Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[AM9]

How much do the end cars with the diesel engines weigh? I suspect they weigh less than the car with the traction motors.

Here's my estimation of class 769 tare weights:

DTSO(A) with full fuel tank - 37 tonnes​

MSO - 50.5 tonnes​

TSOL - 31 tonnes​

DTSO(B) with full fuel tank - 37.7 tonnes​

note: I have added on 8 tonnes per genset/fueltank/fuel and ancillaries. I have seen 7.5 tonnes quoted, but there are also additional earth cables so the additional half tonne easily compensates for that.
But...
Lockdowns excepted, trains don't normally run around empty so a worse case must include passengers, (calculated at 80Kg each) and the weights then become:

DTSO(A) - 43 tonnes​

MSO - 57 tonnes​

TSOL - 37 tonnes​

DTSO(B) - 43.7 tonnes​

Note, I have only included seated passengers, as 319s these trains have been rattling up and down the MML and BML at as near to 100mph as the driver can get them with at least another 15 tonnes of humans on board.
The MSO weight far exceeds the DTSOs with diesel engines, so unless the track on the Bolton to Salford Crescent stretch is particularly flaky, I can't see any such restrictions on 769 speeds being enforced for long given that the 319s aren't constrained in that way.
The emergency braking system of the 319s was increased to 12%G for the /4s when they were introduced, and I believe that all of the class was progressively modified to that in the following years. They certainly used their brakes a lot on the MML.

 

[peters]

As a comparison

This service was operated by 150105: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L10105/2021-05-20/detailed#allox_id=0
This service was operated by 769448: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L10122/2021-05-20/detailed#allox_id=0
This service was operated by 319366: https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:L08236/2021-05-20/detailed#allox_id=0

The 769 arrived 1 minute early at Slade Lane Junction but the 150 was 1 late before Slade Lane Junction and arrived there on time, so nothing in it.

 

[175001]

Not on Piccadilly-Wilmslow then?

Not that I'm aware.

But at Victoria we've only seen a notice about the Bolton section, although we have a 769 docket that begins at Stockport and there no restriction on that section.

 

[craigybagel]

They are only limited to 75mph between Bolton and Salford due to weight.

Although there's not a hope they'll get above 75mph anywhere else unless running ECS anyway.

 

[Jamesrob637]

They seem to have been quite reliable in the four days until today.

Edit: think one had a problem earlier today.

 

[_toommm_]

Although there's not a hope they'll get above 75mph anywhere else unless running ECS anyway.

Could they get up to 75 if they were on the fast lines between Manchester and Stockport?

Can’t imagine them getting up to 75 south of there on stopping services to Alderley.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Not that I'm aware.

But at Victoria we've only seen a notice about the Bolton section, although we have a 769 docket that begins at Stockport and there no restriction on that section.

In which case it doesn't seem to be a blanket restriction as the Railway Gazette implied.

 

[craigybagel]

Could they get up to 75 if they were on the fast lines between Manchester and Stockport?

Can’t imagine them getting up to 75 south of there on stopping services to Alderley.

The line speed is 90 from Slade Lane to Heaton Norris so in theory yes - whether or not they have the performance to do it or not I can't say. More likely Northbound than South. Even if they can, they're not going to get much past 75 - it would be seconds saved at best.

 

[43102EMR]

They seem to have been quite reliable in the four days until today.

Edit: think one had a problem earlier today.

Well it only took them 3 years since the first conversion to get them into traffic, you’d think they’d be running almost fault free!

 

[175001]

Although there's not a hope they'll get above 75mph anywhere else unless running ECS anyway.

We got to 95 on diesel mode on my practical handling run ha

 

[Jamesrob637]

There is one 2-car out today. Whether booked or 769 failure is unclear.

 

[PHILIPE]

There is one 2-car out today. Whether booked or 769 failure is unclear.

2 Car what ?

 

[175001]

769456 made it out of the turnback sidings at Vic but no further.

156426 operated the 0637 to Southport in its place

 

[DannyMich2018]

769456 made it out of the turnback sidings at Vic but no further.

156426 operated the 0637 to Southport in its place

According to RTT 434, 442, 448, 450 and 458 all are out today. Pretty good really and timekeeping looks good too.

 

[Geeves]

456 went back into the turnback on engine power, driver said it had various fault lights lit, it cant go to NH as no one up there signs them today!

 

[175001]

Tremendous!

 

[D9006]

769456 made it out of the turnback sidings at Vic but no further.

156426 operated the 0637 to Southport in its place

Is 0637 not a sprinter, this service goes via hag fold, are 769s cleared for that route

769456 made it out of the turnback sidings at Vic but no further.

156426 operated the 0637 to Southport in its place

is the 0637 not a sprinter diagram it runs via hag fold , are 769s cleared that way

 

[175001]

Nope. It's booked a 769. As is the last one from Southport, which also traverses the Atherton line

 

[Gricer99]

I was really surprised about that. Hardly worth raising the pants by the time you have got to Salford Crescent!

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was really surprised about that. Hardly worth raising the pants by the time you have got to Salford Crescent!

Now there's an unfortunate auto-correct... (that is, unless you know something we don't about the City of Salford)

 

[D9006]

What’s this , never known 6 carriages on Southport line

 

[sportzbar]

What’s this , never known 6 carriages on Southport line

That's got to be an error. 150 and 769 have completely different couplers so aren't compatible in normal passenger service...

 

[D9006]

According to real times, it’s operating as a 6 car all the way to alderley edge but the return working is showing just the 769

 

[_toommm_]

It’ll be a set swap, but the data hasn’t had a chance to update properly so RTT receives the allocation as a 150 and a 769.

 

[D9006]

Even return working is now showing as a 6 car was showing just as the 769 on its own earlier

 

[175001]

What’s this , never known 6 carriages on Southport line

It's a class 919....

 

[Geeves]

Yeah something has got confused somewhere! The 769 is correct but 150130 is with 120 on a totally different job leaving Southport at 1036

 

[D9006]

I was going out to get a video of this rare combination too, but as said by someone earlier the couplings are different

 

[Techniquest]

Reports from Kite159 that 769434 is on the delayed 0917 Southport-Alderley Edge this morning

 

[D9006]

Reports from Kite159 that 769434 is on the delayed 0917 Southport-Alderley Edge this morning

9 late start from Southport and 9 late just leaving Bolton