Where should the 322s head?

[387star]

With the 322s leaving ScotRail with the introduction of 380s and the various cascades this entails where would we like these units to head?

I say FCC as they are already refurbished in Firsts Colours and could further enhance the very similar 321s already down there!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
wiki implies East Anglia will recieve them but I am not sure if anything has been agreed yet ?!

 

[MacCookie]

With the 322s leaving ScotRail with the introduction of 380s and the various cascades this entails where would we like these units to head?

I say FCC as they are already refurbished in Firsts Colours and could further enhance the very similar 321s already down there!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
wiki implies East Anglia will recieve them but I am not sure if anything has been agreed yet ?!

The 322s are subleased from NXEA. They'll be returned to NXEA when the sublease expires at the end of March.

http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/page/Class+322

Ewan

 

[Aictos]

If anyone was to get them, I suspect the area where bikes/luggage can be kept would be converted to provide extra seating - probably with fold up bench seating.

I don't know if the 322s already have this type of seating in that area as I was using the middle of the train the last time I was using them last year.

I could say they could go to Northern and introduce a half hourly service between Doncaster and Leeds to bolster the 321/9s that Northern already have which would be a improvement on the currently hourly run services.

Saying that they could move south to First Capital Connect which would lead to more seats for passengers by using existing trains to be made longer as there's not many 12 car trains.

I don't think NXEA needs any more trains then they currently have as they have the 379s coming onboard for the Stansted Express freeing up the 317s for the West Anglia services and also the extra 321s heading to the Great Eastern, I can't see why they would need more?

 

[387star]

Yeah I agree they don't need any more!

 

[philjo]

The could go to West Yorkshire & in turn release the 321s there which could then join the others already at FCC.
If they went directly to FCC that would be a 5th class of train at Hornsey. Presumably a larger a fleet of 321s together would be preferable.

 

[Failed Unit]

I could say they could go to Northern and introduce a half hourly service between Doncaster and Leeds to bolster the 321/9s that Northern already have which would be a improvement on the currently hourly run services.

I don't think capacity exists for this, it was hard enough getting the 1/2 hourly IC service through. The stopping service will drain capacity and this is only a 2 track railway.

 

[sprinterguy]

The could go to West Yorkshire & in turn release the 321s there which could then join the others already at FCC.
If they went directly to FCC that would be a 5th class of train at Hornsey. Presumably a larger a fleet of 321s together would be preferable.

The 322s are damn near identical to the 321s in all but number. They could very easily be renumbered 321481-485 for all the difference it makes. I say send them to First Capital Connect.

 

[theblackwatch]

The 322s are damn near identical to the 321s in all but number. They could very easily be renumbered 321481-485 for all the difference it makes. I say send them to First Capital Connect.

At one time there was a proposal to reclassify them as Class 321/5 when they were taken off Stansted duties and transferred north to Scotland.

 

[tbtc]

The could go to West Yorkshire & in turn release the 321s there which could then join the others already at FCC

Makes sense to me. Keeps a bigger batch of 321s together.

 

[Crossforth]

The could go to West Yorkshire & in turn release the 321s there which could then join the others already at FCC.
If they went directly to FCC that would be a 5th class of train at Hornsey. Presumably a larger a fleet of 321s together would be preferable.

I was thinking that.

And reclassifying them sounds sensible. I assume they only difference between 321s and 322s is the layout?

 

[sprinterguy]

I was thinking that.

And reclassifying them sounds sensible. I assume they only difference between 321s and 322s is the layout?

As far as I know, yes.

 

[Fred26]

Have the 322's been refurbished at all in recent years? A few years ago when they were regularly running from Southend Victoria-Liverpool Street they had absolutely rancid interiors.

 

[sprinterguy]

Have the 322's been refurbished at all in recent years? A few years ago when they were regularly running from Southend Victoria-Liverpool Street they had absolutely rancid interiors.

Yeah, they were thoroughly refurbished by Scotrail about four or five years ago, when they went back up to Scotland the second time. I think that's when there was talk of renumbering them 321/5s.

 

[Aictos]

Well they no longer have the 2+2 seating they had when they were working the Stansted Express, they now have 2+3 seating and lots of pink around the vestibules!

 

[Fred26]

Carpets? I do hope not.

 

[CarterUSM]

Carpets? I do hope not.

No carpets! Ajax, i'd have described the vestibule colour as salmon.

 

[Fred26]

Great.

 

[route:oxford]

Run them as a hourly "stopper" between Edinburgh (or even Glasgow Central via Motherwell) to Newcastle.

