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Railway Geography: Winners and Losers

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southern442

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Crewe and Ely are very strong performers in the 'most towns of this size don't get nearly as much railway traffic' category. But they've been said before, so I'll go down the same route as Barnham and Brockenhurst and nominate Manningtree. 4tph in normal times and not even 1000 people if I have heard right.
 
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Swanley 59

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Morpeth has an excellent service for a town with a population of 14000. As well as the two-hourly interval Northern service to Newcastle, it is also served by LNER, Cross Country and TransPennine Express. It will also be served by the East Coast Trains Edinburgh to London service - if it ever happens.

A few miles south on the ECML, Cramlington has more than double the population. It is served only by the two-hourly Northern service.

Historically, Morpeth was the junction for some very minor branch lines, namely the Wansbeck line to Reedsmouth and the Blyth and Tyne to Bedlington.
 

geordieblue

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Morpeth has an excellent service for a town with a population of 14000. As well as the two-hourly interval Northern service to Newcastle, it is also served by LNER, Cross Country and TransPennine Express. It will also be served by the East Coast Trains Edinburgh to London service - if it ever happens.

A few miles south on the ECML, Cramlington has more than double the population. It is served only by the two-hourly Northern service.

Historically, Morpeth was the junction for some very minor branch lines, namely the Wansbeck line to Reedsmouth and the Blyth and Tyne to Bedlington.
The Northern service is hourly I believe - it's the other services that are less frequent
 

daodao

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Agree with @LNW-GW Joint. Crewe as a strategically located railway junction town still has direct services to London and Scotland, Manchester and Liverpool, the North Wales coast, Shrewsbury and South Wales, Stoke-on-Trent and Derby, and Birmingham / Reading. Not bad for a relatively small place, population c. 70thd.
Crewe is a major town in its own right, with a catchment population for its station (if one includes nearby Nantwich) of nearly 100k. It does have a better than average (but not excessive) train service, but that is because it was the first "railway" town and is largely a creation of the LNWR. FYI, it no longer has through trains to Oxford/Reading/South coast, nor to Bristol and South-West England.

I nominate Derry City, Bury, Oldham, Methyr Tudful and Hartlepool as major places with poor rail services for their size.
 

dk1

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Crewe and Ely are very strong performers in the 'most towns of this size don't get nearly as much railway traffic' category. But they've been said before, so I'll go down the same route as Barnham and Brockenhurst and nominate Manningtree. 4tph in normal times and not even 1000 people if I have heard right.
Manningtree does very well as a catchment area for commuters (being the limit of NSE helped) as well as main line trains being fed by some healthily loaded branch trains depositing passengers for Ipswich & Colchester as well as London & which again in normal times can also carry plenty of cruise passengers.
 

306024

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Crewe and Ely are very strong performers in the 'most towns of this size don't get nearly as much railway traffic' category. But they've been said before, so I'll go down the same route as Barnham and Brockenhurst and nominate Manningtree. 4tph in normal times and not even 1000 people if I have heard right.
Manningtree likes to claim it is the smallest town in England, depending on how you like to measure these things, (although the station is actually in Lawford, which no one will have heard of). But then one look at the size of the car park, and you realise it is indeed about the catchment area. The car park has been extended twice in recent years.

The main line service is generally 3tph (currently 2 for Covid reductions), plus the hourly Harwich branch.

At the London end of the GEML Shenfield is very much a winner compared to Brentwood, simply due to being the junction for the Southend line.
 

dk1

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Manningtree likes to claim it is the smallest town in England, depending on how you like to measure these things, (although the station is actually in Lawford, which no one will have heard of). But then one look at the size of the car park, and you realise it is indeed about the catchment area. The car park has been extended twice in recent years.
Has anything been done to prettify that retaining new wall? I hear the peasants where revolting.
 

route101

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East Kilbride second biggest town in Scotland served by a half hourly DMU that takes half an hour to Glasgow. Paisley on the other hand frequent service to Ayrshire and Inverclyde. Bit of an unfair comparison as the EK line is a branch.
 

