The latest in what may become a long running series of local news paper articles with slightly over the top click-bait-y headlines: https://www.bedfordshirelive.co.uk/...kCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar
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East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]
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zwk500
Veteran Member
Although the 'terror' is not riding the train, but having to show prospective buyers around with the train in the view...
zwk500
Veteran Member
And quite rightly so, it must knock £20,000 off their house price!
zwk500
Veteran Member
I bet the same person who said that also regularly bemoans the lack of 'proper' rail provision such as fast trains to London and a decent service to MK. Even if they'd never use either anyway.
I used to live on the London to Portsmouth line and it didn't bother me at all. Much better than being on a busy road.
And quite rightly so, it must knock £20,000 off their house price!
Not as much value that would be knocked off if Welwyn North station or the viaduct were to be closed.
zwk500
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richieb1971
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I watched the consultation with the Mayor of Bedford, other councilors and a member of someone who talks directly with EWR. Someone suggested tunneling on the Clapham curve and quite a bit of talk went on about it. It was penciled in as something to debate about at a later time, it certainly wasn't disregarded as trash talk. This means the railway will go under the A6 and leave much of what would be above unscathed and would eradicate the need for a viaduct. Whilst this is speculation at this point, I am making people aware that the conversation took place as fact. Tunneling was also mentioned in regards to Wilden. Apparently the equipment used on HS2 will be free at such time the EWR central section will be built.
I'm not clear where this tunnel would start. Is it supposed to start at Bedford Midland to provide the two extra tracks and avoid any demolition in Bedford? Pretty expensive if so.
If it is just to avoid the viaduct because some consider it unsightly, then it's even more unjustifiable.
Did they mention St John's, @richieb1971? I wonder what practical purpose it serves being so close to Midland, especially if Midland is relocated south.
If it is just to avoid the viaduct because some consider it unsightly, then it's even more unjustifiable.
Did they mention St John's, @richieb1971? I wonder what practical purpose it serves being so close to Midland, especially if Midland is relocated south.
richieb1971
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Just talking as an alternative to building a viaduct, ruining the scenery up above and noise pollution. The tunnel talk was only where it comes in close proximity to homes between Clapham and Brickhill and be on the new build beyond the curve/junction. And where it comes in close proximity to Wilden homes. Some people representing Wilden said the line would go through back gardens so its pretty darn close unless they have acres of land.
The person who asked the question about tunneling seemed to have insight to how tunneling works and the equipment available from HS2, but the people he was asking in the committee group did not have that knowledge so they were going to present this information to EWR later to see if it was a viable option. The questioners main aim was to avoid disruption to closing the A6 and to appease the residents complaints about noise pollution and scenery change.
== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==
St Johns was mentioned in the beginning at the powerpoint presentation stage, but I assume everyone here is aware of the western and southern options. There was a 5 minute talk about why the original varsity alignment wasn't chosen and whilst I cannot give all the details, the list of negatives was long enough to not warrant further investigation even by my standards of open mindedness.
Jowitt sidings was mentioned, about where 12 car trains would then be parked if EWR took 2 of the tracks and if platforms would reside south of Ford end road for EWR. A surprising call was that Thameslink could takeover the Corby services and park as far north as Corby making 12 car trains "Though trains" at Bedford.
Many people wanted the southern option to be considered again, with Wixams station being a centerPoint of discussion. But the powers that be seem to want Wixams to be a Thameslink served station only.
Freight was discussed. From what I remember councillor Headley stated that the railway would be primarily a passenger railway and that no known freight traffic paths have been discussed at any level. He did state very clearly that extra infrastructure would be required to get freight on and off EWR that currently isn't planned which makes sense. He made mention that Cambridge has at best 12 free paths for freight a day and that is another obstacle of freight reaching EWR from places like Felixstowe. A question about the incinerator site at Stewartby having trains deliver content for incinerating was brought up and whilst they stated it wasn't currently on the table all agreed if it would be such a bad thing to take 100's of trucks/lorries off the road. Maybe the questioner planted a seed there.
Dave Hodgson got to answer a lot of questions about ruining the countryside. Which he eventually said "There are swathes of countyside to north of Bedford, to the south of Bedford, to the East and to the West, you cannot build a railway without ruining some countryside" which put a grin on my face.
