Covid restrictions to end on 19th July

[yorksrob]

Well said.

Are you still based in Sweden, what is their policy on wearing masks and are you experiencing an increase in the illness ?

 

[Bikeman78]

I find it strange when you see cyclists wearing masks but no helmet. Considering that a head injury in an accident is more likely to cause problems then the small chance of catching COVID while cycling.

Or worse, people wearing their mask inside their otherwise empty car and driving like an idiot!

 

[MikeWM]

Cycling in Cambridge in a mask won't be a problem, it is flat and I doubt it is possible to cycle fast around the town.

You've clearly not been to Cambridge for at least 25 years if you think people don't cycle fast there

 

[43066]

I absolutely agree with the raw words you are saying. But at the same time cannot agree with the way Huntergreed framed the picture.

There have been a lot of discussions over the last couple of years where people seem to equate the deaths of people in their 30s and 40s as the equivalent of the deaths of people in care homes who have lived out their natural lives. That’s totally wrong in my view.

It’s difficult to say it without sounding callous but I think most of us, if we are honest, would distinguish between them.

Closing down society is one thing, wearing basic protection equipment is clearly another. Equally everyone who seems to be demanding a return to a 2019 society, seems to be implying that 2019 was perfect. Frankly for a long time I have been pissed off with people invading my personal space in public environments, being presented with a public transportation system that seems to have an operating model that requires it to run at levels of overcrowding. If 2020 and 2021 have taught us anything, I hope it is that a bit of personal space is not just a nice to have but a nessesity, and without shutting society down, making an allowance for those who need/value it should not be seen as a luxury.

I don’t disagree with some of that, but a lot of natural human life involves interacting with others, and I imagine the vast majority of us would say we have missed that during the stricter phases of lockdown. I can’t ever say I felt my personal space was regularly invaded during life as it was in 2019. Yes there was the stereotypical “armpit in the face” scenario on the tube in London, but that’s an extreme case, and could generally be avoided with a little planning!

Plus one generally had a choice: travel outside rush hour; reserve a seat; book a table somewhere rather than visiting crowded bar etc. I’d rather get back to a life where we get to make that choice as individuals than one where we are all forced to live a sanitised, restricted existence behind masks and plastic screens.

 

[johntea]

I see it is rumoured table service only at pubs will be remaining which is rather annoying

Surely there is very little risk in allowing a queue at the bar and just enforce no standing around at the bar once you have your drinks

 

[westv]

I see it is rumoured table service only at pubs will be remaining which is rather annoying

Surely there is very little risk in allowing a queue at the bar and just enforce no standing around at the bar once you have your drinks

That would work. Nothing worse then trying to get to a bar surrounded by people just standing around chatting.

 

[yorksrob]

I see it is rumoured table service only at pubs will be remaining which is rather annoying

Surely there is very little risk in allowing a queue at the bar and just enforce no standing around at the bar once you have your drinks

That is a nuisance. No loitering at the bar might be justifiable, but being able to queue can be an effective way of getting served quickly (and is no different from non-alcohol type cafes).

 

[jumble]

TfL Commissioner Andy Byford has made noises suggesting TfL may keep its own face covering mandate even if the Government scraps the general mandate (from the Evening Standard 4 days ago):

Bear in mind that TfL currently have a notice at each of their stations, purporting to give a "safety instruction" under their Byelaws that requires face coverings to be worn unless exempt.

I wouldn't put it beyond them to try and extend the mandate on the TfL network in this way, meaning they would sidestep any government revocation of the Face Covering Regulations. That said, I'd have thought such a "safety instruction" may be open to legal challenge as to its legitimacy, given the inherent risk assessment in any revocation of the general mandate.

I predict this will not happen
Sadiq Khan and Andy Byford both need to understand they are not actually in Government
I note that they both are not much concerned with the physical health risks but the reassurance of the frightened

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

I can certainly imagine supermarkets etc still keeping the "Please Wear a Face Covering" signs up, but not necessarily enforcing it.