306024

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Has anything been done to prettify that retaining new wall? I hear the peasants where revolting.

The Great Wall of Manningtree, no nothing has changed since it was built.

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/202...e-dedham-vale-the-essex-wall-dividing-opinion

Yes there does seem to be some legal disagreement. The irony being the latest car park extension was very much needed pre Covid. Manningtree has seen big increases in passengers over recent years, so it probably doesn‘t deserve to be listed in this thread, but like many other places it will take ages before numbers recover.
 
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dk1

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The Great Wall of Manningtree, no nothing has changed since it was built.

https://www.itv.com/news/anglia/202...e-dedham-vale-the-essex-wall-dividing-opinion

Yes there does seem to be some legal disagreement. The irony being the latest car park extension was very much needed pre Covid. Manningtree has seen big increases in passengers over recent years, so it probably doesn‘t deserve to be listed in this thread, but like many other places it will take ages before numbers recover.
Thank you. I’ve seen it on the local TV news but not for a while. Perhaps a living wall would help but they do require looking after. Who pays?
 

southern442

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Bit of an unfair comparison as the EK line is a branch.
This is another classic example of 'railway geography' causing towns to lose out in some very tricky ways.

Take Stockton as an example, which is around about the same size as Crewe, but gets only an hourly service (although Thornaby has a better one). Whilst this is poorer than East Kilbride's service, Stockton is on a through line and is also near some railway junctions, so if the money was put in the right places, it has the potential to have quite a good service, as there are plenty of opportunities for more services to come into play. East Kilbride on the other hand will always just be at the end of a branch line which feeds into a busier two-track mainline into Glasgow. Yes you might be able to squeeze 4tph in on the branch but that's about all you could do without some major remodelling of the Glasgow South Western line or a very expensive extension of the branch. Other big towns line Morecambe, Merthyr Tydfil and maybe Weston-super-Mare to an extent share this problem.
 

Taunton

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Castle Cary. A village of 2000 with regular fast trains to London and the South west, whilst other nearby larger towns lost their railway altogether or have a worse service
Unfortunately the station is not near the town it's named after. It's as quick to drive up the A371 to onetime Evercreech Junction as it is to drive to the High Street in Cary.
 

387star

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Redhill aside from Sundays gets no direct trains to Portsmouth and Bognor. This is relatively recent and must be annoying given they whizz past on the quarrys
 

Bungle158

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Reading and Oxford are similar sizes but while Oxford does have a reasonable service in some directions, Reading is a major hub.

Nearby High Wycombe is about half the size but has only relatively limited destinations available on a through train.

Halifax and Huddersfield are similar sizes. Although Huddersfield has the better train service, the margin of difference is less than we would expect if we compare the sizes of the stations.

Carmarthen has a relatively limited service for a town of its size.

Ely has a better than average service for a town its size.
I think things are a little more complicated with the Reading Oxford comparison. Reading Borough has a population of around 165000, Oxford City 155000. However, Oxford hosts around 38000 students in term time. Reading on the other hand, stretches across 3 unitary authorities and its urban area population is closer to 250000 or higher. Reading is a major hub due to Geography, but it also has, or had pre covid, a higher inbound than outbound commuter flow.
 

Purple Orange

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I thought this'd be an interesting question - which towns/cities receive a better or worse service than they deserve based on population, due to their location on the railway?
I'll start with a couple of northeastern examples. Sunderland gets a pretty awful service, with 1tph to Newcastle and Middlesbrough plus a few daily departures to London (alongside the Metro, but even that isn't exactly a great service for the city's size). On the other hand, Durham sees most trains stop there, with around 5tph each way. There's plenty of demand from students and it does act as a railhead for the area, but based purely on population it's better served than it arguably deserves due to its position on the ECML.
What other examples are there? Try not to look at travel patterns too much - e.g. most Mackems working in Sunderland, so there doesn't need to be a good service. The question is which towns lose out or gain based on their respective locations on the network.
I’ll point out that the metro is a fantastic service. Far better than heavy rail by a long shot with better frequency and coverage across the city. Today there is at least a London service (which is not great as it is more efficient to start at Newcastle), whereas prior to the introduction of the metro there was just 2-3 tph to Newcastle & Middlesbrough.
 

tbtc

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There are some interesting examples here.

