Modern Railways: LNER and compulsory reservations

[AndyMike]

21st June isn't meant to be the end of distancing. It's meant to be the earliest date for the end of limits on social contact numbers. One that quite a few scientists don't see being realistic unless we have 85% vaccinations by then. Right now the 1 dose figure is 63% and 2 doses 21% so will still have a way to go. So these rules I suspect will be in place well past that date

My reading of the situation is that 21 June, as things stand, is set to see the end of all restrictions - including social distancing - unless the criteria for so doing are not met. This is what the government has stated. Now, whether in practice this will be accompanied by a warning that upholding some restrictions voluntarily is advisable I don’t know. But that date is supposed to see all restrictions being removed.

 

[Domh245]

My reading of the situation is that 21 June, as things stand, is set to see the end of all restrictions - including social distancing - unless the criteria for so doing are not met. This is what the government has stated. Now, whether in practice this will be accompanied by a warning that upholding some restrictions voluntarily is advisable I don’t know. But that date is supposed to see all restrictions being removed.

I'm afraid you're wrong, and Glenn is correct. 21st of June should see the removal of "legal limits on social contact*", and easing of restrictions on businesses, but not removal. There's as yet no guidance on what level of restrictions will remain, as the currently ongoing trial events will be informing that

COVID-19 Response - Spring 2021 (Summary)

www.gov.uk

Step 4 - not before 21 June​

Social contact​

By Step 4 which will take place no earlier than 21 June, the government hopes to be in a position to remove all legal limits on social contact.

Business, activities and events​

We hope to reopen remaining premises, including nightclubs, and ease the restrictions on large events and performances that apply in Step 3. This will be subject to the results of a scientific Events Research Programme to test the outcome of certain pilot events through the spring and summer, where we will trial the use of testing and other techniques to cut the risk of infection. The same Events Research Programme will guide decisions on whether all limits can be removed on weddings and other life events.

*Rule of 6, bubbles, etc

 

[Hadders]

Hi, I've read a lot of the posts on here, first 6 pages and last couple. So forgive me if it's covered elsewhere, are lets say, on 1st June for example, LNER the only operator that will have the 'compulsory' seat reservation system in place, (steering clear of the arguments in earlier posts) and to turn up and travel, say with an ALR, a smartphone app would reserve a seat quickly do it quite quickly.

Correct. As long as there is an available seat for the whole of your intended journey. That is the problem, because at the moment you can board and either choose to stand until, or sit in an empty seat if there is a no-show, or stand and then take a seat if one is vacated and the seat is not reserved at an intermediate stop.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Correct. As long as there is an available seat for the whole of your intended journey. That is the problem, because at the moment you can board and either choose to stand until, or sit in an empty seat if there is a no-show, or stand and then take a seat if one is vacated and the seat is not reserved at an intermediate stop.

On the Flip side Dynamic Seating will relase many more seats than are currently available

 

[JonathanH]

On the Flip side Dynamic Seating will relase many more seats than are currently available

What is 'dynamic seating'?

Is this where seating allocation, for those who haven't paid extra to reserve a specific seat, is only made a day or two before departure and people get advised of their seat via an update to their original booking?

 

[Hadders]

What is 'dynamic seating'?

Is this where seating allocation, for those who haven't paid extra to reserve a specific seat, is only made a day or two before departure and people get advised of their seat via an update to their original booking?

Probably means there'll assume you've alighted early and re-sell your seat if you pop to the buffet or nip to the toilet!

All this compulsory reservation nonsense really is over complicating rail travel, in my opinion.

 

[NSEFAN]

What is 'dynamic seating'?

Periodically defragmenting the train to optimise passenger placement?

 

[Wallsendmag]

No at the moment one or two seats per table/ airline set are available, so if you book for a party of four you could be sitting at four tables taking up 16 seats. From the second week of May if you book 4 seats you'll be sat around the same table with a bubble around you so more reservable seats per train.

 

[43096]

What is 'dynamic seating'?

Is this where seating allocation, for those who haven't paid extra to reserve a specific seat, is only made a day or two before departure and people get advised of their seat via an update to their original booking?

It’ll be TOC twaddle for a change that makes things more difficult and costly for passengers, dressed up as a supposed improvement. You can guarantee it will be in the operator’s interests, not the customer’s.

