Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
I'm not convinced that Cornwall would want to be a day trip destination for much of the country. Having fewer people staying longer generates more income and less disruption than millions of day trippers.
I’m not really sure that Cornwall is practical for day trips from very far afield. It’s too much out on a limb and takes so long to get there. Even from Exeter it can take up to 2 hours or more to reach some destinations in Cornwall.
I’m not really sure that Cornwall is practical for day trips from very far afield. It’s too much out on a limb and takes so long to get there. Even from Exeter it can take up to 2 hours or more to reach some destinations in Cornwall.
I'm not quite sure how my suggestion of through trains to popular holiday destinations has turned into a discussion about day trips. I would like to go to (for example) Cornwall and stay for a week, without the tedious 350 mile drive each way. As a bonus maybe, I would like a local public transport add-on.
A few years back, there were through trains from Lancashire to various South West destinations, but I think those were operated by Cross Country, so when the remit of CC changed, the trains went, thus proving the point that the system is operated more for the convenience of the industry rather than the customer.
With the current set up, if I want to get somewhere on a single train, it's down to Glasgow, Edinburgh, Penrith, Carlisle and Coventry. I could go to Birmingham or that place down south, but I can find no reason to visit either. I'm sure there could be more through trains in Scotland to Inverness, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen and so on, which only seem to operate on the East Coast line. I can't believe that I'm not the only one who would take advantage of these journeys, and be able to leave the car at home.
I recall a couple of years back taking a train from Newcastle to Alnmouth, which turned out to be a train on a quite absurd route from Penzance to Glasgow via Edinburgh. Very few people would use the entire journey, but the options are very good for part journeys.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
There's another entire discussion there. I don't think that the wider population realise just how much damage holiday homes have done to the South West, and the knock-on effect of their existence.
A few years back, there were through trains from Lancashire to various South West destinations, but I think those were operated by Cross Country, so when the remit of CC changed, the trains went, thus proving the point that the system is operated more for the convenience of the industry rather than the customer.
If removing those services allows the stock and staff to be used to provide different services elsewhere, and/or to allow other services to run more reliably, then all it's proving is that the industry is operated for the convenience of somebody other than you.
If removing those services allows the stock and staff to be used to provide different services elsewhere, and/or to allow other services to run more reliably, then all it's proving is that the industry is operated for the convenience of somebody other than you.
I do hate it when the discussion becomes personal rather that keeping to the script, but I suppose I have to get used to that. Now back to reality.
Surprisingly there is a massive proportion of the population lives in Lancashire and other parts of a route from (say) Inverness to Penzance. Such a trip would create a single journey for potentially millions of customers along different parts of the route, and all that such a route is in reality is 4 existing journeys being replaced by using the same train. There may be a need to do a bit of timetable shuffling, but it is well within the realms of being practical, especially if people thank along the lines of 'How can we do this' rather than 'how can we come up with an excuse not to do this'.
Well it's a valid point - you want a reliable direct service from Lancs to Cornwall a couple of times a year. Far more people want a reliable service between, for example, Bristol and Exeter or Birmingham and Bristol and may be using it daily. It's right that the rail network focusses on providing the best service to the biggest "groups" rather than providing an average or poor service to lots of smaller "groups". You may not like that, but it isn't a personal attack for someone to point out your demands aren't as important as others.
Your post quite literally described your preferences and your situation. The reality is that you don't represent every single potential rail traveller in Britain.
Such a trip would create a single journey for potentially millions of customers along different parts of the route, and all that such a route is in reality is 4 existing journeys being replaced by using the same train.
And if replacing those four services with a single through train is the best way of providing said services than it's fine. If, however, it isn't the best way of providing those services, than the decision has potentially inconvenienced a great many of those short-distance passengers.
As an aside - I'd suggest that you start a new topic to continue this discussion if you so desire, since it's not really on-top for reforming the ALR.
Many larger hotels have lost business as their customers are the ones that now have holiday homes, which were the homes the hotel staff used to live in before they were driven out to cheaper rented accommodation requiring them to drive to work instead of walk.
Trying to create excursion trains to random seaside towns is problematic in a world where people are competing with flights to places with reliable weather and lower population densities that can sustain enormous resorts if necessary.
I think the future of the railway for leisure lies in turn-up-and-go frequencies, reasonable fares, high traffic loadings and as fast as we can make them.
Cornwall will never realistically compete with the likes of Spain, but it does have the advantage that it is quite plausible that infrastructure could be built to make it into a daytrip destination for much of the population.
And campsites. But how many people go on holiday and don't put anything at all into the local economy, not even a quick ice cream or a fiver in the parking meter (if they drive)?
Back to the ALR, I think it will always be fairly niche. What might well sell is a package of a return journey to Cornwall and a week's bus and train Rover, perhaps. But even then, in my view it is better to do that sort of thing by way of a tourist tax like the Swiss do, as if you are paying for local public transport anyway you might use it even if you drive there.
I have not done an ALR since the 1990s. I did some long-distance day trips from home, other times I found a B&B for overnight stays - it was usually possible to find somewhere "on spec" (and affordable) in many towns. I gave up because it was getting a bit expensive, and because long journeys every day was starting to feel like hard work.