However I'd focus more on regular links to places within an hour's journey (rather than the fact that some smaller places happen to get a daily stop on the Aberdeen - Penzance service, since that one-a-day journey to somewhere far far away is going to be of limited use).

Sometimes it's easy to fall into the trap of comparing apples with oranges to justify population sizes (some places like Bradford and Sheffield have "populations" that include far off villages, some cities like Nottingham and Manchester have tightly drawn boundaries). There are also places that may have a reasonable population but their coastal location means that they don't have much of a hinterland.

I'd suggest Rotherham (which admittedly has an inflated population due to the boundaries going all the way from Brampton to Thorpe Salvin - from the edge of Hoyland to the edge of Shireoaks) - given that there are regular Cross Country and TransPennine services running through the old Masborough station site as well as a handful of EMR London services - but Rotherham's services are...

  • 3x Sheffield (split roughly with 10/20/30 gaps rather than a more balanced twenty minute service - I've waited half an hour at Rotherham Central in the past - in the pre-TramTrain era - it's very frustrating!)
  • 2x Doncaster (one of which extends to Adwick)
  • 1x Leeds (nine intermediate stops, so it takes exactly one hour to do a distance of twenty six miles as the crow flies, thirty two miles as the railway was built)
  • Plus a handful of Sheffield - Pontefract - York services a day (and the TramTrain services to Sheffield if you want to include light rail?)

...so nothing south of Sheffield, no services to longer distance destinations like Manchester/ Birmingham/ London (though such trains pass the old Masborough site, a few hundred metres from Rotherham Central, which must make things frustrating for locals!). Generally everything was operated by Sprinters so no First Class or buffets or anything fancy.

In terms of longer distance links, a left field suggestion would be Leicester - I say "left field" because it looks like it has a good service at first glance - it's a junction, it's in the middle of the country, it isn't surrounded by a national park (e.g. Sheffield is a reasonable size but the empty swathe of Peak District on our doorsteps act a bit like the North Sea at Sunderland - a large unpopulated area close to the city)... Leicester is on a busy main line, but doesn't have anything west of Birmingham or north of Sheffield - only two Turbostars per hour to Birmingham seems pretty poor when you consider that they are two large cities thirty five miles apart, so closer than Edinburgh to Glasgow)

Bradford. An express railway backwater with both its stations on dead ends. I have always thought it gets the worst service for a city of its size in England

Bradford is a funny one.

It's generally got six trains per hour to Leeds, two trains per hour to Manchester, hourly services to York /Hull/ Huddersfield/ Chester and Blackpool via Burnley/ Preston, as well as a few London services (the LNER one was going up to bi-hourly, the GC one was a few a day). Plus frequent local links to Skipton/ Keighley/ Ilkley etc.

So even if there was a central station, I don't know what significant improvements it'd get. If anything the Huddersfield service is the one I'd throw an extra train per hour at (locals may argue though).

I can appreciate that people in Bradford look at Leeds getting a significantly better service (in the way that people in Sunderland are envious of Newcastle, I'm sure people in Rotherham think similarly about Sheffield, the grass is always greener), but I think Bradford has a good collection of services and I don't think that linking Forster Square to the Interchange would make much of a difference to Bradford itself.
 

geordieblue

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I’ll point out that the metro is a fantastic service. Far better than heavy rail by a long shot with better frequency and coverage across the city. Today there is at least a London service (which is not great as it is more efficient to start at Newcastle), whereas prior to the introduction of the metro there was just 2-3 tph to Newcastle & Middlesbrough.
Oh, I completely agree - it's much better than what came before - but there's Newcastle suburbs that get a better service on the Metro than central Sunderland.
 

stuu

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Unfortunately the station is not near the town it's named after. It's as quick to drive up the A371 to onetime Evercreech Junction as it is to drive to the High Street in Cary.
It's at most 3/4 of a mile to the centre of the town, fairly good by GWR standards. Housebuilding is creeping down the hill towards the station too
 

Purple Orange

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Oh, I completely agree - it's much better than what came before - but there's Newcastle suburbs that get a better service on the Metro than central Sunderland.

