East-West Rail (EWR): Consultation updates [not speculation]

[ironstone11]

At the Bletchley flyover, both sides of the box structure, assembled from shell blocks, look complete. A large number of cross beams have been delivered. At the northern end, the structure terminates a few yards from pier 24, still in place. A new shell block pier is being constructed at pier 17. On the other side of the Buckingham road, vertical steel reinforcements for pier 30 can be seen and the concrete foundation pad is evidently in place (visible in a shot posted on Twitter, see page 164). The solid piers 29,28 and 27 adjacent to the Buckingham road are being fitted with temporary working platforms attached to the concrete. One understands that these piers are to be extended with shell blocks.

Thank you. A very useful and interesting update.

Another update here:-

on YouTube.

 

[21C101]

Bedford residents are particularly quiet about this consultation so far. Even though I've shoved it in their faces. No doubt it will all kick off when mayor Dave supports it. As soon as he rings his bell everyone jumps on it and starts protesting.

Any more news on the flyover? After the 12th I might take a drive up there.

Early days yet plus the consultation was released just before a major bank holiday weekend when media reports can expected to be lessened as people on holiday etc.

The online local newspapers and local social media has a fair bit, mostly regarding the six tracking at Bedford.

Judging by the media report linked below it has put the mayor in an awkward position as he had campaigned for the route to go through Bedford but seems to have been as taken by surprise as the nearby residents by the proposal to six track the section north of the station rather than use the existing slow lines (six tracking is much more destructive and the preferred option will result in significant demolition of homes (53 are down for certain demolition or are at risk of demolition with 44 more losing some garden/parking space).

A cynic might suggest this is being suggested so it can be dropped later and everyone can sigh with relief and nod it through. If so this is a huge error as I fear it will galvanise organised, determined and broad opposition which, once set on that path, won't easily be persuaded to go away. Up to now, opposition seems to have been little more than conspiracy theorists maundering on about secret plans for numerous night goods trains.

The proposal (one of two options) to close five stations in the Marston Vale in return for two of the remaining five stations in the vale plus Bedford St Johns getting an extra train per hour (the other two get an extra train with both options) isn't going to bring a lot of goodwill either.

Given the national opposition any railway or station closures results in these days, [preventing closure even of Breich, Denton and Reddish, with millions recently spent on it to avoid closing it the first after the closure proposal was withdrawn (which has seen numbers using it rise from 48 a year in 2016-7 to 2,550 a year in 2019-20) and weekly parliamentary trains serving the latter two stations avoid the political repercussions of closure] this seems a staggeringly inept thing to do (unless you are a treasury bean counter who actually wants to kill the whole thing off!).

Residents left 'reeling' ahead of next stage of East West rail consultation - Bedford Independent

Ahead of today's announcement of the next stage of the East West Rail (EWR) consultation, residents of the Poets Area...

www.bedfordindependent.co.uk

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Thank you. A very useful and interesting update.

Another update here:-

on YouTube.

Presumably they have been putting the Cross Beams in place this weekend?

 

[Cantab26]

Early days yet plus the consultation was released just before a major bank holiday weekend when media reports can expected to be lessened as people on holiday etc.

I would agree with this assessment.

Given bank holiday post I expect that a lot of the mass mailout consultation summary booklets will be landing on doormats over the next week as well.

 

[Ianno87]

Given the national opposition any railway or station closures results in these days, [preventing closure even of Breich, Denton and Reddish, with millions recently spent on it to avoid closing it the first after the closure proposal was withdrawn (which has seen numbers using it rise from 48 a year in 2016-7 to 2,550 a year in 2019-20) and weekly parliamentary trains serving the latter two stations avoid the political repercussions of closure] this seems a staggeringly inept thing to do (unless you are a treasury bean counter who actually wants to kill the whole thing off!).

Breich was a very effective consultation, and provided the justification necessary to accept the cost of rebuilding the station.

Same may be the case for the MV stations. Sometimes being deliberately provocative drives the ideal outcome in the end.

 

[21C101]

Breich was a very effective consultation, and provided the justification necessary to accept the cost of rebuilding the station.

Same may be the case for the MV stations. Sometimes being deliberately provocative drives the ideal outcome in the end.

Indeed it is a fairly standard procedure. Seen often in planning applications for house extensions where the moon on a stick is applied for in the hope of conceding the more egregious bits and getting the main bit through.

