Great British Railways: Thoughts, predictions, speculation

[Trainer2]

I don't think conjecture about potential job cuts and where is helpful or appropriate right now. Besides it looks like being 2023 at the earliest before any 'cuts' are made.

The Guardian on Saturday and The Daily Telegraph today both discuss Network Rail losing up to 9,000 staff.

The rail unions have warned the company and told its members to prepare for a strike.

Appropriate or not, it’s fair to conclude cuts to job numbers and changes in T&Cs are part of Network Rails immediate plan, and an announcement seems imminent.

 

[JaJaWa]

Apparently the name and (some?) of the thinking came from this Labour document "GB Rail: Labour’s Plan for a Nationally Integrated Publicly Owned Railway"

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/GB_Rail_Labour_Opposition_White_Paper.pdf

 

[MarkyT]

The Guardian on Saturday and The Daily Telegraph today both discuss Network Rail losing up to 9,000 staff.

Is that right? 9k is nearly one quarter of NRs current workforce of around 42k. Is 9k the target total headcount reduction throughout the unified industry instead? That's still a large number but far more realistic at just under 10%.

 

[Trainer2]

Yes, the daily telegraph article is behind a paywall, I cannot read it all.
But I am told this is what is stated within the article.

 

[SouthEastBuses]

So will Great British Railways mean the end of TOCs e.g. GWR, Southern, EMR, Northern etc. ?

 

[Ianno87]

I'm pleased to see that Great British Railways has achieve the stage of having a Wikipedia page about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_British_Railways

 

[camflyer]

Scottish government isn't happy about the plans

Scottish Government fumes at Westminster over 'Great British Railways' plan

HOLYROOD and Westminster are on a collision course over UK Government plans to overhaul control of the railways.

www.thenational.scot

 

[HSTEd]

Yes, the daily telegraph article is behind a paywall, I cannot read it all.
But I am told this is what is stated within the article.

Theres not much in it.

Standard lines from someone who sounds a lot like the late Bob Crow.

 

[Mikey C]

Scottish government isn't happy about the plans

Scottish Government fumes at Westminster over 'Great British Railways' plan

HOLYROOD and Westminster are on a collision course over UK Government plans to overhaul control of the railways.

www.thenational.scot

Now there's a surprise

 

[Harvey B]

I wonder how this change will affect Northern and LNER, In My Opinion, I think that both Northern and LNER should remain State Owned after this change

 

[camflyer]

Theres not much in it.

Standard lines from someone who sounds a lot like the late Bob Crow.

From: https://uk.news.yahoo.com/unions-criticise-rail-reform-plans-213000054.html

“A concessions-based model will still see passengers and taxpayer money leak out of our industry in the form of dividend payments for the greedy shareholders of the private operators who will hold them.

Sounds like he doesn't approve of the model used by TfL!

Also, since when was anyone with a shareholding in a private company "greedy"?

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I wonder how this change will affect Northern and LNER, In My Opinion, I think that both Northern and LNER should remain State Owned after this change

On what basis is that opinion these 2 should be different to all the rest?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Scottish government isn't happy about the plans

Scottish Government fumes at Westminster over 'Great British Railways' plan

HOLYROOD and Westminster are on a collision course over UK Government plans to overhaul control of the railways.

www.thenational.scot

The Scottish Government aren't happy about anything England does. For them it shouldn't change anything, just the name of Network Rail.

I don't however see any issue with devolving Scottish and Welsh infrastructure entirely if they want that.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2021 ==

Also, since when was anyone with a shareholding in a private company "greedy"?

I wonder if he knows that's how his pension works?

 

[Harvey B]

On what basis is that opinion these 2 should be different to all the rest?

1) Because both Operators are under State Ownership at the moment
2) Because I think it makes sense for some of the Train Operators to be State ran and not contracted to private firms

 

[XAM2175]

The Scottish Government aren't happy about anything England does. For them it shouldn't change anything, just the name of Network Rail.

I think it's entirely fair to have concerns, on the grounds that the plans for GBR will affect NR's operations in Scotland, and thus by extension affect a devolved power - especially so if the plans have been developed without consultation.

Regardless of your opinions of the Scottish Government, it's very hard to view the UK Government unilaterally interfering with the devolution settlement as being actions undertaken in good faith.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

They will cease to exist!

But presumably there will be a need for the former ATOC functions somewhere inside GBR?
Aren't they part of the way timetable and ticketing data reaches the front line?
They also own the double arrow logo and the Rail Settlement Plan.
Somebody will also have to represent the new concession TOCs as a group.
I think the functions will stay, probably in reduced mode, and mostly within GBR.

 

[geoffk]

Should we be concerned about the future of Merseyrail as a self-contained urban operation, more like Tyne & Wear Metro in many ways than National Rail?

 

[HSTEd]

Regardless of your opinions of the Scottish Government, it's very hard to view the UK Government unilaterally interfering with the devolution settlement as being actions undertaken in good faith.

How is changing the branding on property of the UK Government "interfering with the devolution settlement"?

 

[Jimstar]

But presumably there will be a need for the former ATOC functions somewhere inside GBR?
Aren't they part of the way timetable and ticketing data reaches the front line?
They also own the double arrow logo and the Rail Settlement Plan.
Somebody will also have to represent the new concession TOCs as a group.
I think the functions will stay, probably in reduced mode, and mostly within GBR.

