Single Justice Procedure Notice- Help Needed Please

[Vilow]

Hello all!

I hope you could help me (or I should say my flatmate) with something. (My flatmate English is not really good. She's lived in the UK for less than a year that's why I'm trying to help her with this).

At the end of April 2021, my flatmate was travelling from East Croydon to London Bridge and was stopped to check her ticket. As she was unable to produce a valid ticket for the journey she was issued a penalty fare notice. She received two letters after that.

She told me that she had her oyster card with her at the time. However, she didn't have money on it and she had forgotten her wallet at home. At East Croydon, she explained the situation to the train station guys and they let her in. She also explained this to the guy giving her the fare notice.

When she received the first letter she went to the Southeastern Railway website and wrote to them to explain what had happened. She didn't receive any response.

As I mentioned above her English is not great. She understood that the guy said that once she received the letter, she should contact the company explaining what happened and everything would be resolved.

Today she's received the Single Justice Procedure Notice and we had no idea of what to do!

She is being charged with:

Boarding the train at a station where ticket purchasing facilities were available, without a valid ticket or other authority for the journey.

Contrary to bylaw 18 of the Railway Bylaws 2005, made under Section 219 of the Transport Act 2000 by the Strategic Rail Authority and confirmed under Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000, as amended by Section 46 of the Railways Act 2005.


Having read some other posts about similar situations, I have some questions:

- Is there any point now in trying to settle this out of court? If so, would you have any advice on how to go about it?
- Should she plead guilty?
- If she does plead guilty, would you have any idea of how much approximately she would need to pay?


Thank you so much!

Vilow

 

[clagmonster]

Please could you confirm where your neighbour was stopped by the revenue inspector?

There is a plausible defence in Byelaw 18:
"(3) No person shall be in breach of Byelaw 18(1) or 18(2) if:
(iii)an authorised person gave him permission to travel without a valid ticket."

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

However, I think that would require a witness statement from the gateline assistant who let your neighbour in at East Croydon. I would not be confident of your chances of defending this.

My advice would be to contact the prosecuting company, requesting an out of court settlement. They are not obliged to offer this.

Contact a criminal defence solicitor - many will offer a free initial consultation.

Ensure that the Single Justice Procedure Notice is returned by the deadline.

In terms of penalty if found guilty, the fine will be half of your neighbour's weekly income. This will be discounted by a third if an early guilty plea is given. There will also be a victim surcharge, this will be 10% of the fine, the minimum the surcharge can be is £34. There will also be compensation of the full single fare, in this case £7.00.

 

[furlong]

If the account is to be believed as complete (and we find second-hand accounts often contain errors of fact), it sounds like a bit of a mess with mistakes on both sides.

What was the nature of the content of the first letter? Does she have a copy of the response she sent and evidence of when she sent it and to where? Has she kept the penalty fare notice? If she had read it, it should have explained how to appeal, and she should have done that according to the instructions - without waiting for any further contact from the company.

One option indeed get the help of a solicitor to untangle the "have cake and eat it" aspects of this? A good solicitor might put them off from taking any further action (abuse of process if it's held that the penalty fare remains enforceable sans appeal, or no case to answer following clagmonster).

Otherwise perhaps get in touch with the part of the company you now know is dealing with this and point out that a response was sent but ignored that (presumably) repeated the information originally supplied at the time (which arguably should have led to a formal request for the normal fare to be paid) - resend it and invite them to accept an accompanying payment of the outstanding fare in full and final settlement and withdrawing the prosecution?

One caveat - if "she explained the situation to the train station guys and they let her in" is an exaggeration or untrue then ignore everything we have written and instead follow the normal formula on other threads of apologising and offering to pay the fare and reimburse the company its costs i.e. ask for an out-of-court settlement. The total cost will have increased substantially due to not dealing with this immediately.

 

[Haywain]

abuse of process if it's held that the penalty fare remains enforceable sans appeal,

Penalty fare? I see no mention of that in the OP.

 

[CrispyUK]

Penalty fare? I see no mention of that in the OP.

It’s in the second paragraph:

At the end of April 2021, my flatmate was travelling from East Croydon to London Bridge and was stopped to check her ticket. As she was unable to produce a valid ticket for the journey she was issued a penalty fare notice. She received two letters after that.

 

[Haywain]

It’s in the second paragraph:

Oops! New specs needed!! Sorry.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum.

If your flatmate was issued with a Penalty Fare then it would probably have been for £20. Was this paid? If so this should have been the end of the matter.

If the Penalty Fare wasn't paid this would explain the further letters from South Eastern, we could do with knowing exactly what these letters said. Are you able to post copies of them on here with any personal information redacted?

