Hypothetical: Post-HS2 WCML Timetable

[The Planner]

The proposals seem to lack imagination and echo the pre HS2 service.

Also Crossrail might be in the picture for suburban services, but leaving that out. I think something along the following lines would make more sense.

4 Per hour Euston clockface, Watford, Bletchley, MK, Northampton, Long Buckby, Rugby, Coventry. 2 Extend to Birmingham New St, 2 to Nuneaton.

2 Per Hour, Clockface Euston, Watford, Hemel, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, MK, Rugby, Nuneaton, Trent Valley Stations, Stafford, Stoke one to Manchester, one to Liverpool via Crewe.

4tph to Nuneaton? Presumably the Leamington Nuneaton shuttle is curtailed at Cov? Makes the proposed bay redundant too.

 

[Metrolink]

4tph to Nuneaton? Presumably the Leamington Nuneaton shuttle is curtailed at Cov? Makes the proposed bay redundant too.

if you curtail the service what happens to Kenilworth and it’s services?

 

[Hey 3]

What is your thinking on the above routing? (I presume it's to be via Stafford and Crewe, as opposed to Shrewsbury?)

It is via Stafford and Crewe

 

[Bletchleyite]

4tph to Nuneaton? Presumably the Leamington Nuneaton shuttle is curtailed at Cov? Makes the proposed bay redundant too.

I'm a bit confused what the relevance of Cov-Nun is to a service on the Trent Valley?

 

[Purple Orange]

You said there were plans for Birmingham- Manchester- Leeds services. AFAIK there aren't and HS2b and NPR are separate projects. My personal view is still that NPR new infrastructure won't happen apart from any plans under the Transpennine Route Upgrade

I will dig out a link to document that was published on the Piccadilly HS2 station later. In that it highlights the planned service pattern through Piccadilly, which talks about the Birmingham-Manchester HS2 trains continuing through to Leeds via NPR (or even TRU). The key piece of infrastructure is the junction towards Ardwick and if as you believe, NPR will just be TRU (I agree I is more likely to be TRU than a completely new line) and the HS2 eastern branch is not built or just a short section is built to the east midlands, Birmingham-Leeds flows will be faster via Manchester (even with a change of trains) than the service via Sheffield.

 

[HSTEd]

It's a pity the Old Oak Common WLL platform will be on the route to Willesden Junction High Level, rather than further south.

Then you could break the WLL off from the NLL and pull 5tph of southern WCML services through to Clapham Junction.

 

[Purple Orange]

You said there were plans for Birmingham- Manchester- Leeds services. AFAIK there aren't and HS2b and NPR are separate projects. My personal view is still that NPR new infrastructure won't happen apart from any plans under the Transpennine Route Upgrade

I will dig out a link to document that was published on the Piccadilly HS2 station later. In that it highlights the planned service pattern through Piccadilly, which talks about the Birmingham-Manchester HS2 trains continuing through to Leeds via NPR (or even TRU). The key piece of infrastructure is the junction towards Ardwick and if as you believe, NPR will just be TRU (I agree I is more likely to be TRU than a completely new line) and the HS2 eastern branch is not built or just a short section is built to the east midlands, Birmingham-Leeds flows will be faster via Manchester (even with a change of trains) than the service via Sheffield.

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/639616/response/1535361/attach/4/Name%20Redacted%20Development%20of%20Piccadilly%20Station%20Final%20Report.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

All that needs to happen, as an absolute minimum, is HS2 phase 2b western branch, Trans Pennine Route Upgrade (which should include full electrification) and the junction at Piccadilly HS2 towards Ardwick connected to the existing line.

However I think HS2 phase 2b eastern branch will happen and there will be a short bypass line built somewhere between Leeds & Manchester that utilises the TRU infrastructure.

 

[krus_aragon]

It is via Stafford and Crewe

Thanks for the clarification. I was actually wondering why you'd suggest that route, as opposed to the current one.

 

[adrock1976]

What about Leighton Buzzard's claims to a fast service?

Would the fast Leighton Buzzard service be for the band members of Kajagoogoo* for whenever they participate in any 1980s revival events?

*Kajagoogoo rose to fame in 1983 after naming themselves after the sound a new born baby makes. They had a big UK Number 1 with "Too Shy" and a Top Ten with "Big Apple", and not much else after that. I remember they had a ridiculous fashion style too.

 

[The Planner]

I'm a bit confused what the relevance of Cov-Nun is to a service on the Trent Valley?

