London Midland super off peak restrictions

[Carefree]

Hi. First time on here, and grateful for any help you can pass my way...

Looking to use the very good value London Midland super off peak return from Milton Keynes Central to Wolverhampton (£11.50 return). I wish to travel out on a weekday afternoon, but the London Midland website booking engine shows a blackout period for this ticket on trains departing Milton Keynes between about 1400 an 1900.

I've had a look at the ticket conditions on Avantix Traveller (see below), and can't see anything that would prevent travelling on this ticket during the window from 1400 to 1630 (at which point peak restrictions seemingly kick in). Am I missing somthing obvious? Were I to use it for, say, a 1600 departure from MK would I come a cropper?

Many thanks in anticipation of help.


OPR - SUPER OFFPEAK R LMR
00042 - LDN MIDLAND ONLY

MONDAYS to FRIDAYS:

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to ARRIVE London Terminals before 1300.

Not valid for travel on northbound London Midland services timed to DEPART London Terminals or any other station, before 1030.

Not valid for travel on London Midland services timed to DEPART any station between 1630 and 1930 in either direction (except for the 1829 London Euston to Crewe service) unless a connecting service is being used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

Break of journey is not permitted except to change trains at an intermediate station or to access station facilities.

 

[yorkie]

Welcome Departing MKC around 1600 should be fine! If the train departs EUS between 1030 and 1629 (or if it doesn't start at EUS at all) then it is valid on this ticket.

 

[tony_mac]

The London Midland website (and others) block all tickets where there is a change of train between 16:30 and 19:30.

This is wrong, and these journeys are allowed. (I have an email from London Midland confirming this, dating back to April 2009), but you must begin your journey before 16:30.

I am not sure that when/if the train departs Euston is relevant in the evenings.

 

[Carefree]

Thanks both - might have known technology would be the cause of confusion!

 

[RJ]

Welcome Departing MKC around 1600 should be fine! If the train departs EUS between 1030 and 1629 (or if it doesn't start at EUS at all) then it is valid on this ticket.

It applies for trains originating at any station, not just Euston.
Journies using OP tickets can't commence between 16:30 and 19:29 inclusive unless there's an easement, like the last down Trent Valley service from Euston at 18:29.

 

[yorkie]

What does "timed to DEPART any station" mean? Does "any" station mean any station on your journey? Or dies it actually mean your origin? I had originally assumed it meant the train's origin, but now I believe it means the passengers origin.

But a strict interpretation would be that "any" station means any station the train calls at, which can't possibly be right!

For trains ex-London, where an evening peak restriction applies, on all other routes that I can think of, the restriction applies based on when the train is timed to depart from London.

 

[RJ]

What does "timed to DEPART any station" mean? Does "any" station mean any station on your journey? Or dies it actually mean your origin? I had originally assumed it meant the train's origin, but now I believe it means the passengers origin.

But a strict interpretation would be that "any" station means any station the train calls at, which can't possibly be right!

For trains ex-London, where an evening peak restriction applies, on all other routes that I can think of, the restriction applies based on when the train is timed to depart from London.

The passengers origin.
An OP with origin London Terminals can be used on the 16:24 ex Euston, but an OP with origin Watford Junction can't be used on that train. I think the same restriction code applies to any originating station where OPs are concerned, be it Watford, Walsall or Wilnecote.

 

[yorkie]

Interesting. The wording is a bit misleading then! Why do they say "from any station" those words just need to be removed and then we know what it means, as it's the same as most other restrictions! Those 3 words are totally unnecessary!

Also the ticket code "OP" means "Super Off Peak" and some people may think it means "Off Peak". Now I know that, but some people won't (SV means "Off Peak" and CD means "Off Peak Day").

It's almost as if they've tried to make it as confusing as possible.

Out of all the 'sales' type jobs around, yours (a UK rail ticket seller) must be the most challenging! Thanks, as always, for your insight

 

[clagmonster]

Yorkie has asked for my view on this via PM. I , like hime, think the wording is slightly strange, but I think the only way we can deal with ticket restrictions is to take what they say at face value. Therefore, I would say that the tickets are barred on trains which leave the origin station and/or any calling point between 16:30 and 19:30. If this is the case, it does seem to be a very harsh restriciton.
I certainly think that taking 'any station' to mean solely Euston would be wrong because you would be applying a very specific definition to a very non-specific term.

I think RJ's interpretation is reasonable, but doesn't cover the full wording of the restriction. That said, I think it possible that it is the intended interpretation, just the it has been worded poorly. RJ, have you received any official guidance on this, or is this just your interpretation?

 

[tony_mac]

Therefore, I would say that the tickets are barred on trains which leave the origin station and/or any calling point between 16:30 and 19:30.

It can't possibly mean that - as it also says

unless a connecting service is being used to complete a journey begun at a valid time.

which directly contradicts it not being valid at all calling points.
This is also implies that it is the time that the journey begins that matters.

London Midland have also confirmed, in the past, that it is origin time that is relevant.

I can confirm that your Super Off-Peak ticket will be valid on that 1616
service from Nuneaton as your initial journey is before 1630.