It's always worth contacting South Eastern asking if the matter can be dealt with by means of an out of court settlement although they are under absolutely no obligation to do so, and it seems as though your flat mate has potentially has already had more than one opportunity to do so. It would be helpful if we knew exactly what your flatmate wrote in reply to South Eastern's first letter.

 

[t_star2001uk]

When she received the first letter she went to the Southeastern Railway website and wrote to them to explain what had happened. She didn't receive any response.



Vilow

Shouldn't that have been Southern Railway...

 

[Hadders]

Shouldn't that have been Southern Railway...

Not necessarily. It seems as though the OP's flatmate was let through at East Croydon and so I suspect the Penalty Fare was issued at the destination which was London Bridge where South Eastern will have revenue staff. It would be helpful if the OP could confirm this.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Not necessarily. It seems as though the OP's flatmate was let through at East Croydon and so I suspect the Penalty Fare was issued at the destination which was London Bridge where South Eastern will have revenue staff. It would be helpful if the OP could confirm this.

Good point....

 

[Watershed]

When she received the first letter she went to the Southeastern Railway website and wrote to them to explain what had happened. She didn't receive any response.

Did she appeal the Penalty Fare? This is a crucial question - if she brought an appeal in time (or out of time, but that was nevertheless considered by the appeals body), Southeastern cannot bring a prosecution.

She would be well advised to check her emails, web history etc. to see if she can find any trace of the above.

 

[Vilow]

Hello all!

Thank you so much for your responses so far.

I can confirm she was stopped at London Bridge. She didn´t pay the £20 when she received the first letter, hence (I guess) she is in this situation.

I don't have the answer to other questions: where exactly she wrote, what she said and I only have at the moment a copy of the second letter she received where it says she should pay £60 pounds which she didn't do either.

I haven't seen the first letter. Tomorrow morning I will ask her exactly what she did.

To me, it seems a bit difficult to fight this in court as I don't see how she can prove they let her in at East Croydon station.... what a mess!

 

[Hadders]

Hello all!

Thank you so much for your responses so far.

I can confirm she was stopped at London Bridge. She didn´t pay the £20 when she received the first letter, hence (I guess) she is in this situation.

I don't have the answer to other questions: where exactly she wrote, what she said and I only have at the moment a copy of the second letter she received where it says she should pay £60 pounds which she didn't do either.

I haven't seen the first letter. Tomorrow morning I will ask her exactly what she did.

To me, it seems a bit difficult to fight this in court as I don't see how she can prove they let her in at East Croydon station.... what a mess!

Hmmm. So reading between the lines:

1. At East Croydon passenger has no credit on their Oyster card and has forgotten their wallet but convinces the gate late line staff to let them through (one could argue
that this constitutes permission to travel but good luck getting the South Eastern or a court to believe this)
2. Passenger gets a Penalty Fare at East Croydon. Doesn't pay it (presumably because they have no money due to forgotten wallet)
3. South Eastern send a first letter requesting £20. Passenger apparently emails South Eastern but receives no reply
4. South Eastern send a second letter, the amount requested is now £60. Passenger doesn't pay this
5. South Eastern issue a Single Justice Procedure Notice

The time to keep this out of court would have paid up after the first letter arrived. It's going to be difficult to do this now.

I suggest writing to South Eastern, sending the letter by first class recorded delivery. You might want to include the following in the letter:

- That they are sorry for what has happened
- What they have learned from the incident
- That despite ignoring the previous letters they are keen to settle the matter without the needing to resort to court

Offer to pay the rail company's administrative costs in dealing with the incident along with the outstanding fare. This is not going to be cheap and if South Eastern do agree to a settlement you must pay without delay - do not mess them around any further. This might just be enough to persuade South Eastern to withdraw the court case but there cannot be any guarantees. To be honest if what I have assumed here is correct I can understand why South Eastern have sent the case to court.

 

[Vilow]

Hello!

So here there is a bit more information about the case. Bear with me because this is just getting better! (facepalm)

- She told East Croydon people she didn't have money on her oyster and had forgotten her wallet. The guy let her in.

- She is stopped in London Bridge and given a Penalty Fare Notice/Receipt for £20 (I have the copy of this ticket). She explained the situation to him. According to my flatmate, the guy told her that he had to give her the fine but she could write an email to Southeastern to explained what happened and it would be resolved. She said the guy told her she had to do this by Friday before 8 pm.

- She apparently didn´t read the whole ticket and noticed there is a part where it says how to appeal. So she went to google, looked for the company name in order to send an email about it. However, it seems she didn't go to the Southeastern website but to the Southeast website (I guess these are different companies).

