Great British Railways: Thoughts, predictions, speculation

[Peter Sarf]

Won't just be the Tube itself, it'll be sleeping better - when I commuted I never got enough sleep.

Yes, all the time, cost and stress. We are drifting off topic but these issues will be the same regardless of who (thinks they) owns or runs the railways.

 

[BrianW]

Yes, all the time, cost and stress. We are drifting off topic but these issues will be the same regardless of who (thinks they) owns or runs the railways.

I think we're rather ON-topic; it will take a while for some folk to return, and some will not return. It's not just Covid, though much is covid-related. Maybe train planners will be more cautious; their 'bosses' more cautious and questioning, and 'tight' regarding expenditure. That will include eg skepicism about delivery, as per GW electrification. Williams-Shapps refers to Oxford, Swansea and Shefield but doesn't commit itself to doing anything about them- even if I've missed it, all 'promises' are open to review as those places can already testify. There's bound to be 'investment-hesitancy' (until the next election hovers- a cynic might suggest). Who will trust passenger number projections,esp if they are seen as self-serving? Some work for consultants there I think. Government will have to be seen to be reducing headcount aka public expenditure/ efficiency/ productivity/ even health gains ... walk/run/cycle to work ... costfree too ...

 

[Peter Sarf]

I think we're rather ON-topic; it will take a while for some folk to return, and some will not return. It's not just Covid, though much is covid-related. Maybe train planners will be more cautious; their 'bosses' more cautious and questioning, and 'tight' regarding expenditure. That will include eg skepicism about delivery, as per GW electrification. Williams-Shapps refers to Oxford, Swansea and Shefield but doesn't commit itself to doing anything about them- even if I've missed it, all 'promises' are open to review as those places can already testify. There's bound to be 'investment-hesitancy' (until the next election hovers- a cynic might suggest). Who will trust passenger number projections,esp if they are seen as self-serving? Some work for consultants there I think. Government will have to be seen to be reducing headcount aka public expenditure/ efficiency/ productivity/ even health gains ... walk/run/cycle to work ... costfree too ...

Makes me think - It is going to take multiples of four year government terms for the effects of Covid to subside to a level that is not obvious !. There will be lots of irony's on the way. remember Labour were blamed for the UK borrowing its way out of the 2007 (ish) recession. How much has the Conservative government borrowed to cope with this Covid recession. I do hope it is not a comparable recession - probably in the sense that things can be switched back on to feed the hoped for pent up demand - demand would be missing from a true recession. Either party will want to get that debt down though.

Thing to remember is that this review and resulting changes would have had less teeth if it were not for Covid. If Covid had not happened what would the results of the review look like ?. Or would the review have been ignored in certain or all parts ?.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will there be any noticeable changes to those large stations that are currently managed by Network Rail?

 

[YorksLad12]

Will there be any noticeable changes to those large stations that are currently managed by Network Rail?

If I understand the Plan for Rail correctly... signs like that large one over the departure boards at Liverpool Street will have their Network Rail branding removed. Platform staff will all become Great British Railways staff rather than divvied up by operator (which will be helpful, if they all know everything). Same with ticket offices (at Leeds we have Northern-run ticket desks opposite LNER branded self-service machines). First Class lounges might be for any First Class ticket holder, not just operator specific. So the NR major stations might become more integrated in the way people think they already are.

 

[BrianW]

If I understand the Plan for Rail correctly... signs like that large one over the departure boards at Liverpool Street will have their Network Rail branding removed. Platform staff will all become Great British Railways staff rather than divvied up by operator (which will be helpful, if they all know everything). Same with ticket offices (at Leeds we have Northern-run ticket desks opposite LNER branded self-service machines). First Class lounges might be for any First Class ticket holder, not just operator specific. So the NR major stations might become more integrated in the way people think they already are.

Large or small, 'rebranding' always takes time, as well as money. I dare say there will be examples still around from BR days, rather like the old GWR seats. Perhaps they will be soon to be 'rescued' collectors' items destined for Ebay?

Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[Wolfie]

Large or small, 'rebranding' always takes time, as well as money. I dare say there will be examples still around from BR days, rather like the old GWR seats. Perhaps they will be soon to be 'rescued' collectors' items destined for Ebay?

Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Wellington (Salop) has a fine selection of GWR and BR(WR) seats....

 

[Annetts key]

Wellington (Salop) has a fine selection of GWR and BR(WR) seats....

All three different designs?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did Network Rail have their own style of branding on station nameboards?

 

[SynthD]

Large or small, 'rebranding' always takes time, as well as money. I dare say there will be examples still around from BR days, rather like the old GWR seats. Perhaps they will be soon to be 'rescued' collectors' items destined for Ebay?

Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Wooden Garden Bench - Great Western Railway GWR Cast Iron Ends/Sides at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

Many of those are listed and can't be removed.

 

[Wolfie]

All three different designs?

Certainly two from what l recall.

 

[YorksLad12]

Did Network Rail have their own style of branding on station nameboards?

Not on the running in boards I think, although there were the stylised letters at Railtrack-owned stations 20-odd years ago. See http://www.johnlloyd.uk.com/lloyd-northover/identity/51/1/.

I was thinking of the sign above the boards in the photo earlier (on Getty Images, so a link rather than a direct image: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...on-may-13-news-photo/1224562034?adppopup=true)

 

[zwk500]

Not on the running in boards I think, although there were the stylised letters at Railtrack-owned stations 20-odd years ago. See http://www.johnlloyd.uk.com/lloyd-northover/identity/51/1/.

I was thinking of the sign above the boards in the photo earlier (on Getty Images, so a link rather than a direct image: https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/detai...on-may-13-news-photo/1224562034?adppopup=true)

There's no NR logo on the platform name boards, but there is a 'style' of white letters on a dark blue background with a circular logo for each station at the NR managed ones.

 

[ABB125]

Wellington (Salop) has a fine selection of GWR and BR(WR) seats....

As does Cardiff Central (well, there are at least a few of each!).

 

[BrianW]

Wellington (Salop) has a fine selection of GWR and BR(WR) seats....

I remember well Collectors' Corner at Euston (Drummond Street)- must be £thousands around- to offset the COST of rebranding?
Maybe a last gasp of 'privatisation'? Maybe some will be removed before time, like steam loco names ...
'Old' tickets also available on Ebay ... maybe various fortunes ahead- a 'silver lining'?

 

[yorksrob]

I wonder if, as a result of this change, the Government will force crappy bog roll ticketing on everyone !

 

[Bletchleyite]

I wonder if, as a result of this change, the Government will force crappy bog roll ticketing on everyone !

The choice is going to be e-ticket, either on your phone, on A4 you printed yourself, or on bog roll (or even white till roll - no security features are needed as the barcode provides those), regardless of whether GBR happened or not. Magstripe will go away pretty quickly - there's a lot of equipment to maintain for it. Tube validity is the only real problem.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder if, as a result of this change, the Government will force crappy bog roll ticketing on everyone !

Are oblong thin card tickets with red stripes top and bottom and with rounded edges still produced these days?

 

[yorksrob]

Are oblong thin card tickets with red stripes top and bottom and with rounded edges still produced these days?

They are, but not on all TOC's.

 

[popeter45]

Are oblong thin card tickets with red stripes top and bottom and with rounded edges still produced these days?

yes, actually got one a few weeks ago for a journey from southend with C2C
as far as ive seen all on site ticket machines still use them, its only the portable ones that do it on paper

 

[Trainer2]

Network Rail meeting unions today and possibly tomorrow to talk through job cut proposals

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Network Rail meeting unions today and possibly tomorrow to talk through job cut proposals

Does this offer the prospect of seeing an RMT Press Release of the type that is guaranteed to bring belly laughs to its readers and incorporating its favourite stock phrases such as "basket cases"...

We are on the Speculative Ideas forum, I hope.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 May 2021 ==

In some ways that's like the [DB] BAHN branding. Bold and simple.

Still flying the flag for Germany, I see. Whatsoever would Captain Mainwaring say in response to such a thought.

 

[43096]

In some ways that's like the [DB] BAHN branding. Bold and simple.

