180

[MidnightFlyer]

ainsworth74/tbtc: I have never bee on one in the peak on a 180, but from past experiences, a 150/142 (sometimes doubled up, aren't we lucky up here?) have managed to just about cope at peaks, albeit that on a 180 everyone has a lot more room: I'll ask someone what they are like when I next see them

Do 180s have SDO?

 

[YorkshireBear]

so is that the general view fo the GC bradford service? i havent seen or been on it yet?

 

[Voyager 2093]

Just Give them to Chiltern Railways LOL .

 

[MidnightFlyer]

so is that the general view fo the GC bradford service? i havent seen or been on it yet?

The 180s on the GC WR (West Riding) services are DEAD. I was on it in August, the 1504 (or is it 1604?) from Doncaster-Halifax. About 12 got off at Doncasteron arrival, and I got on, alongside about 4 other people. I took a walk down the train, and there must only have benn 20-30 onboard. I was the only one in the leading coach, and I took note of loadings from the WR stations: Brighouse and Pontefract Monkhill: one person got on at both, I think two got offf at Brighouse, none at Monkhill. There were a couple on at Kirkgate, with about 4 getting off. There were suprisingly many getting on/off at Hhalifax, though I suspect Westy Yorkshire citizens just see it as a train from Doncaster-Pontefract-Wakefield-the general Huddersfield area-Halifax-Bradford; I suppose everyone from Pontefract etc just go to Wakefield, Doncatser or Leeds for normal EC services.
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Just Give them to Chiltern Railways LOL .

You're getting loco-hauled instead! I actually think they would be OK on Chilterns to Birmingham, the Clubmans get very busy on weekends to/from the capital!

 

[driver9000]

Do 180s have SDO?

Yes, although since Northerns 180s were modified for the Guards to operate the doors from the luggage van the SDO is disabled on their sets.

 

[RAPC]

At least Northern are using two daily, and the capacity *is* needed on peak runs (a shame they don't use them on weekend Blackpool trips too)

It is indeed needed. I catch these services for my regular commute and both of the morning runs in to Manchester are usually standing room only by Lostock at the latest. On busier mornings they can be standing room only at Blackrod. Not quite as bad on the way home in the evening, but the return peak services are standing room only ex-Manchester, but do thin out at Bolton and there will be seats available at either Bolton or Lostock at worst.

When a 180 fails, it has quite a nasty knock on effect. We had a pair of 142s sub in a few weeks back in the morning and it was standing room only from Adlington. The extra capacity is very much needed. It's fine for those like me getting on at Leyland, but I wouldn't fancy the scrap for a seat come December a bit further down the line. If a TPE service is delayed or cancelled, which then puts extra passengers from Preston / Chorley / Horwich on to the Northern services, then it can get seriously overcrowded.

When the 180s go, there are going to be some disappointed passengers not getting seats who currently do, or who are not getting on the train full stop due to a lack of capacity. I've done the commute on this line for a little over 3 years now and the services have definitely become busier over the past 18 months, so the 180s were very timely. TPE don't really serve a number of the intermediate stations on the line, so Northern are going to have some problems I'm sure in the new year.

 

[YorkshireBear]

well i cant see why northern cant keep them? do FGW need them with all 150's there about to get?

 

[Big Chris]

That give them to chiltern wasn't an all that stupid idea. They are wanting several sets of loco hauled coaches, 5 180's would be as non uniform as five loco hauled sets would be and would require less refurbishment etc.

 

[IanXC]

Chiltern's loco hauled will be uniform with Wrexham and Shropshires though, I think of the 5 180s 3 should go to Grand Central so they have a uniform fleet, which would release their 3 HSTs potentially for CrossCountry. Quite what to do with the 2 then remaining I have no idea...

 

[YorkshireBear]

Chiltern's loco hauled will be uniform with Wrexham and Shropshires though, I think of the 5 180s 3 should go to Grand Central so they have a uniform fleet, which would release their 3 HSTs potentially for CrossCountry. Quite what to do with the 2 then remaining I have no idea...

Well isnt one of the remaining two on loan to HT at moment anyway? or is this just my imagination?

other one can be a standby set or just add another service to GC or HT

only problem with removingGC HST's is they spent alot fo money on them and coachs will need redoing as they are not XC style

 

[387star]

Yeah ideally the HSTs would go to XC I agree
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Unless ScotRail use them for Glasgow-Edinburgh services which could cascade 170s or 158s southwards they might need the whole fleet though
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actually remind me why XC can't take the 180s again? Surely this would suit... I understand training issues but I am sure Bomardier Crofton could maintain them like the voyagers...?

Five 180s would be fantastic. XC already have a mixed fleet with the 170s...