Some questioners stated the railway doesn't have a business case as strong as it did in 2019 since the pandemic started. That the railway would take business and custom away from Bedford, not bring more to it. Dave Hodgson said that when businesses approach him, its always connectivity that is their primary concern. Dave went on to say he is getting government grants to decorate outside the station the same as it is currently being paved and refurbed in the High street to make the initial impression better for Bedford for those getting off the train. Dave also mentioned quite a bit about the government asking Bedfordshire to build 1000's of homes a year, and that to facilitate connectivity for these people, the railway needs to be built.
Talk of improving Bedford station itself, of a up fast platform being built. Apparently there is a model being built which nobody has seen yet. They know some of the options but until the powers that be actually showed them the plans they didn't want to go into it too much. Platforms south of Ford end road and access from Queens park (west of the fast lines) were briefly spoken about.
Electrification - Quite a few people wanted the railway electrified. The Mayor, councilors and others all agreed it should be electrified from the outset. It was briefly said that other options may exist. I believe the government want to see if a hydrogen/green option is available without OHLE before they go and sign off on OHLE. That is me reading between the lines though. But if you heard what I heard, you would think the same thing.
If you have any other questions....
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TheHSRailFan
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I was there on a field right below it a few weeks ago and I heard little sound at all.
Knowing modern tech and engineering, this can be overcome easily. There's many places that have sound and shock absorption engineered stuff so nothing too bad to really get in-depth into. I have seen the bridge path but not what it will look like which would be nice.
Steve Harris
Member
Thanks for the update @richieb1971
Btw any members on here who want to wilfly neglect the views of the householder's who are going to find a railway line at the end of their garden, send me your address, as I know someone who wants to build a 150m test tower and I'm sure you wouldn't mind that at the end of "your" garden !
Btw any members on here who want to wilfly neglect the views of the householder's who are going to find a railway line at the end of their garden, send me your address, as I know someone who wants to build a 150m test tower and I'm sure you wouldn't mind that at the end of "your" garden !
jfowkes
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I wouldn't mind at all.
People have lived with railway embankments, bridges, cuttings, tunnels etc. for years. It's fine.
Imagine the people of Clifton objecting to Brunel building a new bridge in their back yard. These days you'd pay a premium for a house with a view.
What an excellent and full contribution. Thank you.
I guess people (including me) are inclined to argue from a personal point of view. At least we are able to have our say if not our way.
I admit to feeling rather often that 'Mayor Dave' is looking for the spotlight, but he is elected and that's his role. Someone has to do it
Main thing it seems to me at the moment with Shapps-Williams just published is to be 'on the field'/ in the mix, getting heard and standing some chance of getting things done. The great can be the enemy of the good. Green, electric, rail, community, local outworking of national goals, win-win-win-win-win ...
Had a less than encouraging dialogue with St Neots Town mayor/chairman (who holds the balance of power at Cambs CC now) who objects to EWR on the grounds that autonomous cars will make it obsolete - ha! - and local Greens who are objecting because they want electric buses on the new A428 instead. Anyone got a brick wall I can bang my head against?
Not if I get there first, you won't.
I cannot fathom our national obsession with hating rail development and offering up this that and the other as some sort of (unproven) panacea.
How about a Cambridgeshire Autonomous Brick Wall?
On a more serious note, it’s just as well that neither the county council nor the Greens are making the decisions in this instance!
Amazing how Greens are always arguing against rail projects on the basis that something else is supposedly greener.
Perhaps we need to 'get real' and look at the plank in our own eye and try to see us- the rail lobby/ trainspotters/ enthusiasts- as others see us? Rail at all costs? Are we putting our own money into EWR? How often will we use it? Many (most?) in the EWR 'corridor'/ Economic Heartland will own and use a car. An Autonomous/ Driverless car will let them read their electronic 'papers' while 'driving', on the odd occasion they need to travel east-west. Cambridge and Cambridgeshire 'boffins'/ politicos will be working at and from home and flying to Boston or Japan. They may be working on battery/ hydrogen technology/ Artificial Intelligence/ algorithms- they won't be making them- that will be done in Korea/ Malaysia/ Vietnam/ ...
There are ALREADY autonomous vehicles- starships- in MK.
What is a train for or best at?? What is EWR for? Only askin'.
St Neots- London 2-3tph, under an hour, what's not to like?
There are ALREADY autonomous vehicles- starships- in MK.
What is a train for or best at?? What is EWR for? Only askin'.
St Neots- London 2-3tph, under an hour, what's not to like?
Steve Harris
Member
You have hit the nail right on the head !!!
There is a lot of objection south of Cambridge to EWR, as all "they" can perceive is tall railway embankments with dirty/un-green trains which sail straight through because no station is being built for "them". So they can't use them and will see no benefit.
