Should Regional Railways be brought back?

[greatvoyager]

Sounds overcomplicated to me, why would the average passenger care about half a million brands? I've suggested the brands "Express", "Metro" and "Network" before with the regions coming before e.g "East Coast Express" or "Network West Midlands". It gives a consistent overall brand for what type of service is operated while giving some distinction between the different organisations which run each region.

Branding really should be the least complicated part in my opinion.

 

[domcoop7]

Sounds overcomplicated to me, why would the average passenger care about half a million brands? I've suggested the brands "Express", "Metro" and "Network" before with the regions coming before e.g "East Coast Express" or "Network West Midlands". It gives a consistent overall brand for what type of service is operated while giving some distinction between the different organisations which run each region.

Because one benefit of the present system is that where multiple franchises serve a station you get the company name which can help differentiate services. E.g. London Midland service to Birmingham vs Avanti West Coast service to Birmingham.

If that just got replaced with the 12.37 Birmingham service is on platform 11. The 12.42 Birmingham service is on platform 18, you may lose that.

And if it works for franchises my thinking was make it work for groups of lines. Buses have numbers and often route names, LU has tube line names and is proposing to introduce line names to the Overground Network. Motorways have numbers.

But it wouldn't be the main branding, just a way to identify the service.

Would also help e.g. when it's announced on the radio "there are delays on the Brighton Main Line" or "the Central Transpennine line is currently closed due to an incident" just like when they say "on the tube Central line services have delays of up to 30 minutes".

 

[Sad Sprinter]

As much as I’d like NSE back, I think RR services are best kept to the pre-nationalisation model. Keeping London bound and regional services together in one region.

 

[Iliketrains123]

People like to recreate things that bring back fond memories from younger days.

TPE would be intercity if BR branding was brought back.

Who on earth is nostalgic for Regional Railways? Good lord.

 

[Purple Orange]

Who on earth is nostalgic for Regional Railways? Good lord.

Some people on here, who I assume want to live in the late 80s and early 90s again.

 

[Sad Sprinter]

Some people on here, who I assume want to live in the late 80s and early 90s again.

Guilty as charged. Although born in ‘95 the late 80s were my favourite British Rail time period. Can also claim to have lived through a time when NSE branding was still fairly commonplace so can get nostalgic about it.

 

[CBlue]

Some people on here, who I assume want to live in the late 80s and early 90s again.

One or two car manufacturers (Namely Rover and Jaguar) tried selling models based on nostalgia for 1960s cars in the early 2000s. It didn't work for them very well and I remember the styling being heavy criticised.

Why would it be any different for railways? Leave the heritage and nostalgia to the heritage lines - that's what they're there for.

 

[Purple Orange]

Guilty as charged. Although born in ‘95 the late 80s were my favourite British Rail time period. Can also claim to have lived through a time when NSE branding was still fairly commonplace so can get nostalgic about it.

Nooooo!!! You’re young! You’re living through what should become your period of nostalgia! Grasp the 2020s by both hands! I was born in the early 80s and the 2000s feels like my ‘decade’. This decade is for you and your generation.

Obviously as far as railways are concerned, the next 20 years offers so much interesting change, even now with cross rail opening in your part of the world. HS2 will have a big impact on Birmingham and Manchester city centres which will be fascinating to see as well. The world is slowly waking up to seeing petrol & diesel as a bad thing, which will also have a huge impact on rail travel.

Go back to Regional Railways and the past? No thanks - the next 20-30 years will be fascinating.

 

[Mikey C]

Even the name itself smacks of "Not Intercity or London, so not really important". You could call it "Some Places That Are Outside the M25 and We In Charge Don't Know The Name of So We Just Call it Regional" Railways.

Also you have to ask what the connection is between Par to Penzance and Manchester Airport to Blackpool that would justify them being in the same brand?

Fair enough if you had a national brand, like BR (although of course today it would have to be called "Railways England"). But Regional Railways much as it has the nostalgia value for those of us in our 40s, it's a no from me!