If taken too far it can backfire on you though

Although at Briech they came up with a cheaper solution, avoiding the cost of a footbridge, there is no doubt that it's reprieve was a political decision (and in terms of public finances the wrong decision) which came after a public outcry, despite the station only being used by three people a week at the time. It now has more services and is used by 2,550 a year (50 people a week).

In contrast Bow Brickhill is used by 41,340 in 2019-20. With EWR having been taken out of NRs hands, I do wonder whether those producing the consultation (who may perhaps be more used to producing new road consultations) may not have fully realised how incendiary any station closure is these days.

I've outlined an alternative in the post linked below that keeps all but the least used two stations (Aspley Guise and Kempston Hardwick) while eliminating the stopping service (in the latter case subject to Wixams Station being built on the Midland Main Line)

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/east-west-rail-ewr-5-stations-on-the-marston-vale.215862/page-2#post-5072774

 

[Ianno87]

In contrast Bow Brickhill is used by 41,340 in 2019-20. With EWR having been taken out of NRs hands, I do wonder whether those producing the consultation (who may perhaps be more used to producing new road consultations) may not have fully realised how incendiary any station closure is these days.

EWR will still have oodles of rail expertise in-house. Wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some NR secondees in there. It is a rail scheme after all.

I know we disagree on this, but I think this consultation is approaching this right.

In some respects this may not be much different to the closure of Angel Road to be replaced with (much better sited, equipped, better served and accessible) Meridian Water. That almost took place without anybody noticing - I'd hardly use the word 'incendiary' in that instance - people saw the bigger picture of an improved train service and station.

 

[21C101]

EWR will still have oodles of rail expertise in-house. Wouldn't be at all surprised if there are some NR secondees in there. It is a rail scheme after all.

I know we disagree on this, but I think this consultation is approaching this right.

In some respects this may not be much different to the closure of Angel Road to be replaced with (much better sited, equipped, better served and accessible) Meridian Water. That almost took place without anybody noticing - I'd hardly use the word 'incendiary' in that instance - people saw the bigger picture of an improved train service and station.

Angel Road was one in one out though and only 580m away.

There was a similar plan to close Cricklewood and replace it with Brent Cross South, and I believe they have had to drop closure of Cricklewood after widespread protest.

Anyway, as you allude to there is nothing more we can do than go round in circles in this debate. As to EWR I am sure you are right in regards to Engineers and Designers, perhaps not so much on the PR people.

However the BBRUA decide to respond in response to the Marston Vale stations I am sure it will be well thought out and argued. The Bedford widening issue will I suspect elicit a rather more confrontational and emotional response.

We shall have to wait and see.

 

[hwl]

As to EWR I am sure you are right in regards to Engineers and Designers, perhaps not so much on the PR people.

Some of the EWR PR staff have extensive rail experience and have previously worked with multiple commenters on this thread...

 

[Cantab26]

Some of the EWR PR staff have extensive rail experience and have previously worked with multiple commenters on this thread...

Indeed. There are also a number of other senior figures in the business with particular sectoral and local experience too, even if not ‘railway’ experience as such.

 

[Ianno87]

There was a similar plan to close Cricklewood and replace it with Brent Cross South, and I believe they have had to drop closure of Cricklewood after widespread protest.

"Widespread protest"? I know it wasn't locally too popular, but my hyperbole detector is sounding again. Once again demonstrating the benefit of effective local engagement.

Anyway, as you allude to there is nothing more we can do than go round in circles in this debate. As to EWR I am sure you are right in regards to Engineers and Designers, perhaps not so much on the PR people.

The quality, content and presentation of this consultation really, really suggests otherwise regarding the PR folk. It's very, very well/clearly written and presented (even if you disagree with the options). Don't shoot the messenger as they say. These options need to be presented for an effective consultation.

 

[21C101]

Some of the EWR PR staff have extensive rail experience and have previously worked with multiple commenters on this thread...

I've suspected for a while (talking generally, not about the EWR project) that one or two regular posters here (I won't name names) are posting, not off their own back, but as part of their duties with the "PR" department of their employer.

It is an increasingly common "news mangement" strategy, although more usually on social media rather than relatively obscure forums.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 5 Apr 2021 ==

"Widespread protest"? I know it wasn't locally too popular, but my hyperbole detector is sounding again. Once again demonstrating the benefit of effective local engagement.

Trying to close the first Mayor of (Greater) London's local station was always going to be quite a challenge. A popcorn occasion for bystanders, not so much fun for those involved.

 

[Ianno87]

I've suspected for a while (talking generally, not about the EWR project) that one or two regular posters here (I won't name names) are posting, not off their own back, but as part of their duties with the "PR" department of their employer.

