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Rail operator plans new 140mph service to London

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Since when is the IEP loco and stock? It was understanding that it is to be an MU. The dft specification actually says it must be able to split en-route and operate as discrete units so this does indeed suggest an MU.

Zoe, you're absolutely right. Even Polaris will have motor bogies on the first trailer car at each end of the train set, so it should be classed as a multiple unit. The designation 6xxxxx seems to make sense, as 1xxxxx through to 5xxxxx are all used for one type of stock or another and bi-mode doesn't fall into any of the existing groups. At a stretch, it could be 225xxx, but a new grouing seems to make more sense.
 
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tbtc

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I think it is quite good. But to be fair to them, they have got to do what the majority of the passengers want. The amount of money & pax they might have lost will be nowhere near the amount of money/pax they have gained by having faster more frequent trains, which wouldn't have been possible without missing out a few stops

That's absolutely right.

Enthusiasts bemoan the lack of Warrington to Lichfield/ Glasgow to Northampton/ Manchester to Nuneaton services (many of which are still possible changing at Crewe), but the London passengers outnumber these several times over.

Sorry folks, but the changes are broadly right and have targeted the majority
 

LE Greys

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I like that, but it's unlikely that people would let them use it. Can you do a Coronation livery one please? Garter Blue/Marlborough Blue.
 

EWS 58038

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I like that, but it's unlikely that people would let them use it. Can you do a Coronation livery one please? Garter Blue/Marlborough Blue.

Thanks, It's the first time I changed the colour of a train, and I am satisfied with the result in 4 minutes.

What exactly is the colour you refer to? And do you have a picture of it?
 

MCR247

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Does anyone else think this sounds familiar? I remember when GC said they were ordered Polaris stock from CSRE, and there was even technical drawings. Of course this never happened, they used 35 year HSTs, not brand new stock, and now they use trains that really could be better used elsewhere
 

Bittern

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Thanks, It's the first time I changed the colour of a train, and I am satisfied with the result in 4 minutes.

What exactly is the colour you refer to? And do you have a picture of it?
Garter Blue is the colour Mallard's currently in. So just find a picture of her, and you've got a picture of garter blue.
 

tbtc

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Does anyone else think this sounds familiar? I remember when GC said they were ordered Polaris stock from CSRE, and there was even technical drawings. Of course this never happened,

Most of the "promises" GNER made never happened. They had great PR but I'd rather have a TOC that delivered
 

ST PADDY

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Ive not ready through every listing so sorry if this is said else where.
Alliance also have said they wish to run services from Huddersfield to Kings Cross via Sheffield, though it doesn`t say whether via Retford or Nottingham, probably the latter though, and Huddersfield to Euston via Stockport.
They ceratainly seam an ambituos company, though isnt this all remanisance of the railway mania of the 19th century, how many of those scemes got the nod.
 

YorkshireBear

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Ive not ready through every listing so sorry if this is said else where.
Alliance also have said they wish to run services from Huddersfield to Kings Cross via Sheffield, though it doesn't say whether via Retford or Nottingham, probably the latter though, and Huddersfield to Euston via Stockport.
They ceratainly seam an ambituos company, though isnt this all remanisance of the railway mania of the 19th century, how many of those scemes got the nod.

it states it is via retford calling at worksop and retford......
 

ST PADDY

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Hello everyone I'm new to this forum.

The front page of the Telegraph and Argus today caught my attention, with claims that new rail operator ARH have a new Bradford Interchange to London Euston via Manchester Victoria route planned using newly built 'duel fuel' trains that would reach 140mph once past Crewe towards Euston.

See below for what is welcomed news in Bradford after years of playing second fiddle to Leeds.

A rail operator has revealed plans to introduce new 140mph inter-city services between Bradford and London and major cities in the north.

Alliance Rail Holdings has published proposals for direct services every two hours between Bradford Interchange and London Euston via Manchester Victoria, Crewe and the West Coast Main Line (WCML).

The company also wants to restore Bradford’s long-lost direct rail links to two major northern cities by operating a Hull to Liverpool Lime Street service via Bradford every two hours.

In the final part of its three-pronged bid, Alliance wants to run direct services from Skipton and Ilkley to London Kings Cross via the East Coast Main Line (ECML), providing a boost for passengers in the Aire Valley and Wharfedale.

Alliance, owned by Berlin-based Deutsche Bahn, one of the world’s biggest transport companies, is holding talks with train manufacturers with a view to building a fleet of 140mph trains to operate the services.

The ‘duel fuel’ trains would be capable of operating from overhead electric wires on the main line and then switching to their own power provided by onboard diesel engines on non-electrified routes.

Ian Yeowart, managing director of Alliance, said the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) was aware of his company’s plans and will be asked to approve them.

Mr Yeowart said: “Subject to the proposal being accepted by the ORR, it is planned to begin the roll out of new services on the WCML from December 2013, with ECML services and Pennine services following soon after.

“There’s a huge amount of investment backing up these service groups. These proposals are well thought-out.

“No other operator has ever introduced a fleet of new trains, which makes this an exciting proposal.

“In the first phase of work on the WCML, we want to offer a frequent service down the Calder Valley, which has been quite neglected. We’re looking at a high-quality commercial link between Bradford and Manchester Victoria, then on to London.

“For Bradford, it starts to create a high-quality intercity link between itself and Manchester which has been long lost.

“Phase two of the service proposition will be for services serving London King’s Cross from Skipton and Ilkley. Skipton and that area has been deprived over time by GNER and its successor.