The proposal was 2tph via the TV to Nuneaton and 2tph turning right at Cov to Nuneaton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 11 Apr 2021 ==

Would the fast Leighton Buzzard service be for the band members of Kajagoogoo* for whenever they participate in any 1980s revival events?

*Kajagoogoo rose to fame in 1983 after naming themselves after the sound a new born baby makes. They had a big UK Number 1 with "Too Shy" and a Top Ten with "Big Apple", and not much else after that. I remember they had a ridiculous fashion style too.

Quite possibly the strangest post I have seen on here....

 

[Bevan Price]

I think there will be fewer reductions to WCML services than some expect. Anything much worse, would be politically unacceptable, and MPs would be swamped with complaints. Remember that although London is a major "target", plenty of people want to travel to/from other places. So, there will be a few reductions, and additional stops on the residual "fast" services.

So, maybe, something like (1 tph unless shown otherwise)
(Currently Avanti)
Liverpool - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Nuneaton - (MK or Watford Jn) - Euston
Manchester - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke - Tamworth - (MK or Watford Jn) - Euston
Holyhead / Bangor - main stations to Chester - Crewe - Rugby - MK - Euston
(Glasgow) - Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - MK - Euston
(Glasgow, Motherwell) or (Edinburgh, Haymarket, Lockerbie) in alternate hours. then:
Carlisle - Penrith - Oxenholme - Lancaster - Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham - Coventry - Rugby - MK - Watford Jn - Euston.
Wolverhampton - Birmingham - B'ham International - Coventry - Rugby - MK - Watford Jn - Euston.

(Semi-fast/stopping)
Liverpool - Birmingham largely unchanged.
Euston - Tring stoppers (2 tph). Mostly extended to MK & Northampton if paths available.
(Alternatively Euston - Watford Jn - Tring - stations to MK - Wolverton - Northampton, 2 tph; timed to connect with stoppers at Tring)
Euston - Watford Jn - MK - Northampton semi-fast (2 tph)
Euston - Watford Jn - MK - Rugby - Trent Valley stations to Stafford (2 tph); extended alternately to (semi-fast via Stoke to Manchester) plus (Stafford to Crewe, maybe extended to Preston or Blackpool)
Northampton - Rugby - Coventry - B'ham International - Birmingham (2 tph if paths available)
Northamton - Rugby - Coventry - Birmingham (all stations, 2 tph )

 

[Metrolink]

For the XC services what if there was a 2tph Liverpool to Oxford with 1tph extended to Bournemouth, and a South West/ Bristol to Manchester using Crewe as an interchange and timetabling so they arrive at similar times so Manchester can transfer to Oxford and Liverpool - Bristol. Birmingham can also be used for services from South West - Liverpool, and so on.

 

[Bletchleyite]

For the XC services what if there was a 2tph Liverpool to Oxford with 1tph extended to Bournemouth, and a South West/ Bristol to Manchester using Crewe as an interchange and timetabling so they arrive at similar times so Manchester can transfer to Oxford and Liverpool - Bristol. Birmingham can also be used for services from South West - Liverpool, and so on.

XC is an interesting question. If there's going to be 2tph of HS2 Manchester-Brum services, but Liverpool is unchanged, it could well be worth diverting the long distance XCs (i.e. the ones past Brum) to t'other end of t'M62 instead.

It might be worth with HS2 revisiting entirely what XC is for, because HS2 will unseat it as the fast service on many routes. It might be that it's best to split it up, or it might be that the original concept (relatively infrequent direct services for e.g. holidaymakers for whom too much changing is a big faff) is actually worth reviving in some form if they can be pathed, perhaps based on a two-hourly approach with splitting/joining.

New thread to continue this (and I got to use the word "whither" )

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/whither-xc-after-hs2.216247/

 

[Glenn1969]

I think places of reasonable size that currently have an inadequate IC service for whatever reason may be a good fit for XC going forward. I'm thinking Barnsley, Bradford, Hull, Meadowhall and Middlesbrough on the East side and maybe Blackpool and possibly Chester/North Wales on the West side. Wonder what you guys think?

 

[A0]

I think there will be fewer reductions to WCML services than some expect. Anything much worse, would be politically unacceptable, and MPs would be swamped with complaints. Remember that although London is a major "target", plenty of people want to travel to/from other places. So, there will be a few reductions, and additional stops on the residual "fast" services.

