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Manchester - Crewe by TfW is generally 35 minutes.
Manchester - Bank Quay seems to be 35 or thereabouts; BQ to Crewe around 16 (but that's on a Pendolino, not a 175 - or 158 or 150 ); add in 2 minutes for the stop and a 35 minute journey becomes 53 at least. The best part of an extra 20 minutes!
Meanwhile passengers from Brum and Wolverhampton (and Crewe) to the likes of Preston, Lancaster, Carlisle and Scotland get a view of the Castlefield Corridor! (I know Crewe - Preston is around 40 mins; what would it be via Manchester?).
This really does seem to be a suggestion to take two useful services and to mess them around for no real purpose.
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The fact that they introduced basically 2-hourly stops, to complement the 2-hourly stopper, shows how important they think the link is !
Nope! It's not perfect. But many of those don't have alternatives. Eventually they should be wired and longer too. Or per Mid Cheshire, Stockport plays more of a role, if ever more platforms are added.
Rose Hill, the Met might play a part. The odd Sheffield could go that way too.
That's the point. If 17 mins Crewe to warrington requires 125mph running, then you have a point and I will concede. But if it is limited to 110mph then there is every chance a DMU could make that journey in that time. It also doesn't need to be 175s.
That's the point. If 17 mins Crewe to warrington requires 125mph running, then you have a point and I will concede. But if it is limited to 110mph then there is every chance a DMU could make that journey in that time. It also doesn't need to be 175s.
17 minutes from Crewe to Warrington is an average speed of 85.6 mph. An EPS of 125mph applies almost the whole way from just north of Crewe to Acton Grange Jn. In addition a Pendolino has a power to weight ratio of twice a 175.
Crewe to Coal Yard 1½
Coal Yard to Winsford 5
Winsford to Hartford Jn 3½
Hartford Jn to Acton Bridge 1
Acton Bridge to Weaver Jn 1
Weaver to Acton Grange 2½
Acton Grange to Warrington 2½ (stop)
Warrington to Dallam 1½
Dallam to Winwick 2 + {½}
Winwick to Earlestown 2½
Earlestown to NLW 1 + {½}
NLW to Parkside 1
Parkside to Astley 4
Astley to Eccles 4
Eccles to Ordsall Lane 3
Ordsall Lane to Water St ½
Water St to Deansgate 1
Deansgate to Oxford Rd 1
Oxford Rd to Picc 1½ (stop)
42 I think for a 175 with only a Warrington stop for 1 min
Crewe to Coal Yard 1½
Coal Yard to Winsford 5
Winsford to Hartford Jn 3½
Hartford Jn to Acton Bridge 1
Acton Bridge to Weaver Jn 1
Weaver to Acton Grange 2½
Acton Grange to Warrington 2½ (stop)
Warrington to Dallam 1½
Dallam to Winwick 2 + {½}
Winwick to Earlestown 2½
Earlestown to NLW 1 + {½}
NLW to Parkside 1
Parkside to Astley 4
Astley to Eccles 4
Eccles to Ordsall Lane 3
Ordsall Lane to Water St ½
Water St to Deansgate 1
Deansgate to Oxford Rd 1
Oxford Rd to Picc 1½ (stop)
42 I think for a 175 with only a Warrington stop for 1 min
Crewe to Coal Yard 1½
Coal Yard to Winsford 5
Winsford to Hartford Jn 3½
Hartford Jn to Acton Bridge 1
Acton Bridge to Weaver Jn 1
Weaver to Acton Grange 2½
Acton Grange to Warrington 2½ (stop)
Warrington to Dallam 1½
Dallam to Winwick 2 + {½}
Winwick to Earlestown 2½
Earlestown to NLW 1 + {½}
NLW to Parkside 1
Parkside to Astley 4
Astley to Eccles 4
Eccles to Ordsall Lane 3
Ordsall Lane to Water St ½
Water St to Deansgate 1
Deansgate to Oxford Rd 1
Oxford Rd to Picc 1½ (stop)
42 I think for a 175 with only a Warrington stop for 1 min
Ordsall to Vic would be 3 minutes so 41½, bear in mind Crewe to Picc via Stockport is 36 minutes clean with a Wilmslow and Stockport stop. It isn't apples vs apples. Take out the Wilmslow stop and its probably nearer 33
At no point have I said they are achievable, that is just whats there. I will check again to see if I need glasses at some point.
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Ordsall to Vic would be 3 minutes so 41½, bear in mind Crewe to Picc via Stockport is 36 minutes clean with a Wilmslow and Stockport stop. It isn't apples vs apples. Take out the Wilmslow stop and its probably nearer 33
Crewe to Coal Yard 1½
Coal Yard to Winsford 5
Winsford to Hartford Jn 3½
Hartford Jn to Acton Bridge 1
Acton Bridge to Weaver Jn 1
Weaver to Acton Grange 2½
Acton Grange to Warrington 2½ (stop)
Warrington to Dallam 1½
Dallam to Winwick 2 + {½}
Winwick to Earlestown 2½
Earlestown to NLW 1 + {½}
NLW to Parkside 1
Parkside to Astley 4
Astley to Eccles 4
Eccles to Ordsall Lane 3
Ordsall Lane to Water St ½
Water St to Deansgate 1
Deansgate to Oxford Rd 1
Oxford Rd to Picc 1½ (stop)
42 I think for a 175 with only a Warrington stop for 1 min
The Railway Performance Society fastest time for a dmu (Class 158) between Crewe and Manchester Oxford Road (diverted via Warrington) is 41m 50s., but 45-46 mins was more typical.