 

[Wallsendmag]

What is 'dynamic seating'?

Is this where seating allocation, for those who haven't paid extra to reserve a specific seat, is only made a day or two before departure and people get advised of their seat via an update to their original booking?

It’ll be TOC twaddle for a change that makes things more difficult and costly for passengers, dressed up as a supposed improvement. You can guarantee it will be in the operator’s interests, not the customer’s.

Nothing remotely like that

 

[43096]

Nothing remotely like that

With all due respect, you would say that.

 

[alistairlees]

It’ll be TOC twaddle for a change that makes things more difficult and costly for passengers, dressed up as a supposed improvement. You can guarantee it will be in the operator’s interests, not the customer’s.

You are not correct. Wallsendmag has already described the change, which will benefit customers in two ways:
- groups can be seated together, whilst maintaining social distancing
- because groups can be seated together, this will slightly increase capacity

My experience of groups on LNER has been so far that they tend to ignore their allocated (currently separated) seating, and sit together anyway. So this will improve things for both them and other customers.

 

[Domh245]

This "dynamic reservation" sounds an awful lot like reverting to the "old normal" but with a catchy buzzword...

 

[Bikeman78]

You are not correct. Wallsendmag has already described the change, which will benefit customers in two ways:
- groups can be seated together, whilst maintaining social distancing

In the real world, groups just pile in together. Coming up from Bridgend last year, seven young ladies piled on at one of the intermediate stations. Six of them sqeezed in a four bay together, the seventh asked sheepishly if she could sit opposite me to which I replied "go ahead." I'll repeat what I've said before. Social distancing on trains is not remotely practical, no matter how much the TOCs pretend that it is.

 

[davews]

Reservation when you arrive at the station is fine for some. But what about those of us who don't have a smartphone?
I did consider using LNER last Christmas to visit my brother but of course when Boris cancelled Christmas it put paid to that anyway. The year before when I did go that route on the way back I just hopped on the first train to KX and found a seat, I was at Peterborough for no more than a couple of minutes, far too short to think of booking anything.... That is how it used to work...

 

[Mike99]

Correct. As long as there is an available seat for the whole of your intended journey. That is the problem, because at the moment you can board and either choose to stand until, or sit in an empty seat if there is a no-show, or stand and then take a seat if one is vacated and the seat is not reserved at an intermediate stop.

Thank you for replying, appreciated

 

[david1212]

Reservation when you arrive at the station is fine for some. But what about those of us who don't have a smartphone?

Or do but struggle to use one particularly on the move e.g. need to change glasses - before anyone asks yes I have varifocal but due to my eyes have to change to read a website on a smartphone. Hence phone is only PAYG so first need free and working wi-fi.

... The year before when I did go that route on the way back I just hopped on the first train to KX and found a seat, I was at Peterborough for no more than a couple of minutes, far too short to think of booking anything.... That is how it used to work...

... and of course how rail travel should be. For full fare ( i.e. Anytime, Saver not discounted advance etc ) tickets the option to pay to book a seat of your choice & free to book a seat of the operators choice up to the day before if the quota of <=50% of capacity isn't taken else take the risk of standing.

Operators should be required to publish the typical loading of every train and for longer distances split into legs of no more than an hour. Passengers then know when to expect to get a seat.

 

[Grumbler]

Reservation when you arrive at the station is fine for some. But what about those of us who don't have a smartphone?
I did consider using LNER last Christmas to visit my brother but of course when Boris cancelled Christmas it put paid to that anyway. The year before when I did go that route on the way back I just hopped on the first train to KX and found a seat, I was at Peterborough for no more than a couple of minutes, far too short to think of booking anything.... That is how it used to work...

And suppose you have booked a seat from Peterborough to Kings Cross. The train comes in and you board it. But your seat is taken because this isn't the 17:30 departure, but the 16:30 running late. How are you supposed to know?

 

[zwk500]

And suppose you have booked a seat from Peterborough to Kings Cross. The train comes in and you board it. But your seat is taken because this isn't the 17:30 departure, but the 16:30 running late. How are you supposed to know?