 

[YorkshireBear]

they cant use Birmingham new street, sure it says it earlier on thread

 

[tbtc]

Unless ScotRail use them for Glasgow-Edinburgh services which could cascade 170s or 158s southwards they might need the whole fleet though

The line is getting electrified, although I expect most of the 170s from it to be deployed elsewhere in Scotland (and maybe a handful of 158s to go south, though not many)
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they cant use Birmingham new street, sure it says it earlier on thread

yeah, the clearance in the tunnels isn't good enough

 

[YorkshireBear]

yeah, the clearance in the tunnels isn't good enough

glad im not going mad thank you

didnt realise they were that bad though, they dont look big . if i was building an express DMU i would make sure it could use every major line in country ( all main lines and secondary lines inc XC) because in this country you know it will end up somewhere else

 

[387star]

surely some XC services don't call at Birmingham or could by pass

 

[MCR247]

No, every XC diagram will involve Birmingham

 

[YorkshireBear]

yeah every XC service calls at birmingham so thats a no go shame, looks like they'll end up from where they came

 

[387star]

Looking at wiki it cites Modern Railways November 2010 when suggesting the five spare class 180s (three currently with Northern) will be heading back to FGW as widely rumoured
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321418-420 will head to FCC so they recieve a generous 13 321s.

Any news on what is happening to SouthEasterns ex 508s or are these in too poor a state these days? Likewise are the three 508/3s to head to Merseyside?? I have no idea om the current status of these three.

Sorry if this has been talked about

 

[ainsworth74]

321418-420 will head to FCC so they recieve a generous 13 321s.

Any news on what is happening to SouthEasterns ex 508s

Why are you asking about 321s and 508s in a thread about 180s

 

[MCR247]

Looking at wiki it cites Modern Railways November 2010 when suggesting the five spare class 180s (three currently with Northern) will be heading back to FGW as widely rumoured

Does not mean it will happen

 

[YorkshireBear]

if they do go to FGW would it be worth putting them on some of the extremely long services that sprinters currently operate, cardiff paington?

 

[MCR247]

Are you serious? Of all of the Wessex FGW routes, you'd at least put them on Cardiff - Portsmouth, but I wouldn't even do that. They should take 166s and 165s of the Hereford route

 

[YorkshireBear]

Are you serious? Of all of the Wessex FGW routes, you'd at least put them on Cardiff - Portsmouth, but I wouldn't even do that. They should take 166s and 165s of the Hereford route

To be honest with you it was an example, i have little knowledge of services in that area and couldnt remember all of them.... and just didnt think they should be on IC services when they have HST's and that was best i could think of at the time

 

[MCR247]

But the Hereford route is where they are most likely to be put I think IF they do return

 

[YorkshireBear]

Would the 165/6 be able to run the cardiff portsmouth?

 

[swt_passenger]

Would the 165/6 be able to run the cardiff portsmouth?

Not without infrastructure changes, which are mentioned as future possibilities in both the Wessex and GW route business plans 'to allow class 165/6 to be used on Portsmouth/Cardiff services'.

So all the posters who say it 'can't happen' actually mean it 'can't happen yet'...

 

[tbtc]

Are you serious? Of all of the Wessex FGW routes, you'd at least put them on Cardiff - Portsmouth, but I wouldn't even do that. They should take 166s and 165s of the Hereford route

Out of interest, are you saying this because the Hereford route is busier or because it is more used by long distance passengers going to London?
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Would the 165/6 be able to run the cardiff portsmouth?

Trouble is, they're not that long. Some three coach, but a lot are only two IIRC. We really need something bigger to replace the three car 158s

 

[sprinterguy]

165s and 166s would only get moved onto other services if electrification of at least the Thames Valley lines were electrified and caused a big displacement of Turbos: Releasing five or six 166s from introducing five Adelantes on the Thames Valley services won't cause a major shake up.

So, on a bit of a tangent, if there ever is Thames Valley electrification, then it seems perfectly reasonable that, with the relevant infrastructure improvements, the 165s and 166s could head over to Cardiff to Portsmouth/Paignton and Great Malvern/Cheltenham to places south services: There's 58 165s and 166s operated by FGW, and 41 of them are three carriage trains: With that sort of size of fleet to play with you could very easily operate pairs of two carriage units or a two carriage and three carriage combination with the current frequency and timetable, and handily rid the West Country and Bristol area of Pacers through cascade of 150s (Of course, the 142s are going sooner than that anyway).

The Thames Valley, and through to Worcester via the Cotswolds, is a very suitable route for the 180s: It's a shame that they were so troublesome in the first place.

 

[MCR247]

Out of interest, are you saying this because the Hereford route is busier or because it is more used by long distance passengers going to London?

I'm saying that, because a) I'd say the route is too long for 166s, b) 166s are too short and c) I don't think HSTs are always needed.

 

[swt_passenger]

well i cant see why northern cant keep them? do FGW need them with all 150's there about to get?

None of FGW's nine incoming 150s provide additional capacity. They are replacing other stock begged, stolen or borrowed from other TOCs, such as ATW 150s, Northern 142s, an SWT 158, and various LHCS; some of which was organised to meet their West area capacity problems of two or three years ago, and some to address DfT inspired transfers of services, eg replacing SWT west of Exeter.

So if there is still an ongoing need to increasing capacity on FGWs Cotswolds and Thames Valley services; the 180s are a still a possible way.