Agreed. Thinking of the cross industry groups they run, they’ll have to be somewhere so imagining it will just be a bit of a seed block for the new org.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

1) Because both Operators are under State Ownership at the moment
2) Because I think it makes sense for some of the Train Operators to be State ran and not contracted to private firms

But OLR has private firm involvement - it is basically run by a partnership of ARUP, Ernst & Young and SNC-Lavalin on behalf of DfT.

Yes the DfT controls the business but it still has private firms actively involved.

 

[ainsworth74]

Somebody will also have to represent the new concession TOCs as a group.

Why? To what purpose?

 

[zwk500]

Why? To what purpose?

Officially, so they can share good practice and contribute positively to the good and safe running of GBR.
Unofficially, to create a lobby group with sort-of collective bargaining to get better deals on their concessions.

I might be being overly cynical

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should we be concerned about the future of Merseyrail as a self-contained urban operation, more like Tyne & Wear Metro in many ways than National Rail?

I reckon no. Indeed, I reckon there will be more of them.

Merseyrail of course was born under BR and has always been its own thing since day one in 1978.

 

[XAM2175]

How is changing the branding on property of the UK Government "interfering with the devolution settlement"?

If that's the extent of the change as far as operations in Scotland are concerned then it isn't interference. My comment pertains to the fact that the plans publicised so far suggest the possibility of more significant change, and that because there appears to have been no consultation with the Scottish Government thus far the possibility of future interference exists.

 

[camflyer]

1) Because both Operators are under State Ownership at the moment
2) Because I think it makes sense for some of the Train Operators to be State ran and not contracted to private firms

I would put punctuality, safety, cleanliness, customer service, prices and route/rolling stock investment all as a higher priority than whether the actual services are private or public. Does anyone in London really care that TfL doesn't run buses themselves?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Why? To what purpose?

Like the Rail Industry Association, but on concession contracts generally.
Like Airlines of Britain for generic dealings with the government, CAA, and the airport owners.
Otherwise the all-powerful GBR just picks off each one.
It would be a trade body, not part of the daily operation as RDG is.

 

[HSTEd]

If that's the extent of the change as far as operations in Scotland are concerned then it isn't interference. My comment pertains to the fact that the plans publicised so far suggest the possibility of more significant change, and that because there appears to have been no consultation with the Scottish Government thus far the possibility of future interference exists.

This is from the white paper (page 25)

This white paper and the Williams Rail Review have focused on railways within Great Britain, as transport is a devolved area in Northern Ireland. The devolved authorities in Scotland and Wales have a range of devolved powers in relation to rail which they will continue to exercise, as will TfL and other metropolitan authorities, in relation to rail and light rail in their areas. As now, they and Great British Railways will need to work together to deliver a co-ordinated network across Great Britain.

 

[Tomos y Tanc]

Should we be concerned about the future of Merseyrail as a self-contained urban operation, more like Tyne & Wear Metro in many ways than National Rail?

I wouldn't have thought so. It's a strong local brand and a semi self-contained operation. I suspect we may see more rather than fewer local brands as various devolved and local governments try to intergrate their local train and bus services. The GBR brand may well end up only being used on intercity and regional routes.

 

[Whistler40145]

Is Network Rail being dissolved?

 

[ainsworth74]

If that's the extent of the change as far as operations in Scotland are concerned then it isn't interference. My comment pertains to the fact that the plans publicised so far suggest the possibility of more significant change, and that because there appears to have been no consultation with the Scottish Government thus far the possibility of future interference exists.

This is from the white paper (page 25)

From further in the review (pages 41 and 42):

12. Devolved railways will be strengthened, with closer collaboration with Great British Railways improving services, consistency and co-ordination across the country.

Existing devolved authorities in Scotland, Wales, London, Merseyside, and Tyne and Wear will continue to exercise their current powers and to be democratically accountable for them. They will continue to award contracts and set fares on their services, for instance. As now, devolved rail authorities will need to work together in partnership with Great British Railways. This includes supporting a single national network, including one website and app and delivering consistent branding and passenger standards, such as on accessibility and compensation.

Co-operation with a single national organisation will strengthen devolved railways by helping improve consistency in the passenger experience across the network, maintain common principles and standards and improve joint working on issues such as managing specialist or scarce technology and skills. Existing leases of stations to devolved transport authorities will continue and there will be opportunities to develop these relationships in the future.

Great British Railways will continue to own the infrastructure in Scotland and Wales (other than some of the South Wales Valley Lines), as Network Rail does now. The government will explore options with Transport Scotland to enable the railway in Scotland to benefit from the reforms on the wider network of Great Britain. A joint working agreement between Transport for Wales and Great British Railways will be explored to improve the rail offer for passengers and freight customers in the connected network between Wales, the West Midlands and the West of England. This agreement would need to be negotiated between the UK and Welsh governments, building on existing Wales and Borders agreements for rail services.

In London and the South East, a new strategic partnership will be established to support housing, economic growth and the environment across the highly interconnected transport network in that part of the country. This will bring together Great British Railways, TfL and local authorities and businesses to coordinate timetabling and investments and to provide a consistent passenger experience in areas such as accessibility, ticketing and communications.

It does sound like there's some plans in there for more influence but I'd argue in ways that are beneficial to passengers rather than being some sort of power grab aimed at the Scottish Government. Especially as it is explicitly stated that where things have been developed they will continue to award contracts and set their own fares.