Crewe to Warrington Bank Quay best is 18m 05s., also by a Class 158.
Are Class 175s cleared for this section ?
1W74 means nothing to me if I’m honest. However, if you search on the Trainline app for services between Crewe and Piccadilly, all TFW services are advertised as taking 43 minutes. That is the information that passengers will refer to and if there was another service taking a similar time via Warrington, who would care? Not many.
1W74 means nothing to me if I’m honest. However, if you search on the Trainline app for services between Crewe and Piccadilly, all TFW services are advertised as taking 43 minutes. That is the information that passengers will refer to and if there was another service taking a similar time via Warrington, who would care? Not many.
I said it was the 2134 off Crewe last night as a random train. If you want to cloud it with what TfW do with the public times vs the actual WTT times then that is up to you. You will see that every train arriving into Man Picc has +5 added on to the public time by TfW and they will all arrive early. The argument as to whether that is a true representation of journey time is different. @6Gman asked for the running times that would be used to path a train, I supplied them.
I said it was the 2134 off Crewe last night as a random train. If you want to cloud it with what TfW do with the public times vs the actual WTT times then that is up to you. You will see that every train arriving into Man Picc has +5 added on to the public time by TfW and they will all arrive early. The argument as to whether that is a true representation of journey time is different. @6Gman asked for the running times that would be used to path a train, I supplied them.
If S Wales - Mancheaster via Wilmslow requires/ justifies/ qualifies for "5 in a box" into Manchester I suspect the same service via Warrington would require something similar.
I also note that Ordsall Lane to Piccadilly is 4 minutes without stopping at Oxford Road. Strikes me that though that would be achievable at (say) three in the morning on a largely empty railway, it would be ambitious throughout most of the day.
I said it was the 2134 off Crewe last night as a random train. If you want to cloud it with what TfW do with the public times vs the actual WTT times then that is up to you. You will see that every train arriving into Man Picc has +5 added on to the public time by TfW and they will all arrive early. The argument as to whether that is a true representation of journey time is different. @6Gman asked for the running times that would be used to path a train, I supplied them.
But it is the public that make a decision based on the information they have to hand. The information often presented on this forum, although useful to know, is not often presented to the public and as such using information that is available from the timetable is going to ultimately be the determining factor in whether people use the service or not.
There might be minor timing differences between via Wilmslow and via Warrington/Chat Moss, but I think this still shows that the idea has potential. Adding a stop at Warrington would be useful, I think there will be more passengers using a Warrington-South Wales service, than a Stockport/Wilmslow-South Wales service.
If diverting the London-Birmingham-Scotland via Manchester is unsustainable, then an alternative idea could be to divert one of the CC services via Crewe and Wilmslow. Again I think a direct link between Wilmslow and the West Midlands would be more beneficial than one to Shrewsbury and South Wales. As mentioned above, an additional semi-fast Northern shuttle to Crewe is another option if Cross Country isn't an option.
There might be minor timing differences between via Wilmslow and via Warrington/Chat Moss, but I think this still shows that the idea has potential. Adding a stop at Warrington would be useful, I think there will be more passengers using a Warrington-South Wales service, than a Stockport/Wilmslow-South Wales service.
If diverting the London-Birmingham-Scotland via Manchester is unsustainable, then an alternative idea could be to divert one of the CC services via Crewe and Wilmslow. Again I think a direct link between Wilmslow and the West Midlands would be more beneficial than one to Shrewsbury and South Wales. As mentioned above, an additional semi-fast Northern shuttle to Crewe is another option if Cross Country isn't an option.
It's speculative, but worth mentioning that when Wilmslow gained the hourly London service there was a big boom in London travel from there, so could a new link to the West Midlands have a similar effect?
It's speculative, but worth mentioning that when Wilmslow gained the hourly London service there was a big boom in London travel from there, so could a new link to the West Midlands have a similar effect?
I have to say from a Wilmslow perspective, until the Manchester Airport HS2 station is open, 1 tph to London from Wilmslow is useful. TfW to South Wales is neither here nor there. What is far more useful is more Northern services to Manchester. Alderley Edge, Wilmslow, Handforth and Styal stations are sitting in areas that really can be considered as the same town in terms of interaction. Manchester Airport station is also a local station to folk living in the town. What would be beneficial is better connections between all these stations (and to Cheadle Hulme, Heald Green & Gatley too).
); add in 2 minutes for the stop and a 35 minute journey becomes 53 at least. The best part of an extra 20 minutes!
