Crewe HS2

[Purple Orange]

Since HS2 have introduced a north facing spur from Crewe back on to HS2, there is probably a lot that could be done to utilise this piece of infrastructure. In my mind I think it could facilitate better east-west connections through Leeds & Manchester in conjunction with a building a hybrid of Trans Pennine Route Upgrade (TRU) and Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR). Possibly we could see:

• 2 tph Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York
• 2 tph London Euston, OOC, Birmingham Interchange, Crewe, Warrington, Liverpool.

This could be in conjunction with:

• 2 tph Birmingham Curzon Street, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Berwick, Edinburgh
• 2 tph Liverpool, Warrington, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle
• 2 tph Liverpool, Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Victoria, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Leeds, Hull (semi-fast)

Thoughts?

 

[edwin_m]

Since HS2 have introduced a north facing spur from Crewe back on to HS2, there is probably a lot that could be done to utilise this piece of infrastructure. In my mind I think it could facilitate better east-west connections through Leeds & Manchester in conjunction with a building a hybrid of Trans Pennine Route Upgrade (TRU) and Northern Powerhouse Rail (NPR). Possibly we could see:

• 2 tph Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York
• 2 tph London Euston, OOC, Birmingham Interchange, Crewe, Warrington, Liverpool.

This could be in conjunction with:

• 2 tph Birmingham Curzon Street, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle, Berwick, Edinburgh
• 2 tph Liverpool, Warrington, Manchester Airport, Manchester Piccadilly, Huddersfield, Leeds, York, Darlington, Durham, Newcastle
• 2 tph Liverpool, Newton-le-Willows, Manchester Victoria, Stalybridge, Huddersfield, Dewsbury, Leeds, Hull (semi-fast)

Thoughts?

It does create some interesting possibilities and I think some of these are likely to happen, particularly Birmingham-Manchester-Leeds - assuming both NPR and HS2 western leg go ahead. I'm less convinced about trains that use the classic network parallel to an HS2/NPR route then hop onto high speed infrastructure, as these would need to use an expensive classic-compatible train to provide a through journey that a lot of people could do more quickly by staying on HS.

Another issue is that most of these would need to be linking together services already planned rather than adding new ones, as the relevant sections are likely to be close to full capacity. Also the platforms on NPR are likely to be shorter than HS2 so may not be able to take a full length set running through.

 

[Purple Orange]

It does create some interesting possibilities and I think some of these are likely to happen, particularly Birmingham-Manchester-Leeds - assuming both NPR and HS2 western leg go ahead. I'm less convinced about trains that use the classic network parallel to an HS2/NPR route then hop onto high speed infrastructure, as these would need to use an expensive classic-compatible train to provide a through journey that a lot of people could do more quickly by staying on HS.

Another issue is that most of these would need to be linking together services already planned rather than adding new ones, as the relevant sections are likely to be close to full capacity. Also the platforms on NPR are likely to be shorter than HS2 so may not be able to take a full length set running through.

The max set would likely be 200m in any circumstances and I think we need to assume that NPR will be a hybrid of using new and existing track, which brings us straight to classic compatible trains. However there are a couple of issues with the use of a fleet of dedicated high speed trains.

First if the eastern branch is not built in full, there wills be a micro fleet of trains serving 6-8 tph. Or all trains could be classic compatible resulting in a more agile fleet.

Second is NPR/TRU itself. The route lends itself to Javelin type trains which brings with it a 3rd class of train to the network.

Third being that on HS2 alone, of the planned 23 planned services, half will be classic compatible with the rest running on the shortest routes to begin with.

 

[Gareth]

I think Liverpool is disadvantaged enough post-2b without having its already comparatively slow London services go via Warrington.

A Birmingham HS2 service would be more useful and it's still not entirely clear to me why this isn't being considered.

 

[Ianno87]

I think Liverpool is disadvantaged enough post-2b without having its already comparatively slow London services go via Warrington.

That would be Warrington station on the New NPR route to Liverpool, which would likely be faster than the present route via Runcorn (because that's the whole point of it)

 

[Purple Orange]

That would be Warrington station on the New NPR route to Liverpool, which would likely be faster than the present route via Runcorn (because that's the whole point of it)

Indeed. In fact if the Eastern branch is not built and the government was to back an NPR route through Warrington, there may well be Brum-Liverpool HS2 services.

 

[Gareth]

Oh. Fair enough.

Not that I think such infrastructure will see the light of day but that's a debate for another day.

 

[Purple Orange]

Oh. Fair enough.

Not that I think such infrastructure will see the light of day but that's a debate for another day.

I agree with you there.