And dumb. Can’t believe there is an official branding that says “Deutsche Bahn Bahn”. It’s from the same chamber of horrors as PIN number and TSB Bank.

 

[Trainer2]

Union talks concluded for now , no official updates, no leaks from trusted sources, all speculation not worthy of mentioning.

1 item of note, cuts or ‘modernisation’ at NR will apply to all departments not only maintenance division.

 

[JaJaWa]

GBR appears to be registered as a company (if that means anything!)

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

 

[XAM2175]

GBR appears to be registered as a company (if that means anything!)

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

I don't think this is the real deal - the application for registration was submitted the day after the first announcement about GBR was made; there are only 100 shares in the company (each of £1.00) and all are held by one person, a Mr Michael Moir who is also the sole Director; there are no other persons registered as having significant control; and the top Google result for the service address of 160 City Road EC1V 2NX is a firm that will lease you the right to register a company at said address for £29.00 per year (with forward of mail included!).

By comparison, Network Rail Limited is registered as a private company limited by guarantee without share capital, at NR's actual head office address of 1 Eversholt Street NW1 2DN, and most instructively shows the Secretary Of State for Transport as a person with significant control over the company. You'll also find that the DfT as a body is shown as having significant control over many of the legacy BR companies.

As an amusing aside, there's also a Great Britain Railways Limited that was incorporated only four days ago and is registered to a "website manager" at a private flat in SW1P 4EY.

 

[RobShipway]

I don't think this is the real deal - the application for registration was submitted the day after the first announcement about GBR was made; there are only 100 shares in the company (each of £1.00) and all are held by one person, a Mr Michael Moir who is also the sole Director; there are no other persons registered as having significant control; and the top Google result for the service address of 160 City Road EC1V 2NX is a firm that will lease you the right to register a company at said address for £29.00 per year (with forward of mail included!).

By comparison, Network Rail Limited is registered as a private company limited by guarantee without share capital, at NR's actual head office address of 1 Eversholt Street NW1 2DN, and most instructively shows the Secretary Of State for Transport as a person with significant control over the company. You'll also find that the DfT as a body is shown as having significant control over many of the legacy BR companies.

As an amusing aside, there's also a Great Britain Railways Limited that was incorporated only four days ago and is registered to a "website manager" at a private flat in SW1P 4EY.

On Linkedin I have found a Michael Moir who until September 2020 was working for the Department of Transport. But also since 2016 has been working as a Technology Consultant.

He has in the past worked as a project manager. So I am presuming, that it is his job to be getting GBR off the ground to be able to take over running from Network Rail at some point in the future?

 

[YorksLad12]

I don't think this is the real deal - the application for registration was submitted the day after the first announcement about GBR was made; there are only 100 shares in the company (each of £1.00) and all are held by one person, a Mr Michael Moir who is also the sole Director; there are no other persons registered as having significant control; and the top Google result for the service address of 160 City Road EC1V 2NX is a firm that will lease you the right to register a company at said address for £29.00 per year (with forward of mail included!).

By comparison, Network Rail Limited is registered as a private company limited by guarantee without share capital, at NR's actual head office address of 1 Eversholt Street NW1 2DN, and most instructively shows the Secretary Of State for Transport as a person with significant control over the company. You'll also find that the DfT as a body is shown as having significant control over many of the legacy BR companies.

As an amusing aside, there's also a Great Britain Railways Limited that was incorporated only four days ago and is registered to a "website manager" at a private flat in SW1P 4EY.

Bet someone went for the domain name as well... There's nothing to say that GBR will be a company limited by guarentee. Or even that that will be its Sunday name, it could just be the trading name.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

GBR appears to be registered as a company (if that means anything!)

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

GREAT BRITISH RAILWAYS LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return, officers, charges, business activity

find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk

That particular name is the type of name of a company that you expect to run vastly-overpriced rail tours...

 

[XAM2175]

He has in the past worked as a project manager. So I am presuming, that it is his job to be getting GBR off the ground to be able to take over running from Network Rail at some point in the future?

I would expect it to be registered by somebody who currently works for the DfT, at an address used by the DfT, with the DfT (or SoSfT personally) shown as having significant control, on or before the day the announcement was made, and without having shares issued.