So, maybe, something like (1 tph unless shown otherwise)
(Currently Avanti)
Liverpool - Runcorn - Crewe - Stafford - Nuneaton - (MK or Watford Jn) - Euston
Manchester - Stockport - Macclesfield - Stoke - Tamworth - (MK or Watford Jn) - Euston
Holyhead / Bangor - main stations to Chester - Crewe - Rugby - MK - Euston
(Glasgow) - Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - MK - Euston
(Glasgow, Motherwell) or (Edinburgh, Haymarket, Lockerbie) in alternate hours. then:
Carlisle - Penrith - Oxenholme - Lancaster - Preston - Wigan - Warrington - Crewe - Stafford - Wolverhampton - Birmingham - Coventry - Rugby - MK - Watford Jn - Euston.
Wolverhampton - Birmingham - B'ham International - Coventry - Rugby - MK - Watford Jn - Euston.

(Semi-fast/stopping)
Liverpool - Birmingham largely unchanged.
Euston - Tring stoppers (2 tph). Mostly extended to MK & Northampton if paths available.
(Alternatively Euston - Watford Jn - Tring - stations to MK - Wolverton - Northampton, 2 tph; timed to connect with stoppers at Tring)
Euston - Watford Jn - MK - Northampton semi-fast (2 tph)
Euston - Watford Jn - MK - Rugby - Trent Valley stations to Stafford (2 tph); extended alternately to (semi-fast via Stoke to Manchester) plus (Stafford to Crewe, maybe extended to Preston or Blackpool)
Northampton - Rugby - Coventry - B'ham International - Birmingham (2 tph if paths available)
Northamton - Rugby - Coventry - Birmingham (all stations, 2 tph )

Extending the Tring terminators keeps coming up, but makes precisely no sense.

Tring is about as far out of London as Stevenage is - and the Tring stoppers take about 45 minutes to get from Euston - Tring (similar to the Stevenage - Moorgate services). If you go extending those onto MK or Northampton, you'll be looking at a London - MK journey time of over an hour and a Northampton journey time of at least 1h 20m - nobody is going to use them with those kind of journey times. Suggesting extending these services to MK or Northampton is akin to suggesting extending the Stevenage - Moorgate services to Huntingdon or Cambridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Extending the Tring terminators keeps coming up, but makes precisely no sense.

Tring is about as far out of London as Stevenage is - and the Tring stoppers take about 45 minutes to get from Euston - Tring (similar to the Stevenage - Moorgate services). If you go extending those onto MK or Northampton, you'll be looking at a London - MK journey time of over an hour and a Northampton journey time of at least 1h 20m - nobody is going to use them with those kind of journey times. Suggesting extending these services to MK or Northampton is akin to suggesting extending the Stevenage - Moorgate services to Huntingdon or Cambridge.

Like almost everyone does when considering these services, you are again forgetting intermediate demand. It's nothing like extending Stevenage to Cambridge, because Stevenage's population (and associated employment) is about a third of the size of MK.

FWIW I personally prefer the morning peak services that start at Bletchley despite these being extended Tring stoppers (originally because they came off Bletchley CS with a Bletchley driver and guard so might as well operate in service) and so quite slow (the 0711 ish off Bletchley actually starts back from Northampton, too!) for easy seat availability, so there are reasons to go slower even then.

 

[Metrolink]

I think places of reasonable size that currently have an inadequate IC service for whatever reason may be a good fit for XC going forward. I'm thinking Barnsley, Bradford, Hull, Meadowhall and Middlesbrough on the East side and maybe Blackpool and possibly Chester/North Wales on the West side. Wonder what you guys think?

I was thinking that on my proposed XC timetable. I included Hull, Chester, Liverpool and these need direct services - not an all change at Birmingham which would not work.

 

[A0]

Like almost everyone does when considering these services, you are again forgetting intermediate demand. It's nothing like extending Stevenage to Cambridge, because Stevenage's population (and associated employment) is about a third of the size of MK.

FWIW I personally prefer the morning peak services that start at Bletchley despite these being extended Tring stoppers (originally because they came off Bletchley CS with a Bletchley driver and guard so might as well operate in service) and so quite slow (the 0711 ish off Bletchley actually starts back from Northampton, too!) for easy seat availability, so there are reasons to go slower even then.

You're contradicting yourself.

On the one hand your citing MK as a destination for employment, yet there's already a regular service calling at the intermediate stations between MK and Hemel - and the trains heading north into MK aren't as busy as those heading south in the morning (and vice versa in the evening). So demand into MK is more than covered.

