Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

[221101 Voyager]

They maybe the ones going off lease but dont quote me on that

The /2s are going off lease. /1s are staying, so I presume some of them have been left plain for new branding perhaps?

Yes, I like it.

I did something not too dissimilar a while back, although it was based the idea of vertically integrated reginal companies fanning out of the London terminals (Overground, Merseyrail, TfW & Scotrail not included). It's heavily based on the Japanese railway model...

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 21 May 2021 ==

I never did any livery for these but I always envisioned a play on the logo somewhat similar to the old HTV logo.

Thanks

I was just thinking, in Germany they have the ICE white with red stripe livery, they've had that since the 90's and still looks good.

Maybe if we had a simple livery like my proposals it would be a simple design that is timeless like the ICE livery.

 

[physics34]

The /2s are going off lease. /1s are staying, so I presume some of them have been left plain for new branding perhaps?

Ah, thanks for that. But if they havent been rebranded for months, why have EMR been rebranding their stuff and SWR etc...

 

[221101 Voyager]

Ah, thanks for that. But if they havent been rebranded for months, why have EMR been rebranding their stuff and SWR etc...

Hmm, it's all a bit confusing, just like the system itself really!

 

[Bletchleyite]

They maybe the ones going off lease but dont quote me on that

No, they're not, the 350/2s are the ones going off lease and those are all in LM livery with LNR stickers.

 

[Gareth]

The /2s are going off lease. /1s are staying, so I presume some of them have been left plain for new branding perhaps?


Thanks

I was just thinking, in Germany they have the ICE white with red stripe livery, they've had that since the 90's and still looks good.

Maybe if we had a simple livery like my proposals it would be a simple design that is timeless like the ICE livery.

I had a little go on MS Paint. I was envisioning this sort of thing, with the main body being a different colour depending on region...

 

[AdamWW]

At the end of the day GBR are saying they want a more consistent identity, what on earth are they going to come up with I wonder, no doubt they'll pay some mug millions to design a dull and uninspiring brand and image. When they could've hired me for free!

The report does point out that keeping the BR logo avoids having to spend money on "yet another new railway logo".

 

[221101 Voyager]

I had a little go on MS Paint. I was envisioning this sort of thing, with the main body being a different colour depending on region...

That's not bad actually, but it would be very expensive to do a whole train red, not to mention how bad it will look when it fades.

The report does point out that keeping the BR logo avoids having to spend money on "yet another new railway logo".

Oh goody!

That's a part of my dream come true right there, being able to travel on a normal service train with our iconic symbol on the side as opposed to all the privatised branding rubbish we've had since before I was born!

 

[AdamWW]

That's not bad actually, but it would be very expensive to do a whole train red, not to mention how bad it will look when it fades.

Oh goody!

That's a part of my dream come true right there, being able to travel on a normal service train with our iconic symbol on the side as opposed to all the privatised branding rubbish we've had since before I was born!

Well last year in Wales you could travel on a service train hauled by a locomotive with a very large version of the logo on.

I hope GBR won't be objecting to the engines that are currently in the large logo livery.

 

[221101 Voyager]

Well last year in Wales you could travel on a service train hauled by a locomotive with a very large version of the logo on.

I hope GBR won't be objecting to the engines that are currently in the large logo livery.

True, I suppose but it's was not a train thats would be in service for many years to come.

I'm sure they won't object, there is only a few engines with Large logo.

 

[BrianW]

274 posts to look back on so apologies if all said before:

Rail Track Changes
Great Beeching Reversals
Great Boris Renationisation by another name smelling sweet
Titanic Deckchairs
Jam Tomorrow
Union Railways

Such fun ...

 

[irish_rail]

Ok, how about this -

Ok, how about this -

View attachment 96728

This i love. A consistent branding across the entire UK. And looks timeless and classy in my opinion. As others pointed out, swallow isn't coming back, but this is good stuff. Its a shame that I just can't see in my heart of hearts anything like this happening. But i really hope it does.

 

[221101 Voyager]

This i love. A consistent branding across the entire UK. And looks timeless and classy in my opinion. As others pointed out, swallow isn't coming back, but this is good stuff. Its a shame that I just can't see in my heart of hearts anything like this happening. But i really hope it does.

Thank you for your feedback!

Well, I'm sure we'll find out the new identity for our railways soon enough, I'm really excited to actually see what the designers come up with.

 

[MotCO]

I like some of these suggested liveries. Another option is to have the same base colour for all rolling stock, but paint the doors in the colour of TOC. Then if stock moves between companies, you only have to paint the doors.

Also, the Swallow emblem is classy. Maybe the long distance trains could have an up to date stylised version of the Swallow.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

@XAM2175 , @Bletchleyite , @PerryPacer , @Gareth
Seen as you guys liked my 91 mockups, I thought I do some on 80x trains and a 745 for Anglia.