- On 19 May 2021 she received a Reminder: Penalty Fare issued on 27 April 2021 at 19:35. Payment Overdue. Amount now outstanding £40 (which includes a £20 administration fee for late payment) She didn't do anything. She thought she should call them but she didn't. (facepalm)

- On 3 June 2021 she received a further letter. Reminder: Penalty Fare issued. This time it was for £60 (which includes a further £20 administration fees for late payment). The letter also says "Please pay before 18 June 2021 to avoid Criminal Proceedings". She again forgot to contact them and didn't pay either. (facepalm again).


Now, given she apparently didn´t contact the right company (Southeastern) and she has at the moment no way of proving she was let in at East Croydon station, I guess there is no point in pleading not guilty and fight it in court.

- Is there any point in trying to set it out of court? or is it worth trying? if so, should we write to the "appeal website"? (in this case, www.penaltyservices.co.uk)

- Should we just forget about everything and plead guilty?


Thank you so much for your help and for sharing your knowledge. She is definitely learning a massive lesson right now!

Vilow

 

[AlterEgo]

Hello!

So here there is a bit more information about the case. Bear with me because this is just getting better! (facepalm)

- She told East Croydon people she didn't have money on her oyster and had forgotten her wallet. The guy let her in.

How did she expect to get out? Why would the staff let her in when she had no ticket and no means to purchase one? They just...wanted to give her a free journey? Something isn't right there.

- Is there any point in trying to set it out of court? or is it worth trying? if so, should we write to the "appeal website"? (in this case, www.penaltyservices.co.uk)

- Should we just forget about everything and plead guilty?


Thank you so much for your help and for sharing your knowledge. She is definitely learning a massive lesson right now!

Vilow

Which correspondence do you still have? Don't use the appeal address but there should be contact details on the correspondence for Southeastern. It is definitely still possible to settle out of court.

 

[Vilow]

I know this has been handled really badly on my flatmate´s part but as I said she just doesn´t speak the language really well.

She just told me reading "how to appeal" for her meant nothing as she didn't know what appeal meant. What a mess!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 3 Jul 2021 ==

How did she expect to get out? Why would the staff let her in when she had no ticket and no means to purchase one? They just...wanted to give her a free journey? Something isn't right there.

Which correspondence do you still have? Don't use the appeal address but there should be contact details on the correspondence for Southeastern. It is definitely still possible to settle out of court.

Hi AlterEgo, thanks for your response. I can just go with what she is telling me, she says that the guy at East Croydon let her in.

There is no contact number or email in the two Reminder: Penalty Fare letters she is received. Only a how to pay contacts and also the National Debtline and Citizens Advice Bureau.

 

[Watershed]

So she went to google, looked for the company name in order to send an email about it. However, it seems she didn't go to the Southeastern website but to the Southeast website (I guess these are different companies).

Can your housemate find the email she sent? This could be of crucial importance, as I have said. If she can show she brought an appeal against the Penalty Fare, then even if that appeal was denied, Southeastern cannot prosecute.

If she only wrote to Southeastern customer services or similar, this likely does not qualify as an appeal.

It would be helpful if you could post any details on here of the email she sent (with names, reference numbers etc. redacted).

 

[Vilow]

Can your housemate find the email she sent? This could be of crucial importance, as I have said. If she can show she brought an appeal against the Penalty Fare, then even if that appeal was denied, Southeastern cannot prosecute.

If she only wrote to Southeastern customer services or similar, this likely does not qualify as an appeal.

It would be helpful if you could post any details on here of the email she sent (with names, reference numbers etc. redacted).

No, because it was the general enquiries part where you just fill in some boxes and also as I explained she went to what I think is the wrong website. She went to the Southern website. This one https://www.southernrailway.com/

The penalty fares are from Southerneastern which is this one https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/contact-us

Also, she filled in all the boxes with her details and only wrote "contact me, please" as in her brain the guy had told her to send an email and that wasn't an email.

Her handling of all this is just nonsense but given her knowledge of the language is not good and she hasn't been here for a long time, I feel somehow pity and would like to help her. Although, I told her off today!

 

[Watershed]

No, because it was the general enquiries part where you just fill in some boxes and also as I explained she went to what I think is the wrong website. She went to the Southern website. This one https://www.southernrailway.com/

The penalty fares are from Southerneastern which is this one https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/contact-us

Also, she filled in all the boxes with her details and only wrote "contact me, please" as in her brain the guy had told her to send an email and that wasn't an email.