The whole point of the Tring stoppers is to spread the demand and mitigate how crowded trains are - so people getting on at Tring and intermediate stations towards London aren't all having to vie with MK commuters for seats - yet you think that should be lost by extending those stoppers to MK ?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The whole point of the Tring stoppers is to spread the demand and mitigate how crowded trains are - so people getting on at Tring and intermediate stations towards London aren't all having to vie with MK commuters for seats - yet you think that should be lost by extending those stoppers to MK ?

Er, no it's not. The Tring stoppers actually used to be Bletchley/MKC stoppers, and the main reason they were truncated (and Tring station rebuilt with the turnback for them) was line capacity, as the local service on the fast line had to be reduced due to the VHF timetable. At the same time the Southern went back to going north of Watford and provided some replacement connections.

The official proposals I've seen so far (as opposed to our speculation) have them extended back to Bletchley and possibly a third one per hour added.

 

[A0]

Er, no it's not. The Tring stoppers actually used to be Bletchley/MKC stoppers, and the main reason they were truncated (and Tring station rebuilt with the turnback for them) was line capacity, as the local service on the fast line had to be reduced due to the VHF timetable. At the same time the Southern went back to going north of Watford and provided some replacement connections.

The official proposals I've seen so far (as opposed to our speculation) have them extended back to Bletchley and possibly a third one per hour added.

Extending to Bletchley isn't the same as extending to MKC or Northampton though - and may be as simple to justify for operational convenience, given that's where a number of LNW units are already stabled. No different to the days when the Stevenage - Moorgate service used to run to Letchworth.

You were simultaneously arguing that they should be extended to MK and beyond to ensure more seats from those destinations, yet their curtailment at Tring (or even Bletchley) means people further down the line get a chance of getting a seat..... Seems like you want your cake and to eat it, but if you live in Tring or somewhere like that then tough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

You were simultaneously arguing that they should be extended to MK and beyond to ensure more seats from those destinations, yet their curtailment at Tring (or even Bletchley) means people further down the line get a chance of getting a seat..... Seems like you want your cake and to eat it, but if you live in Tring or somewhere like that then tough.

No, I was suggesting they could be extended to MKC or beyond to provide for intermediate journeys (Bletchley is just one stop short of MKC of course). I like boarding trains at or near their origin for choice of seats, but that is not a reason to actually do that, it's just a happy side-effect that explains why I choose to use slower trains.

 

[A0]

No, I was suggesting they could be extended to MKC or beyond to provide for intermediate journeys (Bletchley is just one stop short of MKC of course). I like boarding trains at or near their origin for choice of seats, but that is not a reason to actually do that, it's just a happy side-effect that explains why I choose to use slower trains.

But those "intermediate" journeys, by which I assume you mean things like Tring to Northampton or Cheddington to Wolverton are only used by a handful of people a day.

Far better use of the paths and the units would be to improve journey times from Northampton and MK to the destinations, I dunno, that people actually *want* to go to ? So, logically on the southern bit of the WCML that would be Hemel (at a push), Watford and London. Going north, suggesting random terminators at Nuneaton or long distance services crawling along the TV to stop 3 or 4 times in 20 miles is equally nonsensical.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But those "intermediate" journeys, by which I assume you mean things like Tring to Northampton or Cheddington to Wolverton are only used by a handful of people a day.

No, I mean local stations to/from Hemel, Bletchley (for EWR), MKC and Northampton, all of which have a decent amount of employment and leisure facilities that people might want to get to.

I'd imagine Apsley and Kings Langley (not exactly metropolises, but suburbs of Hemel, perhaps Wolverton equivalents?) might find a service north of Tring useful? I bet their poor northbound connectivity causes a fair few car journeys, either to Hemel itself or all the way to MK, Brum or wherever?

Going north, suggesting random terminators at Nuneaton or long distance services crawling along the TV to stop 3 or 4 times in 20 miles is equally nonsensical.

It's not, because the Trent Valley, post HS2, is only a local railway, bar the residual probably 2 ICs (1x North Wales and 1x Manchester on the official suggestions I've seen). HS2 replaces its main long distance role.

By the way, did you ever travel on the LNR Crewes and see (a) how busy they are, and (b) how Crewe isn't actually the main destination (so not everyone is just using it to cheap out going to Liverpool and Manchester)?

 

[A0]

No, I mean local stations to/from Hemel, Bletchley (for EWR), MKC and Northampton, all of which have a decent amount of employment and leisure facilities that people might want to get to.