Supermarkets that I haunt in West London are not even discussing it with their customers let alone attempting to enforce it

 

[NorthOxonian]

That is a nuisance. No loitering at the bar might be justifiable, but being able to queue can be an effective way of getting served quickly (and is no different from non-alcohol type cafes).

And more importantly, table service is a massive pain for a lot of pubs. They need more staff, and it can make the ordering process itself take longer (for example, customers can't see what's on tap so might ask for something which isn't available).

It's all well and good people saying they prefer table service to the bar, but it will cause prices to rise substantially in the long run.

 

[westv]

I've done a bit of general scanning of AP fares in preparation of a return to some sort of commute Hull/London. I won't do full time though. WFH still some days/weeks. The prices aren't too bad. What's the betting that as soon as I have a confirmed date the prices will rocket!

 

[jumble]

Does TfL really want the negative publicity that will inevitably come from enforcing mask usage even if it is no longer legally required? I suspect a lot of staff wouldn't challenge non wearers anyway.

For example I once used the Tube and only when I was halfway to the first stop on my journey did I realise I didn't have my mask on and thus out it on. Nobody said a thing, both staff and passengers.

I was somewhat surprised to witness yesterday at Harrow on the Hill a rather aggressive member of staff on the gateline demand to know why a non wask wearer did not have an exemption badge .

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Jul 2021 ==

They could try but the current mask mandate is not part of the by-laws which is why only the BTP can enforce.

A by-law change would take time

This is not correct
There are TFL enforcement officers who have apparantly been giving out fines
My understanding is that they have mainly been employed as preventing staff assaults
Certainly a 20 minute observation of 7 of them at Bond Street mid morning last week saw many people walk past without masks and the one who were stopped muttered exempt and were promptly sent on their way.
This is why I am not interested in what Sadiq thinks as this waste of money is typical

 

[DelayRepay]

And more importantly, table service is a massive pain for a lot of pubs. They need more staff, and it can make the ordering process itself take longer (for example, customers can't see what's on tap so might ask for something which isn't available).

It's all well and good people saying they prefer table service to the bar, but it will cause prices to rise substantially in the long run.

I think it should be up to the pubs. Table service, bar service or a mixture of the two, whatever works best for them, their staff and their customers.

Will there still be capacity restrictions, I wonder?

 

[Watershed]

I note that they both are not much concerned with the physical health risks but the reassurance of the frightened

Yes, I think that admission says it all.

Face covering guidance risks becoming the new WFH guidance - imposing things under the cover of "stopping the spread" when really it's just that some people prefer the restrictions.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I think it should be up to the pubs. Table service, bar service or a mixture of the two, whatever works best for them, their staff and their customers.

Will there still be capacity restrictions, I wonder?

I think I agree - I can imagine a lot of dry-led pubs moving to table service. They're essentially restaurants anyway so it will suit how they operate.

Ultimately I'm not really the target market for those kinds of pubs and would avoid them if possible, so it doesn't bother me - as long as more traditional pubs can return to the bar system I'll be happy.

 

[philosopher]

I see it is rumoured table service only at pubs will be remaining which is rather annoying

Surely there is very little risk in allowing a queue at the bar and just enforce no standing around at the bar once you have your drinks

Over the last 12 hours it has been rumoured step 4 will involve this following:
Masks still advised to be worn on public transport and other enclosed spaces
WFH advice remaining
Table service in pubs remaining

Step 4 is increasingly looking like it will be easing in name only .

 

[notlob.divad]

Are you still based in Sweden, what is their policy on wearing masks and are you experiencing an increase in the illness ?

I have never been based in Sweden. One of my good friends is based in Sweden, and I took a ferry over for a cycling holiday last Summer. Maybe you are getting somewhat confused by these mentions I may have previously made.

 

[DelayRepay]

I think I agree - I can imagine a lot of dry-led pubs moving to table service. They're essentially restaurants anyway so it will suit how they operate.

Ultimately I'm not really the target market for those kinds of pubs and would avoid them if possible, so it doesn't bother me - as long as more traditional pubs can return to the bar system I'll be happy.