Best part about all these designs is that they would use the same shade of silver as the base colour and the same colour for the doors. The only colour variatons are for each region.


'InterCity Great Western' IEP
View attachment 96690


'InterCity East Coast' Azuma
View attachment 96692

'InterCity West Coast' IEP

View attachment 96693
'InterCity East Midlands' Aurora
View attachment 96694

'InterCity East Anglia'
V1
View attachment 96698
V2
View attachment 96699
I designed these all this morning

You’re very skilled and talented, but the Intercity logo and stripes do date the trains

 

[221101 Voyager]

I like some of these suggested liveries. Another option is to have the same base colour for all rolling stock, but paint the doors in the colour of TOC. Then if stock moves between companies, you only have to paint the doors.

Also, the Swallow emblem is classy. Maybe the long distance trains could have an up to date stylised version of the Swallow.

Now that is something I'd LOVE to see!

 

[fat_boy_pete]

They're planning to use Rail Alphabet 2.0 and the double arrow, so you might want get something like:

[Double Arrow] | Great British Railways | Great Eastern

For more background on Rail Alphabet 2 see https://www.networkrail.co.uk/stori...-at-exhibition-celebrating-1960s-design-icon/

And more detail https://thebeautyoftransport.com/20...ayfinding-signage-and-rail-alphabet-2-part-1/

And here https://www.spaceagency-design.com/networkrail

And here https://www.a2-type.co.uk/commission-type

As I understand it, the font will become ubiquitous on Stations over time. And on trains?

 

[irish_rail]

I think (sadly) rather than any kind of intercity branding happening, what is more plausible is the different regions that are being talked about . So Wales and Western etc etc . Although I do think this will be an opportunity missed as Intercity would help improve the look of services it describes.

 

[CBlue]

I don't think harking back to the past (especially one that increasing numbers don't remember) with swallows and 1980s Intercity branding is really the way to go?

Painting itself as some kind of anachronism isn't going to sell seats to mr. car driver.

 

[Scotrail314209]

I must say. If it's all going to become one livery and brand, won't things get a little bit bland?

 

[CBlue]

I must say. If it's all going to become one livery and brand, won't things get a little bit bland?

I think how interesting enthusiasts find new branding to be is the least of the railway networks worries

 

[Scotrail314209]

I think how interesting enthusiasts find new branding to be is the least of the railway networks worries

Sure it will look good. But I'm not speaking as an enthusiast, but my opinion as a travelling and fare paying passenger. The different liveries we see right now make things a bit more interesting.

Yes, a uniform brand will make things easier, but the railway then loses its slight individuality.

 

[irish_rail]

Sure it will look good. But I'm not speaking as an enthusiast, but my opinion as a travelling and fare paying passenger. The different liveries we see right now make things a bit more interesting.

Yes, a uniform brand will make things easier, but the railway then loses its slight individuality.

I think it could be argued that it is this individuality that is causing great confusion to Joe and Jane Bloggs on our system.
A little uniformity and simplicity may be a good thing from a none enthusiast perspective.

 

[StephenHunter]

I must say. If it's all going to become one livery and brand, won't things get a little bit bland?

You'll still have all the different rolling stock. That's how I imagine the enthusiasts coped in the 1970s.

 

[YorksLad12]

In that case we'd be seeing the return of MetroTrain and Network South Yorkshire which were the names used for the Regional Railways services in both West and South Yorkshire.

Unlikley. MetroTrain was phased out in favour of West Yorkshire's Railway on the map, and not mentioned at all elsewhere (announcements, for example). Then WYCA turned the map all-black and stopped printing timetables to save money.

Adding a double arrow on the carriages would be a simple update. Standardising the typefaces used in publicity and timetables across the network would be fairly easy as most of it is updated twice a year anyway. If something like this happened, at least in the short term, I'd not be completely surprised:
View attachment 96636

This, I like. Far too sensible though, so unlikely to happen!

We could always just paint everything british racing green.

Or battleship grey.

Sometimes I wonder if I'm too boring.

Earlier today there was an EMR Intercity-liveried Meridian in Leeds P1 (odd place for it to be but there you go). Cream and grey with purple doors. Renationalisation and "boring" liveries can't come soon enough.

Honestly, I look back at the original British Rail redesign manual and even now it strikes me how clean, easy to understand, and even modern it looks. It was flat design before it was trendy.

It's a design language and brand scheme that has survived well beyond BR for a reason. It works, really well.

The design manual will be the key. The old BR design was still being rolled out in some places just before privatisation! It's not going to be an overnight task. I found a scan someone did of a page that described the arrow... lifted that, traced over it for the ones I used on my Yorkshire Railways map.

