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Rail operator plans new 140mph service to London

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Eric

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Hello everyone I'm new to this forum.

The front page of the Telegraph and Argus today caught my attention, with claims that new rail operator ARH have a new Bradford Interchange to London Euston via Manchester Victoria route planned using newly built 'duel fuel' trains that would reach 140mph once past Crewe towards Euston.

See below for what is welcomed news in Bradford after years of playing second fiddle to Leeds.

A rail operator has revealed plans to introduce new 140mph inter-city services between Bradford and London and major cities in the north.

Alliance Rail Holdings has published proposals for direct services every two hours between Bradford Interchange and London Euston via Manchester Victoria, Crewe and the West Coast Main Line (WCML).

The company also wants to restore Bradford’s long-lost direct rail links to two major northern cities by operating a Hull to Liverpool Lime Street service via Bradford every two hours.

In the final part of its three-pronged bid, Alliance wants to run direct services from Skipton and Ilkley to London Kings Cross via the East Coast Main Line (ECML), providing a boost for passengers in the Aire Valley and Wharfedale.

Alliance, owned by Berlin-based Deutsche Bahn, one of the world’s biggest transport companies, is holding talks with train manufacturers with a view to building a fleet of 140mph trains to operate the services.

The ‘duel fuel’ trains would be capable of operating from overhead electric wires on the main line and then switching to their own power provided by onboard diesel engines on non-electrified routes.

Ian Yeowart, managing director of Alliance, said the Office of Rail Regulation (ORR) was aware of his company’s plans and will be asked to approve them.

Mr Yeowart said: “Subject to the proposal being accepted by the ORR, it is planned to begin the roll out of new services on the WCML from December 2013, with ECML services and Pennine services following soon after.

“There’s a huge amount of investment backing up these service groups. These proposals are well thought-out.

“No other operator has ever introduced a fleet of new trains, which makes this an exciting proposal.

“In the first phase of work on the WCML, we want to offer a frequent service down the Calder Valley, which has been quite neglected. We’re looking at a high-quality commercial link between Bradford and Manchester Victoria, then on to London.

“For Bradford, it starts to create a high-quality intercity link between itself and Manchester which has been long lost.

“Phase two of the service proposition will be for services serving London King’s Cross from Skipton and Ilkley. Skipton and that area has been deprived over time by GNER and its successor.

“We are looking at a third phase with services that would link Hull and Liverpool right through the Calder Valley.

“That would mean an hourly fast train between Bradford and Manchester.

“Although we don’t anticipate many people catching the train all the way from Hull to Liverpool, we think there’ll be a real demand for the intermediate journeys, from Hull to Bradford, or from Bradford to Manchester or Liverpool.”

Mr Yeowart was heavily involved with Grand Central’s successful bid to introduce a Bradford Interchange to London King’s Cross service before he left the company.

Grand Central, which introduced its new Bradford to London service on the ECML earlier this summer, said: “Grand Central welcomes new entrants into the market as this shows that open access operators are able to meet passenger demand for new journey opportunities that franchised operators are unable to.”



I must say that with Deutsche Bank on board (the second-largest transport company in the world and largest railway operator and infrastructure owner in Europe) this looks like being more than just pure fantasy.

The new 'duel fuel' trains that they hope to use look amazing.
 
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jopsuk

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Aye- we've got two 140mph classes running on the main network, on the ECML and WCML, already that aren't allowed above 125mph as that's the limit of the signalling system. Unless Yeowart has a source of funds to resignal the route they propose to use, including fitting all the existing trains that run on the route with the required equipment, they're not going anywhere near that fast.
 

Greenback

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Hello Eric, and welcome to Rail UK!

If these plans do ever come to fruition it would be very welcome in Bradford. But it's a very big 'if'! As has been pointed out, the signalling system does not allow for 140mph running, plus the ORR cannot simply 'approve' the plans just like that and then the service begins. Stakeholders have to be consulted, paths identified, objections heard and so on.

I would never say it won't ever happen, but the article doesn't quite tell the whole story! As often happens these days, it's more like a press release than a properly researched story!
 

Deerfold

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Be great if it all happens but they're trying to squeeze an awful lot onto already crowded lines.
 

YorkshireBear

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i think some routes have merit and some don't if i'm honest... I reckon he'll get 30-40% of routes with rest scrapped or requiering reworking
 

YorkshireBear

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Although the route to Leeds seems to have changed, approaching from the West instead of via the Penistone line and Huddersfield.

it's not changed since site laucnhed in august but before then there were some mior changes and less routes
 

OMGitsDAVE

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I like the way their purple train is "225001" but yes, i think Yeowart is desperate to rid of GC on the Bradford line! It should be good to see Blackpool North & Carlisle, mind.
 

sprinterguy

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Although the route to Leeds seems to have changed, approaching from the West instead of via the Penistone line and Huddersfield.