I'd imagine Apsley and Kings Langley (not exactly metropolises, but suburbs of Hemel, perhaps Wolverton equivalents?) might find a service north of Tring useful? I bet their poor northbound connectivity causes a fair few car journeys, either to Hemel itself or all the way to MK, Brum or wherever?



It's not, because the Trent Valley, post HS2, is only a local railway, bar the residual probably 2 ICs (1x North Wales and 1x Manchester on the official suggestions I've seen). HS2 replaces its main long distance role.

By the way, did you ever travel on the LNR Crewes and see (a) how busy they are, and (b) how Crewe isn't actually the main destination (so not everyone is just using it to cheap out going to Liverpool and Manchester)?

Hemel station has relatively low usage - mainly because it's right out of town by a long way. It's one of the reasons that a Green Line coach service into London has survived and prospered.

The northbound connectivity isn't the problem - as I've explained before - the issue is at MK and Northampton and Hemel the stations are all a *long way* from most of the employment.

Take Northampton - probably the largest employers in the town (with the kind of jobs people will commute a distance to) are Barclaycard (Brackmills), Travis Perkins (Lodge Farm) - neither are walkable from the station.

So if you're travelling from Hemel to Northampton to one of those jobs, you really aren't going to spend 20 mins driving across Hemel to get a train to Northampton to then spend 20 mins on a bus. Particularly when the northbound M1 isn't particularly congested.

MK's little better - you have a couple of large employers in the centre, walking distance from the station - Sainsburys (Argos), Santander and BP - but others like VW, Mercedes, are at Willen, Dominos are at Beahill, White Clarke Group or K&N at Linford Wood.

You are offering solutions looking for problems - not problems that your solution will address though.

On the TV, yep used it several times. And it's a mix of uses - some are no doubt using it as a cheap way to Manchester or Liverpool, but alot were using it to get from Stoke - Stafford, Stafford to points along the TV and, on the southern section Rugby or Northampton to London.

Just because HS2 removes some services from the TV, it doesn't then mean the TV stations automatically become traffic sources or destinations that require an 'inter city' standard of service. Lichfield's a similar size to Bromsgrove for example - both a similar distance from Birmingham - that's the kind of measure which should be used. Similarly Telford is 5 times bigger than Lichfield - that would be a far better place to be focussing on, rather than trying to make 2 horse towns something more than they are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

MK's little better - you have a couple of large employers in the centre, walking distance from the station - Sainsburys (Argos), Santander and BP - but others like VW, Mercedes, are at Willen, Dominos are at Beahill, White Clarke Group or K&N at Linford Wood.

Central MK is a business park with an associated major regional shopping centre. That's absolutely loads of employment.

 

[A0]

Central MK is a business park with an associated major regional shopping centre. That's absolutely loads of employment.

*sigh*

Try reading what I said:

"with the kind of jobs people will commute a distance to"

Retail workers (and I've worked in retail) will generally NOT travel particularly far unless they are at store manager level. Partly because it's not that well paid, partly because retail jobs are 10 a penny and therefore it's nearly always possible to secure one closer to home. Management won't use a train, because they end up working anti-social hours (there always has to be a duty manager and shops can and are open until 10pm and beyond) and they are usually keyholders if the alarm goes off, so they won't be getting a train at 2am to respond to an alarm call.

Within the office work, at secretarial and admin levels, again people generally don't travel far to work. In a career of over 2 decades, where I've worked in Hemel and MK for different companies, most people have lived within 5-10 miles of the office. At more senior levels this was less so and people were more prepared to travel, but relatively it was fewer people - most organisation structures are like a 'triangle' with fewer people the further up the hierarchy you go.

I'm willing to bet that in the Centre MK over 80% of those who work in the shops live within Milton Keynes.

Within the offices which immediately surround it - Avebury Boulevard, Witan Gate etc etc - it's probably over 70%.

The number of people I've worked with in my time in MK who lived in Tring ? None. Berkhamsted ? None. Northampton, yep a few because the house prices were attractive, but you wouldn't get any of us using the train because the time just to get to Northampton station would increase current E2E journey times by about 50%.

 

[Bletchleyite]

*sigh*

Try reading what I said:

"with the kind of jobs people will commute a distance to"

So you ignored the major regional business park in CMK as well? It's not just two employers, it is significant in its size. And you've also got those two very big employers, Santander (who are consolidating 3 UK-wide sites into their new MK site, right opposite the station) and Network Rail.

It is not just office juniors and admins.