I'm liking the look of Rail Alphabet 2. They used it throughout the report and it worked well as titles and body copy. The trick will be in applying it consistently and legibly, and there are hundreds if not thousands of possible use cases across the railways (Great British or otherwise).

 

[krus_aragon]

I personally like this Lion logo posted by Tim Dunn on twitter a few years ago
View attachment 96490

https://twitter.com/MrTimDunn/status/912009372292780033

That strikes me as design very much of its time: the old Lion Rampant of British Railways combined with the angled pointwork (in the arms) of the later BR logo. Yet it also has a somewhat mediaeval feel to it, somehow. A very interesting design, though I might not choose it today.

I just don't get this view at all. We must be the only country in the world ashamed of our flag. Literally every country displays it proudly, and many even stick it on their trains e.g. US, Canada, Switzerland...

As Michael Flanders once pointed out, every other country's stamps have the name of the country on them, but UK/GB never did, because they were the original stamps, and didn't need to specify a country.

 

[OldNick]

I reckon all over white with different bold colour door highlights (for visual disability compliance) to denote region, matching font colour and a prominent red BR logo.

Sadly I reckon all the promo photos suggest gaudy full 3D effect union flag vinyl wraps like British Airways on steroids.

(Off topic I know, but there is plenty in our history and the current attitudes of the government and our population towards certain groups which prove why we are not a great country and why some might feel ashamed of our flag, and prefer not to have it plastered over everything. Some of those attitudes are even on display in this thread!)

 

[AdamWW]

I'm liking the look of Rail Alphabet 2. They used it throughout the report and it worked well as titles and body copy. The trick will be in applying it consistently and legibly, and there are hundreds if not thousands of possible use cases across the railways (Great British or otherwise).

Is the body text in Rail? I doesn't look like it to me, but then I think Rail 2 comes in various different flavours and I don't know what they all look like.

(Also, since I was forced to update Windows and despite installing the latest display drivers manually, my computer has become a bit creative in how it displays text...)

Page 2 of the pdf though just says that it's used for the headings in the document.

 

[UP13]

If repainting must be done then I'd go for the same livery for everything. Probably something similar to NSE, not for sentimental reasons but the colours march the theme Boris clearly wants...

The railways are not for enthusiasts so it is wishful thinking for a return to 1980s InterCity liveries and logos.

People mention confusion for passengers if there isn't regional liveries etc. Passengers look at the information board to know what train it is not the livery...

Londoners don't get confused by all London Underground services having the same livery or all buses being red...

One livery will mean less repainting when operators change and it also means rolling stock can be shifted from one route to another without ruining the aesthetics.

 

[jon0844]

(Off topic I know, but there is plenty in our history and the current attitudes of the government and our population towards certain groups which prove why we are not a great country and why some might feel ashamed of our flag, and prefer not to have it plastered over everything. Some of those attitudes are even on display in this thread!)

The issue isn't the flag, which I am sure everyone is proud of (even non-nationals are likely proud of it if they've chosen to live here), rather the issue is the people that choose to use the flag as a political statement to show some sort of superiority and use their freedom to fly it as a way of attacking foreigners. The people who say 'If you don't like it, why don't you leave' that you'll find anywhere you look - newspaper letters pages, social media, forums, news site commenting sections etc.

The flag got hijacked by the nationalists, and many people who are proud to be British won't fly the flag to avoid being associated with them. That's the problem. People become scared to fly the flag, and those who demand we protect the flag are the very people that stop others from doing so.

The solution would be to 'reclaim' the flag. I bet if some communities proudly flew the flag in their front garden, we'd see a lot of people suddenly lose interest.

There's nothing to suggest GBR will see the Union Flag draped across our trains, or booking halls having flags hanging from the ceiling. It's just that the launch was very much portrayed as 'getting our country back' by a Government desperate to get some wins.

It is worth noting this wasn't really mentioned or considered by the press or the public interviewed. That's because it's a train service and people care about trains running on time and not costing a fortune. Absolutely nothing else matters to them, not the name, the colour scheme or the typeface.

 

[RochdalePioneers]

Has there been any suggestion as to what they have in mind? Some of the franchise designs / branding works very well - gWr, LNER, Southern, Northern. Others less well - Avanti, WMR, EMR. There are brands and designs that could be co-opted depending on what is going to be done.

If we are going to sectorisation (again) then the LNER Avanti livery looks great on the superhitachiintercitytrains that everyone is getting. For local services the Northern scheme is inoffensive and adaptable. Or are we going into regions? In which case gWr for Western, Southern for Southern, Northern for midlands / north locals and LNER for West / Mids / East Coast intercity.

This is Boris England though. It will be Union Jacks everywhere despite Great British Railways having no operating reach outside England and cross-border services into Wales and Scotland. So we're all probably getting DOUBLE union jacks everywhere to wind up / repatriot the uppity Welsh / Scots who think they are better than England.