The GNER Kings Cross to Huddersfield service still intends on making use of the Penistone line: 140mph Intercity trains on the single track, usually Pacer served, Penistone line: Hilarious. Oh well, it'll be the first time there's been long distance trains through Pensitone for a good few years!

Those new trains are going to be seriously overspecced: As others have said, they'll never reach 140mph, not even on the fast bits of the route on the ECML and WCML because the signalling isn't up to the task. Alliance Ril are making a very bold move intending to order brand new, 140mph Intercity trains for a new untested service.

There was another thread about this on here recently, and the conclusion I and a few others seemed to come to is that the routes are more focused on extracting revenue from existing, proven passenger flows rather than trying to tap into new markets. GNER and GNWR look like a very ambitious project that it would be good to see get off the ground, but I expect to see some pruning of their plans if/when they go into operation: I mean, do they really think they're going to be able to get paths through Stockport???
 

swt_passenger

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If Yeowart is such a switched on cookie, why was he dumped by GC?

"Ian Yeowart joined British Rail in 1973 as a clerk at Toton depot,
rising to become area retail manager and then company safety manager for Regional
Railways North East. In 1994/95 he was involved with bids for two early franchises,
Midland Mainline and Regional Railways North East.
He then turned to consultancy and founded Grand Central in 1998. He was managing
director until May 2008, and left the company when he was sacked in May 2009."

Source: RAIL 632, Dec 2nd 2009
 

Eric

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:lol::lol:

Well, the trains might well be capable of 140mph, but they'll never run at that speed...

What makes me laugh after reading through the various documentation is how the hell do they plan on getting from Bradford to London via Manchester Victoria and the Calder Valley line in two hours?
 

alexjames

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AFAIK, Yeowart was fired by GC because that company became aware that he was about to decamp to Alliance with a whole bunch of their IP ie planning work on Bradford to London amongst other "new" routes. An employment tribunal hearing is pending and, possibly subject to what emerges during that, he will get sued for pinching that IP. Unless he has been indemnified by Alliance, the Yeowart wallet is soon to become emptier than a politician's promise.
 

sprinterguy

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Looking at the artists impression on the website i'd say they look suspiciously like the proposed "Polaris" HST.

That's exactly what they are: CRSE built "Polaris" trains. When Yeowart was commanding GC then it was said that Grand Central would be getting hold of some of those trains. Yeowart seems wedded to buying Polaris'.
 

mallard

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That's exactly what they are: CRSE built "Polaris" trains. When Yeowart was commanding GC then it was said that Grand Central would be getting hold of some of those trains. Yeowart seems wedded to buying Polaris'.

Ah, so that's why the destination indicators on the freely-downloadable CAD drawings of the things say "Sunderland"...

Oh and if anybody needs futher convincing that they're Polarises, check the file names of the images.

Speaking of the images, I find it quite amusing that they've applied motion blur to the image to try to make it look like the thing's travelling at speed, but the wheels are completely in focus...
 

MidnightFlyer

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I think the Polaris stock looks really nice, hopefully they can be successful should they come about as an OAO: I would definately use them. Not sure about the 140mph working though, but the idea of creating more parkway stations is very good :D
 

anthony263

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I read somewhere that a polaris demonstrator could be coming to the uk in 2012?

I think it was in one of last months rail magazines which had the article with the boss of CSRE staying that they want to bring some trains to the UK market
 

dk1

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I like the way their purple train is "225001" but yes, i think Yeowart is desperate to rid of GC on the Bradford line! It should be good to see Blackpool North & Carlisle, mind.

Haven't Virgin confirmed that if they retain their West Coast franchise that they will be back into Blackpool with London services? The electrification has now thankfully been protected.
 

brompton rail

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Having casually observed GC HSTs at York and 180s at Doncaster it seemed to me that a 153 could have carried the passenger load on offer. For example, around 10am an EC 225 arrives in York for Edinburgh with most seats occupied and almost all reserved, followed a couple of minutes later by GC en route for Sunderland - 5 coach HST with at best a couple of dozen on board.

Therefore I ask, where are the passengers going to come from more services to Bradford, or Hull to Liverpool.

Personally I would rather see the limited timetable slots offered to operators who can run, and fill, 9 coach trains.
 

Lampshade

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Personally, I think only the Blackpool and Carlisle services have a hope in Hell of being accepted. The Bradford and Leeds ones smack of revenue abstraction although if the Leeds one started at Dewsbury it wouldn't be so bad.
 
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