Great British Railways: Livery, branding and appearance?

[philosopher]

Well, it can't be UK Railways as Northern Ireland isn't included.

You could call it England, Scottish and Welsh Railways or ESW rail for short. Not the most snappy name though.

 

[infobleep]

A more detailed view of the changes from the Railway Gazette.
Great British Railways to provide ‘united, accountable leadership’ for the rail sector | Rail Business UK | Railway Gazette International


The actual White Paper is not yet published, and will probably appear tomorrow when Grant Shapps makes his announcement in the Commons - this is just the press briefing.
Hopefully it will tell us some meat rather than apple pie, and name some of the names who will deliver it.
It's clear the private sector will have the main delivery role, I would assume taking on the OLR operations at some stage (competitively).
I don't yet get any feeling for size and shape of GBR other than absorbing Network Rail, or maybe the NR operational Regions will be hived off in some way.
Two-year contracts finalised this year will be a tough order, and the 30-year plan will appear next year.
There's no obvious change in the devolved TOCs which remain independent.
And no specific changes posted to the Railways Act (which mandates privatisation) - but maybe that will be in the actual White Paper.

"Driving significant efficiencies" and "changing working practices" will no doubt raise alarm bells in some quarters, but it's not before time.

If there are no changes to devolved TOCs, why not just called it English Railways!

 

[JonathanH]

If there are no changes to devolved TOCs, why not just called it English Railways?

The long-distance 'English TOCs' still operate cross-border services from London into both Wales and Scotland and, barring the introduction of hard borders, presumably would do so even if either of the devolved mainland nations became independent. There are three devolved TOCs who only operate in England.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

If there are no changes to devolved TOCs, why not just called it English Railways!

But there are as it takes over Network Rail which also exists in Scotland and Wales.

 

[infobleep]

But there are as it takes over Network Rail which also exists in Scotland and Wales.

Good point. Why not devolve National Rail too.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Good point. Why not devolve National Rail too.

I don’t think the current PM is keen on further devolvement bearing in mind his seeming views in the current Union!

 

[infobleep]

I don’t think the current PM is keen on further devolvement bearing in mind his seeming views in the current Union!

Why true. Hence no doubt why it's called Geeat British Railways.

I could think of some other names to call it but I'd be straying into Brezit territory so I had better not....

 

[CICERO55]

So i take it that all the train companies branding will go eg TPE, Avanti WC and just be “Great British Railways”?

 

[zwk500]

I don’t think the current PM is keen on further devolvement bearing in mind his seeming views in the current Union!

Scottish and Welsh Governments already have significant transport policy devolved to them, and this extends to a close working relationship with the NR routes for their areas. We'll have to wait for the detail on legislation, but I can't see any powers being re-centralised just yet. ScotRail and TfW Rail trains will transition fairly easily to the concession model, I'd have thought.

So i take it that all the train companies branding will go eg TPE, Avanti WC and just be “Great British Railways”?

Could go either way. Might be as TfL do and just have 'operated by x' in the corner, or could be as we are now with the individual TOC branding front and centre to differentiate services, but with a common thread (either pattern or big logo somewhere).

 

[Gareth]

Again, the name upsets all the right people, so I'm fine with it, even if it's a bit clunky. Although, in practice, I predict it'll be referred to more often as GBR rather than the name in full.

 

[zwk500]

Again, the name upsets all the right people, so I'm fine with it, even if it's a bit clunky. Although, in practice, I predict it'll be referred to more often as GBR rather than the name in full.

It'll be called British Rail by 99% of people. The remaining 1% will probably call it national rail or whatever.

 

[JaJaWa]

Interesting that this new organisation was originally planned to be called National Rail… National Rail Enquiries is being replaced by GBR, but it I wonder if TfL will also have to change the directional signs at their stations (from National Rail to Great British Railways).

 

[snowball]

Perhaps it will be called GBH.

 

[Gareth]

It'll be called British Rail by 99% of people. The remaining 1% will probably call it national rail or whatever.

I was thinking more in official terms, by the media and the company itself; the full name being the legal name rather than for marketing.

 

[TravelDream]

I was thinking more in official terms, by the media and the company itself; the full name being the legal name rather than for marketing.

The media will call it British Rail or BR. As will the majority of the general public - even those born post-privatisation.

They are even going to have the old BR logo.

 

[Gareth]

We'll see.

 

[Wolfie]

You could call it England, Scottish and Welsh Railways or ESW rail for short. Not the most snappy name though.

Already ructions brewing in Scotland over what looks like an attempt to steam-roller them over something currently devolved. Hardly likely to strengthen the Union....

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 May 2021 ==

I don’t think the current PM is keen on further devolvement bearing in mind his seeming views in the current Union!

His attitude will fuel demands for independence.