“We are looking at a third phase with services that would link Hull and Liverpool right through the Calder Valley.

“That would mean an hourly fast train between Bradford and Manchester.

“Although we don’t anticipate many people catching the train all the way from Hull to Liverpool, we think there’ll be a real demand for the intermediate journeys, from Hull to Bradford, or from Bradford to Manchester or Liverpool.”

Mr Yeowart was heavily involved with Grand Central’s successful bid to introduce a Bradford Interchange to London King’s Cross service before he left the company.

Grand Central, which introduced its new Bradford to London service on the ECML earlier this summer, said: “Grand Central welcomes new entrants into the market as this shows that open access operators are able to meet passenger demand for new journey opportunities that franchised operators are unable to.”



I must say that with Deutsche Bank on board (the second-largest transport company in the world and largest railway operator and infrastructure owner in Europe) this looks like being more than just pure fantasy.

The new 'duel fuel' trains that they hope to use look amazing.[/QUOTE

Grand central welcomes compition, that is untill they attcualy have com
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--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
it states it is via retford calling at worksop and retford......

Aye- we've got two 140mph classes running on the main network, on the ECML and WCML, already that aren't allowed above 125mph as that's the limit of the signalling system. Unless Yeowart has a source of funds to resignal the route they propose to use, including fitting all the existing trains that run on the route with the required equipment, they're not going anywhere near that fast.

As far as i`m aware the only reason that i`ve heard for not being allowed to run above 125mph is that it is supposed to be imposible to see a signle coming towards the driver at a higher speed, even though the signal starts in the distance and gradualy gets nearer, would another 15 mph really make a differance to safty i doubt it.
If BR had implamented 140mph running for the class91 as it had intended to do instead of costing the finacial side of such speed over the benifits then the bench mark for incab signaling would be 140 mph instead.
 
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Hydro

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As far as i'm aware the only reason that i've heard for not being allowed to run above 125mph is that it is supposed to be imposible to see a signle coming towards the driver at a higher speed


Not to see, to react to. Reacting fractionally too late could push the braking distance to past the red signal two aspects down the line. 15mph doesn't sound much, but every mph faster lengthens the time to react, not to mention the braking distance is lengthened also.


even though the signal starts in the distance and gradualy gets nearer.

Except for those pesky things called "curves".
 

Peter Mugridge

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I wonder... is there any technical reason why a sort of interim system, half way between full in cab signalling and AWS, could not be developed?

What I am thinking of is something like a simple display in the cab of four coloured lights in the layout of a four aspect signal, which would simply display what the lineside signals are?

Maybe with a system like this it could be set to show the signals one block ahead of the lineside signals ( with a caveat that no clearer aspect than the next lineside signal is displaying may be shown ), which would answer the breaking distance thing...?
 

LE Greys

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I wonder... is there any technical reason why a sort of interim system, half way between full in cab signalling and AWS, could not be developed?

What I am thinking of is something like a simple display in the cab of four coloured lights in the layout of a four aspect signal, which would simply display what the lineside signals are?

Maybe with a system like this it could be set to show the signals one block ahead of the lineside signals ( with a caveat that no clearer aspect than the next lineside signal is displaying may be shown ), which would answer the breaking distance thing...?

Scroll down this page and you'll find something called Signal Repeating AWS (originally Southern Region AWS). This system involved the aspects of the signals in advance and rear repeated in the cab. The driver had to acknowledge with the correct button, otherwise the brakes would come on. This meant that curves would have no effect on signal visibility, and if running under double yellows, if a train passed a single yellow and the driver forgot to check properly, he would probably push the wrong button. Finally, it also acted a bit like TPWS, because a SPAD would always result in a stop.
 

Peter Mugridge

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So... the technology already exists and what is more it is tried and found to have worked...?

Interesting...

So... could this be adapted slightly to act in the exact way I have in mind as a means of permitting 140mph without the costs of full in cab signalling?

( Please note - this is a question on the technical theory of it only; for this purpose please could we leave aside the other problems of going to 140mph for the time being? :) )
 

jopsuk

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I wonder... is there any technical reason why a sort of interim system, half way between full in cab signalling and AWS, could not be developed?

What I am thinking of is something like a simple display in the cab of four coloured lights in the layout of a four aspect signal, which would simply display what the lineside signals are?

Maybe with a system like this it could be set to show the signals one block ahead of the lineside signals ( with a caveat that no clearer aspect than the next lineside signal is displaying may be shown ), which would answer the breaking distance thing...?

As well as the Southern system, that's what the French system effectively is.

Alternatively, it is also what ETCS Level 1 is (Level 2 is fixed block, trackside signal free- ie what is being installed on the Cambrian- and level 3 is moving block)
 

The Planner

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Easy to say, but I'd like to hear some arguments.

Impossible to say yet, but if they try and bid for paths which involve moving the existing services about they are likely to get two fingers shown by the incumbent TOCs.
 

paul1609

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Is the Polaris stock tilting? If not wont it be bidding for non existant 110 mph paths down the WCML?
 
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Is the Polaris stock tilting? If not wont it be bidding for non existant 110 mph paths down the WCML?

Polaris can be equipped with the same kind of tilting equipment as that fitted to Pendolino. This is mature technology in China.

tiltbogie0.jpg


tiltbogie1.jpg


tiltbogie2.jpg


tiltbogie3.jpg
 

MCR247

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Yeah :D But I suppose as its a DEMU they could easily number it that
 
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