Given that @21C101 is obviously not referring to me (seeing as I don't even come close to fitting what he/she describes), I'll leave others to continue the conversation as they see fit, and respond accordingly.

 

[21C101]

Given that @21C101 is obviously not referring to me (seeing as I don't even come close to fitting what he/she describes), I'll leave others to continue the conversation as they see fit.

Correct, I'm not referring to you or the other chap I've been debating EWR with this weekend. I'm basing the assertion on having read posts here for a number of years, mostly as a "lurker").

With the rise of online media, stopping information getting out the wrong way in the way it was done in old days (the security around the draft Beeching report was legendary) is not feasible. I also recall the grief the original (never built) CTRL proposals through South London caused BR staff in the 80's, when the proposals were made public.

Rather than campaign on social media, which didn't exist, the disgruntled did things like phoning the switchboard and claiming an explosive device had been planted in the main office; giving hundreds of people an unexpected afternoon off while the place was searched (phones were largely anonymous in those days, many still off mechanical exchanges, so no caller line identification, unless the security services were already on the case and tapping someone).

These days the strategy is (somewhat understandlably) to rebut online, and try and stop hares running. The most obvious place you get it is in regarding companies that provide consumer services like electricity or broadband.

 

[yorkie]

I am not really sure what @21C101's point is but...

....rather than relatively obscure forums.....

It is certainly true that we have a lot of people who work within or for the rail industry on what I would describe as this specialist forum; it is therefore not surprising if well informed people are posting in this thread, and I think it's great that we have access to their specialist knowledge

 

[21C101]

I am not really sure what @21C101's point is but...

It is certainly true that we have a lot of people who work within or for the rail industry on what I would describe as this specialist forum; it is therefore not surprising if well informed people are posting in this thread, and I think it's great that we have access to their specialist knowledge

I meant obscure in the general picture of things (comparing to things like Twitter or digital spy). Specialist is probably a better way of putting it though.

 

[Tobbes]

I am not really sure what @21C101's point is but...

It is certainly true that we have a lot of people who work within or for the rail industry on what I would describe as this specialist forum; it is therefore not surprising if well informed people are posting in this thread, and I think it's great that we have access to their specialist knowledge

And I'm profoundly grateful to them, given some of the vitriol they've copped for their trouble.

 

[Mikey C]

"Widespread protest"? I know it wasn't locally too popular, but my hyperbole detector is sounding again. Once again demonstrating the benefit of effective local engagement.

But then there was never a serious proposal to close Cricklewood station. If there had been, there would have been wider protests

And Cricklewood/Brent Cross West is a completely different scenario to Angel Road/Meridian Water anyway, as the latter was relocating a desolate station to be nearer houses and activity, whereas Cricklewood station is already located in a bustling area, and the NEW station is in the (currently) quieter area.

Around 1m people a year use Cricklewood station, which isn't that much less than Bletchley. By contrast the passenger numbers at Fenny Stratford are around 26,000! That's lower than the numbers Angel Road got...

 

[alexx]

I appreciate this is going to be dangerously on-topic, so I can only apologise in advance, but here's a video I found (via a local FB group) of some of the EWR work going on around the Bicester/Launton area.

 

[Trainee9]

Thank you. A very useful and interesting update.

Another update here:-

on YouTube.

A really interesting video. It shows a lot of what one can only glimpse from ground level.

 

[alexx]

And another recent one from Bicester and Launton

 

[Bald Rick]

Some of the EWR PR staff have extensive rail experience and have previously worked with multiple commenters on this thread...

Indeed! Say hello

 

[Neen Sollars]

There was me, aged 77, looking at the lovely pictures upthread of actual diggers north of Bicester, and thinking I might live to see trains Oxford to Bletchley. And now it turns out that was all (cough) speculation, and it won't happen unless they can rebuild Oxford station and turn (most of) the Beckley Street car park into turnback sidings.

N43 Take a look at this again if not already viewed.

Oxford to Bletchley, and MK is happening and not dependent on any more changes at Oxford. Good stretch of double track from Gavray Junction towards Jarvis Lane already laid during Phase 1. Clear from these drone shots that terram and ballast already being laid. Edit: Looks like stacked sleepers have been lifted from east of the stop blocks. However not long before track laid in Phase 2?

 

[richieb1971]

Ooh, someone said tracks to be laid soon. I'd quite happily sit for a couple of hours watching it being laid.

I could try and google it but will probably get a 1000 videos of overseas doing it. But how does Network rail/contractors lay track where none is pre existing in 2021?

