time at decent speeds but not thrashed will see better oil economy.

Of course, I could be completely wrong...feel free to correct me!


As an aside, I read somewhere that the TL11 engines on early Pacers were horrendous for catching fire when in stations due to soot build up in the cylinders catching fire - it turned out the TL11s didn't like idleing for long periods!

 

[beatbox]

A well worn engine (high mileage) will consume a lot more oil, for example the last Paxman valenta engines in service required approx 20 gallons of oil each depot visit,which was every 2 nights !

 

[asylumxl]

A well worn engine (high mileage) will consume a lot more oil, for example the last Paxman valenta engines in service required approx 20 gallons of oil each depot visit,which was every 2 nights !

What about the 180s?

 

[No Fault Found]

Thanks. I may have the answers I need from a friend who used to work on 56s and 59s but I'd be interested in hearing from you too.

Oil changes - are they determined by scientific analysis looking for water and fuel content and other contaminants?

On the DMU''s i have worked on they are done on the A exam cycle which is 20000 miles regardless. On MTU'd Class 43 power cars i believe they are done on engine hours exam cycle. I believe that is 1000 hours but not certain.
Oil samples are generally only sent to Scientifics if there is reason to believe component failure, i.e looking for metal particles. Excess fuel or coolant is only addressed if it is obviously noticeable by eye.

On larger engines used on locos the pistons, cranks, camshafts and cylinder liners are usually left for a large proportion of the engines life (often only being replaced at a mid life overhaul) but what about dmu engines? Smaller but higher revving but perhaps a harder duty cycle.

I'm pretty sure it is the same for DMU's. The Cummins QSK19 has an overhaul at 17500 hours and as far as i'm aware it is basically new heads and turbo. Probably new water pump, oil pump etc but the crank, pistons, liners etc aren't renewed unless found to be worn.
The MTU engine is also the same i believe with basically heads and turbos being changed.

 

[TGV]

Thanks "NFF"! Useful stuff.

 

[paul1609]

On the DMU''s i have worked on they are done on the A exam cycle which is 20000 miles regardless. On MTU'd Class 43 power cars i believe they are done on engine hours exam cycle. I believe that is 1000 hours but not certain.
Oil samples are generally only sent to Scientifics if there is reason to believe component failure, i.e looking for metal particles. Excess fuel or coolant is only addressed if it is obviously noticeable by eye.



I'm pretty sure it is the same for DMU's. The Cummins QSK19 has an overhaul at 175000 hours and as far as i'm aware it is basically new heads and turbo. Probably new water pump, oil pump etc but the crank, pistons, liners etc aren't renewed unless found to be worn.
The MTU engine is also the same i believe with basically heads and turbos being changed.

175000 are you sure? Thats nearly 20 years constant running!

In the Navy our Paxman Valentas are lifed at 24,000 when they are returned to the manufacturer for major overhaul.

 

[No Fault Found]

175000 are you sure? Thats nearly 20 years constant running!

In the Navy our Paxman Valentas are lifed at 24,000 when they are returned to the manufacturer for major overhaul.

You're quite right, it's 17500 hours, not 175000 as originally written.

 

[depablo]

Hi
Just to update this thread, Cummins QSK 19 out of warranty at 18000 hrs, Bombardier will run until 22000 hrs.

 

[Smudger105e]

DB take oil samples at every A exam (about 2 weekly) and at every B exam (6 monthly) and they get sent to scientifics for analysis.