With the modern world that doesn't really surprise me (hell, we are in the middle of a pandemic but people still feel "they have a right" to go abroad on holiday! Yet some people will never see a holiday because someone else brought back a deadly disease on their holiday which killed them).
Personally I see both sides of the argument. I'm not anti rail but I can see EWR isn't able to do itself much in the way of favours (to win people over) on the bit which has to be a totally new alignment.
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edwin_m
Veteran Member
We should certainly always consider whether there are better solutions than spending huge sums on a brand new rail line. However, unlike some that are suggested on this forum, I believe it is justified in this case.
The region stretching 80 miles or so northwards from the northern edge of London is quite densely populated but the reduction of the rail network in the 1960s got rid of all the "orbital" rail lines, other than a couple that escaped but didn't connect widely enough to be very useful. At the time traffic congestion was fairly minor, it was realised that rail was still needed to travel into London but implicitly people would rely on cars or sometimes buses for other journeys. Now that almost everyone has a car, congestion is that much worse and generates a vicious spiral where the bus services deteriorate and bus passenger start driving instead. Autonomous cars won't in themselves change the amount of traffic congestion significantly, and could even increase it if they lead to more car use, and there remain the problems of noise, accidents, and pollution issues from obtaining the battery materials and from tyre particulates.
The question of the future of commuting after Covid is a valid one, and nobody yet knows the answer. Perhaps if the bottom really drops out of the commuter market the later and more expensive bits of EWR will be cancelled before construction starts. But most projections seem to suggest it will recover to about 80%, which is about where it was in the early 21st century when overcrowding on rail was already a problem. So it's reasonable to progress the scheme towards being "shovel ready" in the meantime by advancing the design, undertaking consultation and ultimately applying for legal powers. Not everyone in Oxbridge is a "boffin", but those people will probably be travelling more than typical office workers - lectures will still take place in person, most scientific experiments can't be done from home and the general view seems to be that creativity is enhanced if people are exposed to random interaction for at least some of the time. So the boffins may not be at their workplaces 9 to 5 - they probably weren't before the pandemic - but they will need to be there for quite a lot of the time.
The success of the busway shows that a reliable segregated public transport link can attract worthwhile numbers of passengers in the same general area. EWR is a more ambitious version of the same concept, with longer distances making rail more appropriate, and a lot of computer modelling will have gone on behind the scenes to quantify the expected ridership and establish that it is the best option for serving existing and new communities.
Steve Harris
Member
You have left out 1 vital point. The reason for congestion is not simply because nearly everyone has a car, there has been a massive increase in commuting (as people can't afford to buy property near where they work).
As you rightly say, not everyone in Oxbridge is a "boffin", but because of the "boffins" they have been forced out into the surrounding village's due to them not getting "boffin" wages and therefore a house in the City. Unfortunately EWR isn't really going to get those non-boffins out of their car and onto the train (e.g. first stop outside Cambridge is going to be Cambourne with all the intermediate village's not getting a station, (remembering Cambridge metro is now dead)). Yes admittedly it will cut congestion on longer distance journey's, but I can't really see much benefit for shorter journey's.
The reason we have so much congestion in this country is due to a plethora of things... bad planning, (not enough houses, flats, bungalows), bad foresight, bad governance.... I could go on, but I'm sure those with an objective view will understand the point I'm making.
But the point of stopping at Cambourne etc is to give somewhere for the "move-outer-ers" to move to that doesn't depend on driving (or an unreliable/irregular bus) to get into Central Cambridge employment. Which is basically the main reason for Cambridge/Oxford congestion.
Park and Ride / Cycling interventions are the way to go for the "inner" villages within a few miles of the city. If you add stops to EWR itself it becomes less effective at serving the longer flows.
Steve Harris
Member
I'm fully aware of why they will be stopping at Cambourne!
You say "move-outer-ers", what about the people who have already been forced out (who are living in Great Gransden, Potton, Gamlingay, Biggleswade) ?
As you correctly say "If you add stops to EWR itself it becomes less effective at serving the longer flows". But by not serving the shorter flows EWR is/going to stoke up a lot of NIMBYsm, because those NIMBY's won't get any benefit from EWR!!
As I see it, EWR will only be a benefit to people living in Cambourne or who haven't moved into the area yet. It does very little for the people who already live in the surrounding village's (and btw, have you ever tried cycling from Cambridge to Madingley?). Yes some villagers can be able to cycle in, but contrary to what some people think, Cambridge and the surrounding area is not 100% flat !
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