Thanks.

 

[swt_passenger]

Ooh, someone said tracks to be laid soon. I'd quite happily sit for a couple of hours watching it being laid.

I could try and google it but will probably get a 1000 videos of overseas doing it. But how does Network rail/contractors lay track where none is pre existing in 2021?

Thanks.

Three ways come to mind.

One is the Balfour Beatty new track construction machine, which has the long welded rail strings dragged out in front of where it’s working then comes along and adds the sleepers, travelling on the newly completed installation behind it. Working off the end of the existing tracks from the Bicester end would be quite straightforward:

Then the firm who did the borders railway operated the other way round. They accurately laid the sleepers down the formation, then pushed long welded rail into position along it.

But they can also just simply lay the sleepers, then pull rail along and put it into place using road rail machines.

 

[DavidGrain]

Three ways come to mind.

One is the Balfour Beatty new track construction machine, which has the long welded rail strings dragged out in front of where it’s working then comes along and adds the sleepers, travelling on the newly completed installation behind it. Working off the end of the existing tracks from the Bicester end would be quite straightforward:

Then the firm who did the borders railway operated the other way round. They accurately laid the sleepers down the formation, then pushed long welded rail into position along it.

But they can also just simply lay the sleepers, then pull rail along and put it into place using road rail machines.

Thanks for that information. I was wondering as I have seen Network Rail videos of track laying from an adjacent track but never of track laying when there is not an existing track alongside.

 

[camflyer]

More on why there won't be a northern approach to Cambridge

Why East West Rail Company says it is rejecting a northern route into Cambridge

It has released further explanation of why it favours a southern route in Cambridge South.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

Hopefully that will settle the matter - although we all know it won't

 

[ABB125]

More on why there won't be a northern approach to Cambridge

Why East West Rail Company says it is rejecting a northern route into Cambridge

It has released further explanation of why it favours a southern route in Cambridge South.

www.cambridgeindependent.co.uk

Hopefully that will settle the matter - although we all know it won't

The comments in that article are, ummm, "interesting"! It appears that some readers are much more knowledgeable about building railways that the professionals, who quite clearly are absolute idiots who couldn't run a bath. Right......

Apparently, the southern approach requires a 10m high embankment about 10 miles long - really? I must admit I haven't fully read all the consultation documentation (I'm waiting for my nice shiny printed copies to arrive!), but I haven't seen anything about this before.

(There is one comment that I fully agree with though: why does a railway built across a floodplain (northern approach) require an embankment, but thousands of houses being built on the same floodplain are just fine without any flood protection? Answers on a postcard!)

 

[bspahh]

why does a railway built across a floodplain (northern approach) require an embankment, but thousands of houses being built on the same floodplain are just fine without any flood protection?

A railway needs an embankment to get over the A14. Ten years ago, you might have been able to get the A14 to go over the railway. I can't see politicians approving the road works to do that now.

 

[ABB125]

A railway needs an embankment to get over the A14. Ten years ago, you might have been able to get the A14 to go over the railway. I can't see politicians approving the road works to do that now.

Fair point, I hadn't thought of that!

(Although the general point still stands!)

 

[Cantab26]

(There is one comment that I fully agree with though: why does a railway built across a floodplain (northern approach) require an embankment, but thousands of houses being built on the same floodplain are just fine without any flood protection? Answers on a postcard!)

Could it be because the houses are not being built on the floodplain?

The image below is an extract from the Environment Agency flood risk map. The dark and light blue areas represent flood zones 3 and 2 respectively (in popular parlance, ‘floodplain’).

The dark blue shading with white diagonal stripes denotes areas benefitting from flood defences.

The ‘thousands of houses at Northstowe’ would almost all be in the white area north, east and southeast of Longstanton which is not an area with likelihood of flooding, with a very small quantity located on the area benefitting from flood defences to the northeast of Longstanton.

The yellow marker shows roughly where the new station would be with the railway (northern approach) running from the southwest to the northeast right across the extensive area of floodplain.

There is a further issue in that (unlike houses) building a long embankment across a floodplain traps flood water, often exacerbates flood risk nearby or further upstream and can have serious effects on water flow and ecology downstream. This requires significant infrastructure interventions such as drainage and viaducts in order to avoid and mitigate these impacts.

i.e. mucho expensive


== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Apr 2021 ==

A railway needs an embankment to get over the A14. Ten years ago, you might have been able to get the A14 to go over the railway. I can't see politicians approving the road works to do that now.

And must also get over the guided busway near Oakington as well!