I appreciated the table service during the England game on Saturday. My typical luck is that I would have missed at least one of the goals while queueing at the bar. It was very nice to be able to press a button on my phone and have a round of drinks appear a few minutes later, as if by magic!

 

[notlob.divad]

Plus one generally had a choice: travel outside rush hour;

From my experience, very few people have a choice in that matter. They are expected in work at a certain time, and are allowed to go home at a certain time. Hence there being a rush hour, I am sure if people were given compltley free choice of when they commute, travel patterns and thus loading levels would adapt accordingly. Perhaps more flexibility in working hours is something society as a whole can adapt to. However it will never be possible in all jobs such as shift work for example.

However on the more wider point, whilst being in close contact and having good personal interactions with people we like is a very fine and heatlhy thing. I cannot say I have ever particularly enjoyed the elbow in the ribs when trying to carry drinks away from a bar. Or people I don't know getting up close and personal in a night club, and I would much prefer people were a bit more civilised and gave each other space. However those activities, as you say are a personal choice, shopping and commuting on the otherhand less so. I don't see why it should be socially acceptable for someone to breath down my neck whilst in the checkout queue or trying to get through ticket turnstyles, irrespective of their being a global pandemic or not.

 

[kristiang85]

I appreciated the table service during the England game on Saturday. My typical luck is that I would have missed at least one of the goals while queueing at the bar. It was very nice to be able to press a button on my phone and have a round of drinks appear a few minutes later, as if by magic!

This is a situation where the table service worked very well. The half time drinks rush also is less likely to happen.

 

[big_rig]

Yes, I think that admission says it all.

Face covering guidance risks becoming the new WFH guidance - imposing things under the cover of "stopping the spread" when really it's just that some people prefer the restrictions.

There is also a strong correlation between this group and the ‘it isn’t quite time yet’ contingent. Just a few more weeks etc. I see Pretend SAGE now want the vaccine programme to be ‘finished’ before anything changes and their hangers on are throwing their toys out of the cot on Twitter - too bad! Bring on 5PM

 

[MikeWM]

There is also a strong correlation between this group and the ‘it isn’t quite time yet’ contingent. Just a few more weeks etc.

Indeed. For months now there have been endless repetitions of the argument:

- '*no-one* wants these restrictions to last forever, just a little while longer to keep people safe'
- 'ok, so when and/or what criteria should we have to remove them?'
<silence>

It's about time people realised that there is a noisy and - for some reason - *influential* group of people who want restrictions *forever*, and that their utterances and pronouncements are all aimed at that. Why they want people wearing masks and socially distancing forever, I have no idea, but denying that they exist doesn't make them go away.

 

[yorksrob]

I have never been based in Sweden. One of my good friends is based in Sweden, and I took a ferry over for a cycling holiday last Summer. Maybe you are getting somewhat confused by these mentions I may have previously made.

Ah that may be it. Apologies, I'd gained the impression you were based there for some reason.

 

[PHILIPE]

Indeed. For months now there have been endless repetitions of the argument:

- '*no-one* wants these restrictions to last forever, just a little while longer to keep people safe'
- 'ok, so when and/or what criteria should we have to remove them?'
<silence>

It's about time people realised that there is a noisy and - for some reason - *influential* group of people who want restrictions *forever*, and that their utterances and pronouncements are all aimed at that. Why they want people wearing masks and socially distancing forever, I have no idea, but denying that they exist doesn't make them go away.

Several people from this "SAGE" group were interviewed on TV this morning plus a Union member and they all said "NO".

 

[yorksrob]

Over the last 12 hours it has been rumoured step 4 will involve this following:
Masks still advised to be worn on public transport and other enclosed spaces
WFH advice remaining
Table service in pubs remaining

Step 4 is increasingly looking like it will be easing in name only .

That would be very annoying. I'm pretty much done with face masks on long train journeys. If it does transpire that this is somehow still required, my compliance will be to a basic level.