The number of people I've worked with in my time in MK who lived in Tring ? None. Berkhamsted ? None. Northampton, yep a few because the house prices were attractive, but you wouldn't get any of us using the train because the time just to get to Northampton station would increase current E2E journey times by about 50%.

I'd venture that most people don't live in Northampton town centre.

And your suggestion elsewhere that Hemel station is quiet is laughable. Just over 2 million entries/exits in 2018-19. Bletchley, for example, is half that. You give the impression of a one man, dog and bicycle branch line - the only south WCML station that is even vaguely like that is Cheddington.

 

[A0]

So you ignored the major regional business park in CMK as well? It's not just two employers, it is significant in its size. And you've also got those two very big employers, Santander (who are consolidating 3 UK-wide sites into their new MK site, right opposite the station) and Network Rail.

It is not just office juniors and admins.

Post 114# MK's little better - you have a couple of large employers in the centre, walking distance from the station - Sainsburys (Argos), Santander and BP

So I didn't mention NR. Incidentally the people I know who work at NR all drive to work, mainly because they live nowhere near a railway station.

And whilst Santander are consolidating and building a new office, MK has been one of their major offices for some years (it was the Abbey National HQ I believe), but they will have *fewer* people in the office as they are increasing the amount of remote working. Also interesting to note they are providing 900 parking spaces at that site. They also have a large office at Shenley Wood, which I suspect will be closing and merged in with the centre one.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 12 Apr 2021 ==

And your suggestion elsewhere that Hemel station is quiet is laughable. Just over 2 million entries/exits in 2018-19. Bletchley, for example, is half that. You give the impression of a one man, dog and bicycle branch line - the only south WCML station that is even vaguely like that is Cheddington.

Population of Hemel 97.5k, station usage 2m

St Albans population 57.5k, City station usage 7.5m

Hatfield population 40k, Hatfield station usage 2.3m

All are about the same distance out of London.

So yes, I do think Hemel station is relatively poorly used for a town of its size and most of that is due to its poor siting. Hatfield's station is also poorly sited, but being much smaller it has less of an impact.

 

[adrock1976]

My suggestion for Table 68 services (Rugby - Stafford via Birmingham) is as follows:

1 x InterCity West Coast London Euston - Shrewsbury, calling Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham Int, Birmingham New Street, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington Telford West, Shrewsbury
1 x InterCity West Coast London Euston - Liverpool Lime Street calling Watford Junction, Milton Keynes Central, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham Int, Birmingham New Street, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Hartford, Runcorn, Liverpool LS
1 x InterCity Cross Country Southampton Central/Reading - Manchester Piccadilly calling Oxford General, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham Int, Birmingham New Street, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Stoke-on-Trent, Macclesfield, Stockport, Manchester Pic
1 x InterCity Cross Country Bournemouth - Glasgow Central/Edinburgh Waverley calling Brockenhurst, Southampton Central, Southampton Airport Parkway, Winchester, Basingstoke, Reading, Oxford General, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry, Birmingham Int, Birmingham New Street, Sandwell & Dudley, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston, Lancaster, Oxenholme, Penrith, Carlisle, Lockerbie, then either Motherwell, Glasgow Central or Haymarket, Edinburgh Waverley

2 x Regional Express London Euston - Birmingham New Street via Northampton calling Watford Junction, Hemel Hempstead, Berkhamsted, Leighton Buzzard, Bletchley, Milton Keynes Central, Wolverton, Northampton, Long Buckby, Hillmorton (Rugby Parkway), Rugby, Coventry, (maybe Tile Hill for connection with trams), Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street

2 x Local Coventry - Wolverhampton calling all stations (maybe omitting Adderley Park) via New Street
2 x Local Birmingham International - Wolverhampton calling all stations (maybe omitting Smethwick Rolfe Street) via New Street

1 x Regional Express Birmingham New Street* - Chester (or Aberystwyth) calling Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Wellington Telford West, Shrewsbury, and onwards to Chester (or Aberystwyth)
1 x Regional Express Birmingham New Street - Crewe via Stoke-on-Trent calling Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Penkridge, Stafford, Stone, Barlaston, Stoke-on-Trent, Kidsgrove, Alsager, Crewe

Not shown but uses part of the route:

2 x Birmingham International - Rugeley Trent Valley calling New Street, Soho Road, Tame Bridge Parkway, Besot Stadium, Walsall, and all stations to Rugeley TV

* Subject to the Senedd being amenable to curtailing at New Street.

 

[The Planner]

By my counting, that is 14 trains between International to New St, including 4 all station stoppers, good luck with that one....