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Norwich-Liverpool Lime Street

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Kneedown

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Remember the Voyager family of units cannot run at 'Sprinter' speeds. This is a major disadvantage East of Peterborough & can often be the difference between 75 & 45mph.

As i've said elsewhere, many times! it's hardly a disadvantage at all. The vast majority of Sprinter speeds are, in practice, not worth the paper (or speed boards) they are written on. A 158 is very slow to accelerate to 90mph and in the majority of cases no sooner do they get above the linespeed for "normal trains", than they have to slow down for the next restriction. The only exception to this is the few short miles from Queen Adelaide to Lakenheath where Sprinters can do 75 whereas other stock is restricted to 45. Hardly a big saving in time on a 5hr+ journey from Liverpool, and there are other areas where a Voyager/Meridian type unit will outperform a 158. Grantham to Peterboro, and superior electric type acceleration being just two of these.
As regards capacity, it's true that 2X158's have more seats than a Meridian, Voyager or whatever, but more seats doesn't mean more capacity. There is almost no luggage space, and a heckuva lot of passengers who use the route have plenty of suitcases and other luggage with them, with nowhere to put it.
The simple fact is that a Voyager/Meridian/Adelante type unit is the most ideal type for this route that currently exists. It's too much for 158's that, despite refresh, are showing their age now and would be more suited on shorter, less intensive routes.
If Bombardier or Alstom come up with a lightweight Meridian or Adelante then so much the better!

Everyone is entitled to their point of view and i'm certainly not trying to rubbish or betlittle anyone elses opinion, but i drive over this entire route, several times a week sometimes and have done so for the last 15years, and so if i don't know how the route should develop for the better then it's a pretty poor show.
 
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MCR247

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I'd say a 180/longer 175 would be more suited to this route than a 22x
 

Kneedown

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I'd say a 180/longer 175 would be more suited to this route than a 22x

A 22X and 180 are pretty much on a par i'd say.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Still has the door issue though. Turbostars get my vote.

Hardly an issue on a long distance route. There's two doors per coach, just as there is on a turbo.
Better capacity including luggage space, not just seats, is the key.
 

Kneedown

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But 170s are more suited for standing passengers

I must confess i'm not sure why a 170 is more suited for standing passengers than other units, but if so all the more reason for keeping them on shortish routes where people can reasonably be expected to stand for a while, rather than a long distance route.
 

dk1

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I must confess i'm not sure why a 170 is more suited for standing passengers than other units, but if so all the more reason for keeping them on shortish routes where people can reasonably be expected to stand for a while, rather than a long distance route.

You dont have to stand outside a toilet is a big plus point.
 

WillPS

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Simply, there are big, light, open areas by the (wide) doorways and lots of bars to grab ahold of. I can quite comfortably stand on a 170 for up to 40 mins, on a 153/6/9 it's a lot harder to get reasonably comfortable standing up.
 

TheBigD

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Another friday shambles on the 1552 ex crime street. Not helped by the 1452 being cancelled from Liverpool. 7 minutes at Piccadilly trying to load people.:roll::roll::roll:

Currently about 15 minutes behind schedule.
 

dk1

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NRES expects it to be 12 late Grantham, 4 late by Peterborough & rt time from Ely. Dont think theyve taken the 18.45 Nottingham-Skeggy into account :roll:.
 

ivanhoe

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Another friday shambles on the 1552 ex crime street. Not helped by the 1452 being cancelled from Liverpool. 7 minutes at Piccadilly trying to load people.:roll::roll::roll:

Currently about 15 minutes behind schedule.

You do love your sterotypes don't you? Prey tell me what crime free town or city you come from?
 

TheBigD

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You do love your sterotypes don't you? Prey tell me what crime free town or city you come from?

If you are offended by my trivial comment than I apologise.

It was not my intention to cause you such extreme distress.
 
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