Intercity and Network Southeast have a marketing and operational logic to them, whereas Regional was just the stuff left over bundled together

 

[Purple Orange]

Intercity and Network Southeast have a marketing and operational logic to them, whereas Regional was just the stuff left over bundled together

Exactly. This is why many franchise brands work:

• Trans Pennine Express = express services that link cities that traverse east-west and north-south either side of the Pennines (it even works for Manchester-Scotland services too).
• Great Western = Brunel’s old stomping ground from Paddington out to South Wales, Cornwall and the Cotswolds.
• Scotrail = rail services in Scotland.
• Merseyrail = services that connect you to Merseyside
• Etc etc

Where it works less I think are the brand names for London based TOCs. South Western is really focussed on the South East and perhaps a name more specific to the geography of Surrey and Hampshire may be better. Or just Network South East for the whole lot. If you were not familiar with services in to Waterloo, you’d be forgiven for assuming South West Rail (and variations of the name) relate to services from Paddington and trains in the actual south west of the country.

 

[Energy]

Even the name itself smacks of "Not Intercity or London, so not really important"

Unfortunately that has carried on today, Wales had dire rolling stock until the Welsh government took control in awarding the contract for TfW. Northern was unlikely to get new trains as the government called it bad value for money.

If it isn't London then the government cares less.

 

[Purple Orange]

Unfortunately that has carried on today, Wales had dire rolling stock until the Welsh government took control in awarding the contract for TfW. Northern was unlikely to get new trains as the government called it bad value for money.

If it isn't London then the government cares less.

Those are excellent reasons for continued devolvement and to never bring back BR.

 

[Energy]

Those are excellent reasons for continued devolvement and to never bring back BR.

Agreed. Wales and Scotland devolution has brought massive change with electrification and new trains. If I remember correctly the Welsh valleys were originally offered cast off class 315s had they been electrified.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Agreed. Wales and Scotland devolution has brought massive change with electrification and new trains. If I remember correctly the Welsh valleys were originally offered cast off class 315s had they been electrified.

That was the idea - until the true costs of the GW electrification emerged.

Anyway "cast off" 315's would have been a good "starter set" - after all the Ilkley scheme (thanks to the 1994 act) , had to make do with slam door 308's from East London and then got the excellent 334 sets. Similar could have been the outcome for the Valleys.

 

[cle]

That was the idea - until the true costs of the GW electrification emerged.

Anyway "cast off" 315's would have been a good "starter set" - after all the Ilkley scheme (thanks to the 1994 act) , had to make do with slam door 308's from East London and then got the excellent 334 sets. Similar could have been the outcome for the Valleys.

True. If the stock then died, but you had electrified lines - you'd end up with new. The 319s barely scraped the new Lancs lines before half of them being bundled off. And now 331s proliferate!

 

[Energy]

That was the idea - until the true costs of the GW electrification emerged.

Anyway "cast off" 315's would have been a good "starter set" - after all the Ilkley scheme (thanks to the 1994 act) , had to make do with slam door 308's from East London and then got the excellent 334 sets. Similar could have been the outcome for the Valleys.

There is always the concern of the cast offs staying though, its not like Wales' fleet had a great track record of replacement.

 

[Mikey C]

That was the idea - until the true costs of the GW electrification emerged.

Anyway "cast off" 315's would have been a good "starter set" - after all the Ilkley scheme (thanks to the 1994 act) , had to make do with slam door 308's from East London and then got the excellent 334 sets. Similar could have been the outcome for the Valleys.

And the electrified Hastings services got Class 411s, called 1066 Electrics to reflect how old the trains were

 

[ChiefPlanner]

And the electrified Hastings services got Class 411s, called 1066 Electrics to reflect how old the trains were

Very good ! - but at least the "new" trains had a bit more elbow room than the withdrawn DMU's.

A while ago now , but the sets must have come from tightening up already existing SE fleet allocations. (as did the Solent in fill electrification on the SW Division. Not bad for a so called "deeply inefficient" nationalised industry.