That is only where both the yellow & green lines join, which see 10 tph. Then again Newcastle is the centre of the network and Sunderland is really a commuter dormitory of Newcastle these days. Just like Oldham, Altrincham, Bury, etc are a part of the orbit of Manchester.
 

uvarvu

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Losers - Totnes and any station west of it. Slow services to anywhere else thanks to the geography of Devon and Cornwall.
 

geordieblue

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That is only where both the yellow & green lines join, which see 10 tph. Then again Newcastle is the centre of the network and Sunderland is really a commuter dormitory of Newcastle these days. Just like Oldham, Altrincham, Bury, etc are a part of the orbit of Manchester.
It's 12tph in the core. And I'd also be very careful about describing Sunderland as a suburb of Newcastle - police horses have been punched for less! (More to the point Oldham etc. aren't cities in their own right, whilst Sunderland is). The Metro is good for Sunderland but even so it's not a particularly good service for a city with around 25k fewer inhabitants than Newcastle.
 

philosopher

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I was at uni at Nottingham and I always thought Nottingham lost out to the smaller city of Derby in terms of train services. Derby has direct trains to quite far flung places such as Scotland, Cornwall and the south coast of England, while Nottingham generally only has direct trains to London, other cities in the midlands and the closer Northern England cities such as Manchester and Sheffield. Added to that the service to London is quicker from Derby than from Nottingham.
 

Purple Orange

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It's 12tph in the core. And I'd also be very careful about describing Sunderland as a suburb of Newcastle - police horses have been punched for less! (More to the point Oldham etc. aren't cities in their own right, whilst Sunderland is). The Metro is good for Sunderland but even so it's not a particularly good service for a city with around 25k fewer inhabitants than Newcastle.

The combined frequency is every 6 minutes in the core. I’m from that neck of the woods originally, Sunderland is a city in name only and acts like a suburb of Newcastle. To be pedantic about it, the borough has city status, which includes the towns of Washington, Houghton & Sunderland. The population of Sunderland is 174k, and you wouldn’t get people from Washington & Houghton saying they are from Sunderland, despite being in the same borough. It’s the wrong thread for this anyhow.
 

geordieblue

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The combined frequency is every 6 minutes in the core. I’m from that neck of the woods originally, Sunderland is a city in name only and acts like a suburb of Newcastle. To be pedantic about it, the borough has city status, which includes the towns of Washington, Houghton & Sunderland. The population of Sunderland is 174k, and you wouldn’t get people from Washington & Houghton saying they are from Sunderland, despite being in the same borough. It’s the wrong thread for this anyhow.
I'm a Geordie myself but was being a bit pedantic about city sizes - the difference between urban areas, counties, combined authorities etc. isn't exactly clear anyway. Think your last line is pretty spot on in fairness - Sunderland gets a pretty poor National Rail service but a reasonable light rail one.
 
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Croydon, good, helped by the physical geography of the lowest non-riverine crossing of the North Downs vs Sutton, which even when it did have trains to the coast, had them taking a long time because of some v tight curves at Streatham North and Mitcham Junction.
 

johntea

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There are plenty of destinations you could use to escape from either of the Wakefield stations! :D
 

xotGD

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York is a winner for sure. If the ECML went through Leeds, it would see a much lower level of service.

Middlesbrough is a loser. Other small towns in Yorkshire see a much better service.
 

GordonT

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Inverkeithing (population 4,890) is a winner. Almost a 10ms. service to/from Edinburgh for much of the day in normal times. Hourly service to/from Perth. At least hourly to/from Dundee. Occasional through services to Aberdeen/Stations to/from London King's Cross. Once a day Stations to/from Penzance. Once a day Caledonian Sleeper to/from London Euston.
 
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