I think they would sell a lot more rovers & rangers if they got much better publicity. Finding a leaflet in a rack at a few stations (if you are lucky) is barely adequate. Many regular rail users have probably never heard of rover / ranger tickets; there ought to be (at least) prominently displayed posters at most stations in each "rover area".
Many larger hotels have lost business as their customers are the ones that now have holiday homes, which were the homes the hotel staff used to live in before they were driven out to cheaper rented accommodation requiring them to drive to work instead of walk.
This can be an issue. I've been to some places where every other cottage is a tourist home and it does kill the place. I think there needs to be a limit on numbers and good hotel provision.
Cornwall is an extremely popular holiday destination that does compete very well with the likes of Spain.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
And campsites. But how many people go on holiday and don't put anything at all into the local economy, not even a quick ice cream or a fiver in the parking meter (if they drive)?
Back to the ALR, I think it will always be fairly niche. What might well sell is a package of a return journey to Cornwall and a week's bus and train Rover, perhaps. But even then, in my view it is better to do that sort of thing by way of a tourist tax like the Swiss do, as if you are paying for local public transport anyway you might use it even if you drive there.
The issue with going somewhere for a week and not spending any money there is something less associated with rail travel as you need motor transport to bring everything with you !
I think that the point of the ALR is that you don't need to invent something new, just tweak something that already exists !
I think they would sell a lot more rovers & rangers if they got much better publicity. Finding a leaflet in a rack at a few stations (if you are lucky) is barely adequate. Many regular rail users have probably never heard of rover / ranger tickets; there ought to be (at least) prominently displayed posters at most stations in each "rover area".
Funnily enough leaflets have gone out of fashion, there's this new fangled thing around I'm told which is accessible from almost anywhere and doesn't go out of date the day after it is printed. I think it's called "the internet" ?
Funnily enough leaflets have gone out of fashion, there's this new fangled thing around I'm told which is accessible from almost anywhere and doesn't go out of date the day after it is printed. I think it's called "the internet" ?
Which has 100% of the attention of the public, especially those older ones who have the time to travel. Of course, if they haven't actually heard of Rover tickets, they will easily be able to guess where this information is displayed due to their sixth sense.
A well planned ALR can be excellent value (7 day £450 MOD railcard) but my 1st attempt without use of the internet I missed my first connection ruining the whole of my first day missing out on some lines I wished to cover.
Travelling 1st was a must for me as the utilisation of lounges and the food were a god send as I planned to travel with only 1 night accommodation paid for, 2 sleepers, 1 at a family member and 2 dozing the all night routes.
My second attempt the following year with internet I only planned my daily final destination and used B&B’s.
Never had any staff issues and got used to barriers that didn’t work.
I'm still trying to work out how an "All Line Rover" can be seen as attractive with the prices charged. I assume that nobody would even consider them without a railcard, so to compare railcard prices. It seems priced only to attract real enthusiasts trying to plan a rail journey carefully and spend most of the day on the train or at a station.
2nd Class (including £30 for a railcard) £570 and 1st Class (including £30 for a railcard) £855. For just one week.
This offers a few fast and comfortable trains on the main lines from the South East, and generally a poor service on lines crossing the country between these main lines or to the coasts.
Compare this with the cost of an adult full price Interrail card
£572 2nd class and £762 1st Class for a whole month.
Offering far more long distance trains with a much better coverage in all directions.
If this is considered a fair price for European travel, then our prices are at best double what they ought to be.
I'm still trying to work out how an "All Line Rover" can be seen as attractive with the prices charged. I assume that nobody would even consider them without a railcard, so to compare railcard prices. It seems priced only to attract real enthusiasts trying to plan a rail journey carefully and spend most of the day on the train or at a station.
2nd Class (including £30 for a railcard) £570 and 1st Class (including £30 for a railcard) £855. For just one week.
This offers a few fast and comfortable trains on the main lines from the South East, and generally a poor service on lines crossing the country between these main lines or to the coasts.
Compare this with the cost of an adult full price Interrail card
£572 2nd class and £762 1st Class for a whole month.
Offering far more long distance trains with a much better coverage in all directions.
If this is considered a fair price for European travel, then our prices are at best double what they ought to be.
Even then it can be hard especially iff you want to ride a class 91 and mk4 coaches from kings x before 1000am in the morning Monday to Friday or travel even on cross country in certain areas because off the peak am time restrictions from certain areas.
However due to covid it looks like for a very very long time that am peak travel Monday to Friday will see plenty off capacity especially before its gets busy with leisure travelers after 0930 am etc.
So why not on a all line rover lower the prices.
Make them a fair price.
Also abolish these am peak early morning restrictions on the all line rover and make it valid anytime.
Have you got the right prices?
National Rail site says £356.40 for 7 days 2nd class with railcard, so £386 including the price of the railcard.
1st class 7 days with railcard £539.90, or £570 including the railcard price.
Funnily enough leaflets have gone out of fashion, there's this new fangled thing around I'm told which is accessible from almost anywhere and doesn't go out of date the day after it is printed. I think it's called "the internet" ?
Even in the days of mass leafleting, TOCs tended to ingore the ALR.
I used to do local rovers all the time, and only discovered the ALR when it was briefly mentioned in one sentence in an email I got from FGW. One of those moments that changed my life somewhat
We are aware of an issue with emails from the Forum to Microsoft-based email accounts (hotmail/outlook/live.com email addresses). This is being looked into currently, thanks for your patience meanwhile.