Her handling of all this is just nonsense but given her knowledge of the language is not good and she hasn't been here for a long time, I feel somehow pity and would like to help her. Although, I told her off today!

Yeah, that's not going to qualify.

Very unfortunate that she did not seek your assistance sooner - as I say, this could all have been avoided by making an appeal (even if it was refused and she simply decided to pay up the £20/40/60). It will now likely cost her rather more, whether that's by way of a settlement or a Court fine.

 

[Fawkes Cat]

To summarise our advice now:

It is too late to bring things to an end by paying any of the amount previously asked for (£20/40/60). But Southeastern might agree to an out of court settlement: your friend should write to Southeastern and Hadders explains in post #13 above what they should say.

Go through all the correspondence and emails again looking for an email or postal address to send it to. If you can’t find one, per the Southeastern website (https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/contact-us) write to

Southeastern Customer Services
PO Box 10422
Ashby-de-la-Zouch
LE65 9EL

Send the letter by the ‘signed-for’ service - it will cost ‘from £2.06’ and needs to be sent from a post office, but it means that your friend can check that it has been delivered. Don’t forget to include your friend’s name and address, and any references given on the letters and emails that your friend has received.

Southeastern don’t have to agree to an out of court settlement - but your friend needs to ask to be offered one. And it will also be more than the amount previously asked for. Your friend is not in a strong position to negotiate, so if Southeastern do offer a settlement the only way to stop the prosecution going ahead is to agree to the amount and pay it in the timescale that Southeastern offer.

 

[Vilow]

To summarise our advice now:

It is too late to bring things to an end by paying any of the amount previously asked for (£20/40/60). But Southeastern might agree to an out of court settlement: your friend should write to Southeastern and Hadders explains in post #13 above what they should say.

Go through all the correspondence and emails again looking for an email or postal address to send it to. If you can’t find one, per the Southeastern website (https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/contact-us) write to

Southeastern Customer Services
PO Box 10422
Ashby-de-la-Zouch
LE65 9EL

Send the letter by the ‘signed-for’ service - it will cost ‘from £2.06’ and needs to be sent from a post office, but it means that your friend can check that it has been delivered. Don’t forget to include your friend’s name and address, and any references given on the letters and emails that your friend has received.

Southeastern don’t have to agree to an out of court settlement - but your friend needs to ask to be offered one. And it will also be more than the amount previously asked for. Your friend is not in a strong position to negotiate, so if Southeastern do offer a settlement the only way to stop the prosecution going ahead is to agree to the amount and pay it in the timescale that Southeastern offer.

Hello!

I can only thank you for all the advice and support with this. You guys are stars!

Basically, she called the telephone number we had on the second letter she received (the one saying she had to pay 60 pounds) and she offered to pay whatever was necessary. This number was just for payment though.

She was lucky and the guy on the phone spoke her language. She ended up paying over 134 pounds. The guy told her on the phone that they would stop the court proceedings but didn´t confirm this by email or in writing so I´m a bit concerned.

I sent her to the Citizen Advice Bureau for advice on what to do as we didn´t have confirmation of anything and they told her to plead guilty, fill in the form and explain in the box for mitigating circumstances that she had already paid. I´m also not sure if this is correct...

Thank you.

Vilow

 

[SussexMan]

they told her to plead guilty, fill in the form and explain in the box for mitigating circumstances that she had already paid. I´m also not sure if this is correct...

I wouldn't be doing that! Southeastern need to withdraw the court claim and confirm to you that they have done so.

 

[AlterEgo]

No! Don’t plead guilty. The train company must withdraw the case. Get confirmation of payment and withdrawal of court proceedings.

 

[Vilow]

I found their customer service number so we will be calling this afternoon. They gave her a reference number after the payment.

If we don't get an answer we will write to them.

Thank you so much everyone.

 

[WesternLancer]

I found their customer service number so we will be calling this afternoon. They gave her a reference number after the payment.

If we don't get an answer we will write to them.

Thank you so much everyone.

You need to write to them anyway (but by all means ring them as well). Someone verbally telling you something on the phone does not really count for anything much. At the very least you would need to keep your own recording of the conversation.

Keep evidence of payment in whatever form she has such evidence - bank statements / screen shots etc. Prepare a letter to them asking them to confirm in writing that now payment under reference X (the ref number they gave) has been made that court action has been withdrawn (as in post #22).

Do all this in writing, keep copies.

Whilst it can be remembered or use phone log to note down exact date and time of the call and number dialed when payment of that sum was made. Keep record or screen shot / photo of that call log.

Be prepared to keep these copies for some time (at least a year).