Because the platform screens and announcements will repeatedly tell you its the late running 16.30? It's the same situation as pre covid with advances limited to specific trains

 

[Bletchleyite]

And suppose you have booked a seat from Peterborough to Kings Cross. The train comes in and you board it. But your seat is taken because this isn't the 17:30 departure, but the 16:30 running late. How are you supposed to know?

If you've got a disability that means you can't read the screens or hear the announcements, I'm sure staff will be accommodating.

If you haven't, then, er, pay attention, it's no different to making sure the train you are boarding stops at your destination station.

 

[Grumbler]

If you've got a disability that means you can't read the screens or hear the announcements, I'm sure staff will be accommodating.

If you haven't, then, er, pay attention, it's no different to making sure the train you are boarding stops at your destination station.

So you let the first train go, then find the train you were booked on is cancelled. Then the next one is fully booked...
It's quicker by rail...NOT!

 

[davews]

On this particular journey, on the outward part where I did have a reservation, the KX departure boards did not show Peterborough as a destination. I had to double check at the customer service desk and even the steward on the train that it did so. My seat though did have my Peterborough destination on it...

 

[Bletchleyite]

On this particular journey, on the outward part where I did have a reservation, the KX departure boards did not show Peterborough as a destination. I had to double check at the customer service desk and even the steward on the train that it did so. My seat though did have my Peterborough destination on it...

That sounds like a reservation made on a pick up only service in error. That is, you shouldn't have made that journey on that train.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Never thought I'd say (or even think) this but...

Come back, Virgin. All is forgiven, even the talking toilets!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 26 Apr 2021 ==

That sounds like a reservation made on a pick up only service in error. That is, you shouldn't have made that journey on that train.

Then the system shouldn't have allowed the reservation to be made. If it did, it is in the wrong, not @davews . Your response sounds like you're saying it's his fault.

 

[davews]

That sounds like a reservation made on a pick up only service in error. That is, you shouldn't have made that journey on that train.

There was no indication when I booked it that it was pick up only and customer service didn't mention it when I asked. Seemed to be plenty of others got off at Peterborough, including the chap sat next to me, which was the train's first stop.

(by the way it was 1S13 which on today's timetable does show the first stop as York. Maybe different in December 2019. Train steward replied 'yes, of course it stops at Peterbro'.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

There was no indication when I booked it that it was pick up only and customer service didn't mention it when I asked. Seemed to be plenty of others got off at Peterborough, including the chap sat next to me, which was the train's first stop.

Perhaps just a PIS error, then.

Of course, if you had a reservation on GR2421* you wouldn't need to know the calling points! ("Flight numbers" fit well with the CR concept and can allow PIS to be more concise - no need to list the calling points because your reservation already proves it calls there).

* Interesting that the TOC codes are now hard to change because some idiot hard-coded them somewhere

 

[Western Sunset]

Sounds like to buy a ticket nowadays, one has to have a PhD in "Ticketing Systems of British Train Operating Companies".

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds like to buy a ticket nowadays, one has to have a PhD in "Ticketing Systems of British Train Operating Companies".

Very true. There's literally nothing simpler, though, than a ticket that has printed on it which train you need to use and which seat you need to sit in. There is absolutely nothing to argue about with that.

It's flexibility that makes things more complex, because you have to define bounds for it. Or you make things very flexible, but then how do you price a London to Manchester ticket that is valid via Wick?

 

[ABB125]

how do you price a London to Manchester ticket that is valid via Wick?

About £13.45 with a railcard, so I get a cheap few days out! (Just don't tell anyone, or the fare might get withdrawn... )

 

[YorksLad12]

Sounds like to buy a ticket nowadays, one has to have a PhD in "Ticketing Systems of British Train Operating Companies".

Thanks. I've been wondering what to do with my time instead of drawing very large maps on a small screen

I'm slightly dreading making my next trip to That London now, even though I'll be travelling from one terminus (Leeds) to another (KX). I do always travel with a reservation on an Advance Purchase ticket, but can I still book tickets via the website and get actual tickets or will I have to do eveything through a smartphone app that looks awful on a 4" screen? Am I more likely to catch Covid or get enough rewards points for a free return trip?

By this time next year it'll be easier to fly abroad for the weekend than book a return on LNER. I might be exaggerating, but I bet by not much.