Jointly fund between Transport Scotland and the local regional development agency (ONE?) for that part of England.

Better replace the 2+3 with 2+2 though.

 

[ainsworth74]

Run them as a hourly "stopper" between Edinburgh (or even Glasgow Central via Motherwell) to Newcastle.

I'm sure that's been looked at before and there either wasn't the demand or the pathing would have been to complex.

 

[tbtc]

I'm sure that's been looked at before and there either wasn't the demand or the pathing would have been to complex.

I can't imagine many people wanting to spend two and a half hours on a 322 either...

 

[Aictos]

No carpets! Ajax, i'd have described the vestibule colour as salmon.

Same thing though, just a different name for the colour,

I can't see a problem with the 322s, they're perfect for the North Berwick route!

I can't imagine many people wanting to spend two and a half hours on a 322 either...

I don't know, I did spend nearly 4 hours on a 142 getting the Paignton, Exemouth and Barnstaple branches done last year so nearly 3 hours on a 322 wouldn't bother me at all!

 

[Simon Poole]

What about London Midland? they could use them on some of the ether Northampton/Milton Keynes/Tring to Euston services and that could free up some Class 350's for Half an hourly Euston to Crewe Services

 

[Crossforth]

What about London Midland? they could use them on some of the ether Northampton/Milton Keynes/Tring to Euston services and that could free up some Class 350's for Half an hourly Euston to Crewe Services

Aren't they ultimately getting rid of the 321s?

 

[MCR247]

I'm not sure there would be paths for 2 LMs to Crewe

 

[Invincibles]

In terms of Crewe paths for LM, maybe just to Stafford, going north they could head through the two track section at about the same time as a Manchester train heads up to Stoke. Going south they could feasibly head out in front of the Liverpool to London that stops at Stafford and so get onto the slow line just in time for the Liverpool to overtake? In terms of London they could just be tacked onto a Milton Keynes or Northampton terminator.

If there really is demand in the Trent Valley then this could work, but I am not sure it is the best use for the 322s to make such a use of 350s possible.

Personally I would look at some of the solutions that involve Northern

 

[The_Stig]

If anyone was to get them, I suspect the area where bikes/luggage can be kept would be converted to provide extra seating - probably with fold up bench seating.

I don't know if the 322s already have this type of seating in that area as I was using the middle of the train the last time I was using them last year.

The area behind the cab up to the first vestibule is dedicated for bikes with no seating.

 

[Aictos]

The area behind the cab up to the first vestibule is dedicated for bikes with no seating.

Ah, I didn't see last year - ta

 

[Pumbaa]

In terms of Crewe paths for LM, maybe just to Stafford, going north they could head through the two track section at about the same time as a Manchester train heads up to Stoke. Going south they could feasibly head out in front of the Liverpool to London that stops at Stafford and so get onto the slow line just in time for the Liverpool to overtake? In terms of London they could just be tacked onto a Milton Keynes or Northampton terminator.

If there really is demand in the Trent Valley then this could work, but I am not sure it is the best use for the 322s to make such a use of 350s possible.

Personally I would look at some of the solutions that involve Northern

That wouldn't work - you'd be sending the two trains out within 10mins of each other if thats the case.

The best pathing would be to send one behind the Super Voyager to Chester, up the slows from Euston to MK, fast through Weedon and pull it over at Rugby to get out the way of the following Pendo (which calls at MK anyway). Then send it up TV to Stafford, straight on to Liverpool. The other one runs via Stoke, and fit it in the gap at the opposite side of the timetable.

 

[jopsuk]

As there are operators who'd cheerfully have taken them (FCC and NXEA for example) it still strikes me as boneheaded that LM still have 321s- that 350/2 order should have been for 44, not 37.

 

[tbtc]

As there are operators who'd cheerfully have taken them (FCC and NXEA for example) it still strikes me as boneheaded that LM still have 321s- that 350/2 order should have been for 44, not 37.

Totally agree!

Same with TPE not ordering enough 185s and so using 158/170s (the 170s could be used at Scotrail/ LM/ NXEA).

Same with Northern Spirit/ ATN not ordering enough 333s and so using 321s from Leeds (as jopsuk says, the 321s could be used at FCC and NXEA).

In fact, the same could be argued of Midland Mainline not ordering enough 222s to replace all HSTs (since the HSTs could be used by XC/ FGW etc)

The hassle of maintaining small fleets means new orders for units should be sufficient to replace everything they need to - not to leave a handful of "other" units like the 321s at LM/ Northern (or the 170s at TPE)