 

[TravelDream]

You could call it England, Scottish and Welsh Railways or ESW rail for short. Not the most snappy name though.

It'll be interesting to see how this will work in Wales and Scotland. Rail is partly devolved there of course (TOCs are, but Network Rail isn't) and new BR won't be operating as a public-facing brand there much apart from routes into England. TfW will continue to operate in England as well.
Nothing has been released yet on it.

 

[Gareth]

I doubt it'll change much at all in Wales. GBR will take over Network Rail's functions, the services will be administered/tendered by the Welsh government. Same with Scotrail, Merseyrail and London Overground.

 

[camflyer]

But there are as it takes over Network Rail which also exists in Scotland and Wales.

Maybe the name was chosen to annoy the the Scottish government so that any announcement about rail infrastructure in Scotland will have to mention "Great British Rail"

The full name is also a bit if a mouthful and GBR isn't a particularly unique abbreviation.

 

[tbwbear]

Do we know who (which committee / agency / individual) actually came up with the name "Great British Railways" ?

The idea is sound enough (or at least a step in the right direction) but the name is pretty terrible.

And like it or not, people will focus on the name, at least initially.

Perhaps the name will change in time and this is (as it seems) just an initial political tactic connected with Scotland.


If it really is going to be a TFL-style thing, then, logically, all Scotrail branding will be submerged to the level say of the companies operating London buses (a few letters and a logo in white paint on the side of a big red bus that few actually notice).

I really can't see that being acceptable north of the border. I wouldn't put money on Boris to win that argument either.


Plus - Does every tube station now have the signs to "National Rail + BR logo" changed to Great British Railways + BR Logo ? Some of them still say British Rail !


"National Rail" or even Network Rail would have been better.

Or perhaps it would have been better to give it a temporary name, let the thing get formed and then (away from government interference) let it choose its own brand name.

That is how British Railways became British Rail isn't it ?

They decided that British Rail was snappier and easy to say.

Now before anything else, they are making it harder to say.....

 

[FrodshamJnct]

Do we know who (which committee / agency / individual) actually came up with the name "Great British Railways" ?

The idea is sound enough (or at least a step in the right direction) but the name is pretty terrible.

And like it or not, people will focus on the name, at least initially.

Perhaps the name will change in time and this is (as it seems) just an initial political tactic connected with Scotland.


If it really is going to be a TFL-style thing, then, logically, all Scotrail branding will be submerged to the level say of the companies operating London buses (a few letters and a logo in white paint on the side of a big red bus that few actually notice).

I really can't see that being acceptable north of the border. I wouldn't put money on Boris to win that argument either.


Plus - Does every tube station now have the signs to "National Rail + BR logo" changed to Great British Railways + BR Logo ? Some of them still say British Rail !


"National Rail" or even Network Rail would have been better.

Or perhaps it would have been better to give it a temporary name, let the thing get formed and then (away from government interference) let it choose its own brand name.

That is how British Railways became British Rail isn't it ?

They decided that British Rail was snappier and easy to say.

Now before anything else, we are making it harder to say.....

Smacks of the Conservatives a name like that.

 

[jack31439]

The name to me just sounds like another thinly veiled attempt to drum up some patriotic hurrahs. I find it unlikely that it will lead to mass rebrands because at the moment it would still be the TOCs that have to foot the costs for that, and simply the money is not there.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

GBR reminds me of GBK (Gourmet Burger Kitchen), I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the “Great” is dropped relatively quickly.

I may have missed this, but will TOC’s current branding change?

 

[zwk500]

I may have missed this, but will TOC’s current branding change?

The current suggestion is it will be a TfL style common brand with 'operated by x' in a corner. But I suspect this particular detail could well change a number of times before a final decision is actually reached. We may see de-branded liveries but regional variations that look suspiciously similar to the corporate colours of the concession holder, for instance.

 

[reddragon]

Now what about the new logo? May be a speculative thread is needed or do we know?

 

[CentralTrainer]

Now what about the new logo? May be a speculative thread is needed or do we know?

Managed to get a look at a new proposed one:

 

[hwl]

GBR reminds me of GBK (Gourmet Burger Kitchen), I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if the “Great” is dropped relatively quickly.

I may have missed this, but will TOC’s current branding change?

I'm sure "Great" will quickly become "Late" in popular parlance and be dropped quickly

 

[Grumpy Git]

The name is dreadful and to me smacks of pandering to a certain section of the voting public?

Happy to be proved wrong.

 

[jack31439]

The name is dreadful and to me smacks of pandering to a certain section of the voting public?

Happy to be proved wrong.

You're right, it definitely is. Attempting to give off a sense of faux nationalistic pride, probably trying to cover up the fact the profits and dividends are still being lost to private shareholders abroad. Because that's such a major problem to some. I'm sure it wouldn't be an issue if these shareholders were 'Great British'.