Table service only in pubs - unjustified covid theatre - but the health establishment know that they can screw around with the hospitality industry with impunity.

 

[MikeWM]

Several people from this "SAGE" group were interviewed on TV this morning plus a Union member and they all said "NO".

Of course, as some/most of SAGE are psychologists, often of the behavioural type, and know full well how to manipulate people.

If Johnson on 23rd March last year had told us this would all still be going on 16 months later, does anyone think compliance with the first lockdown would have been as firm as it was?

 

[Ianno87]

That would be very annoying. I'm pretty much done with face masks on long train journeys. If it does transpire that this is somehow still required, my compliance will be to a basic level.

Table service only in pubs - unjustified covid theatre - but the health establishment know that they can screw around with the hospitality industry with impunity.

I can see myself not wearing one solidly; limiting it only to when the train is busy/people sitting near or moving around stations (for example). I suspect most general folk will be similar (e.g. taking it off when they sit down).

At least "guidance" opens it up to individual preferences about what one feels is appropriate or comfortable. But people on both sides of the "debate" just need to be respectful and act like grown ups.

Personally, on many, many journeys over the last 12 months, I've never seen a single incident of a "mask-tivist" challenging others directly (not including social media), so hopefully that will stay the same.

 

[Bantamzen]

This sort of stuff really, really gets my goat. If this were my union I would be seriously coming out for this blatant example of discrimination. Taken from the BBC News live feed:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-57718061

Bobby Morton, national officer for passenger transport at the Unite union, says he has not been on a bus since he had to sit next to a man not wearing a mask.
He told Radio 4's World at One programme: "A person approached me on the bus a number of weeks ago and sat very close to me.
“He wasn't wearing a mask and I asked him to move away from me and he refused and so I got off the bus and I've not been on one since."
Unite says ending the requirement to wear masks on public transport would be an act of gross negligence by the government.
Morton added: “My main problem is that I can foresee another wave coming in the winter and unfortunately I can see more deaths, particularly amongst the drivers that I represent."

I wonder if it even occurred to him that the guy might have an exception, or hey might have even been a member of his union? This kind of extreme virtue signalling is not only pathetic, but is in my mind a form of discrimination.

Sadly on a similar note, I noticed this morning that a prominent member of my own union has been cuddling up to the lunatic fringe that is iSAGE. If this is the case, I'm really going to have to consider cancelling me subscription after 34 years. The unions are rapidly becoming worse at scaremongering that the bloody media.

 

[yorksrob]

I can see myself not wearing one solidly; limiting it only to when the train is busy/people sitting near or moving around stations (for example). I suspect most general folk will be similar (e.g. taking it off when they sit down).

At least "guidance" opens it up to individual preferences about what one feels is appropriate or comfortable. But people on both sides of the "debate" just need to be respectful and act like grown ups.

Personally, on many, many journeys over the last 12 months, I've never seen a single incident of a "mask-tivist" challenging others directly (not including social media), so hopefully that will stay the same.

I can see myself not wearing it when sat down, but maybe putting it on when moving around the train if required.

Certainly not on open platforms.

 

[notlob.divad]

I wonder if it even occurred to him that the guy might have an exception, or hey might have even been a member of his union? This kind of extreme virtue signalling is not only pathetic, but is in my mind a form of discrimination.

I am not sure why you think that way. If before Covid and Masks, someone felt unsafe or threatened on a bus due to the actions of another passenger who refused to give them some space, I am sure you would have advised them to leave the bus and get themselves to a place of safety. You would also, I assume, not expect them to immediately get back on a bus without some level of re-assurance.

You would not, again I hope, have made a judgement about them as a person, to why they felt unsafe or threatened. But now Covid is here and you feel it is absolutely fine to judge people for asking for a bit of personal space, and then when it is not given removing themselves from potential harm.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Guilt tripping. Classy.

Not so much guilt tripping as being careful and thoughtful to others, perhaps? I can think of plenty of people I know on here that I know will throw the masks away at the earliest opportunity, having only ever worn them in the first place to avoid a fine rather than out of consideration.