Odd formations

[CarrotPie]

There was a rumour last year that 377442 had gained an additional carriage - although I seem to recall it was sighted as a three-car shortly afterwards. Does anyone know whether it's intended to keep 377442 permanently as a 3-car or if it's hoped to restore it to 4-car at some point -and where would the 4th car come from?

I think the former. However, the Little Book of Numbers lists 78842 as a spare, stored at Wolverton.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2021 ==

4th car is under repair/rebuild isn’t it?

What, for four years?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

What, for four years?

Full assessment, insurance legalities, the Covid-19 pandemic and the time taken for actual rebuild (with social distancing in place) - 4 years probably doesn't surprise me

 

[delt1c]

Back in the 1980s, the old "Southern" were very good at mix 'n matching vehicles and units.

For example, there was a "7700" 4 Vep and a "5800" Class 455 whilst accident damaged vehicles were undergoing repair.

During the EPB facelifting program in the 1980s, pairs of 2 SAP motor coaches were reformed with 4 SUB trailers to form "new" 4 EPB units which were given new unit numbers

There was a "7300" which from memory, was a prototype "facelifted" 4 CIG along with a "7299" before renumbering in the "17xx" series

Are you saying a set actually operated with mixed VEP and 455 vehicles in one unit? Never heard of this before but would love to a picture of this.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are you saying a set actually operated with mixed VEP and 455 vehicles in one unit? Never heard of this before but would love to a picture of this.

No, he's saying there was a VEP numbered 7700 and a 455 numbered 5800. Both were "scratch" units created from spare and undamaged vehicles. They weren't mixed together.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Are you saying a set actually operated with mixed VEP and 455 vehicles in one unit? Never heard of this before but would love to a picture of this.

No, that is not what I said...

From memory, the hybrid 7700 had a mix of CIG and VEP vehicles whilst 5800 ran as a 3-car. There was probably more than one 5800 (455 unit)

 

[Peter Mugridge]

There was probably more than one 5800 (455 unit)

From memory, there were two, but a few years apart. At least one of them ran in service for a while as a 3 car unit, didn't it?

 

[Roger B]

From memory, there were two, but a few years apart. At least one of them ran in service for a while as a 3 car unit, didn't it?

According to my database the 5800s were 77607, 62723 & 77634 which ran from '90 to '91, and 77631, 62736 & 77623 which ran from '91 to '93. I wasn't fortunate enough to see either of them, despite a few long spells at Clapham Junction and London Bridge on a number of occasions. I came to the conclusion that neither was in regular service - perhaps only called into service at times of low availability of other rolling stock?

 

[delt1c]

No, that is not what I said...

From memory, the hybrid 7700 had a mix of CIG and VEP vehicles whilst 5800 ran as a 3-car. There was probably more than one 5800 (455 unit)

Misunderstood your post

 

[Islineclear3_1]

From memory, there were two, but a few years apart. At least one of them ran in service for a while as a 3 car unit, didn't it?

According to my database the 5800s were 77607, 62723 & 77634 which ran from '90 to '91, and 77631, 62736 & 77623 which ran from '91 to '93. I wasn't fortunate enough to see either of them, despite a few long spells at Clapham Junction and London Bridge on a number of occasions. I came to the conclusion that neither was in regular service - perhaps only called into service at times of low availability of other rolling stock?

I remember seeing one of them at Selhurst depot and a vague recollection of one in service. Whether it was the same one twice or not, I can't remember. I may just have to have a look at some of my old pics in the shed... that I will get round to scanning in my retirement...

 

[gka472l]

Whilst it wouldn't look out of the ordinary at first glance, there was a mixed 507/508 formation on Merseyrail quite a long way back....from memory using cars from 507023 & 508130. Also there was a 4 car 508 formation trialled on Merseyrail, back in the 1980's some time, although whether it was used in passenger service, I have no idea.....cars from 508101 and possibly 508119 or 508134 were used.

HTH

 

[Strathclyder]

This may not strictly fit within the thread parameters set by the OP, but here goes...

Back in BR days, a SPTE Orange/Black Class 303 Blue Train (303072) ran about for a while with a BR Blue/Grey driving trailer as a replacement for one of own after it suffered derailment damage in early 1985. Temporary 303 formations following collisions/fires etc. were fairly common (as were permanent re-formations after serious accidents/fires), but, as far as can be ascertained, this was the only time a multi-coloured 303 ran about for any significant length of time outwith preservation.


(303072 - Kelvin Viaduct - April 1985. Copyright - Scotrail.co.uk's Deepol01)

 

[172007]

172338 and 172333 both have each others 50 vehicles. These vehicles had fires and when back in traffic it was found swapping them fitted the maintenance / exam cycle better. They had been swapped to cobble together 1 working unit anyhow before whilst repairs where underway.

 

[Strathclyder]

Another odd formed Class 303 set was 303043 in it's last few years (during the National Express era). Following the withdrawal/scrapping of one of it's driving trailers, it would gain one from withdrawn set 303056 (the rest of that set being destroyed in a arson attack) in 2000. This would be unremarkable, were it not for the fact that the vehicle salvaged from 303056 retained the classes' original Widney sliding windows as opposed to the Beclawat hopper windows the refurbished sets had (056 was one of 4 303s to retain the original sliding windows post-refurb; these were 303051/055-056/085). As a final mark of it's oddball status, the vehicle from 056 post-reformation would have a shortened TOPS number on it's cab end.

Here is hybrid set 043 departing Gourock in July 2001 (from the Donald Anderson YT channel), not long before the set was withdrawn as part of the classes' general rundown leading up to December 2002.

 

[O L Leigh]

I believe that this happens a lot more than is generally observed, except where new temporary unit numbers are issued. As such, this is probably slightly off-topic, but almost exactly 10 years ago to the day I posted the following in this thread based on studying the fleet lists and individual vehicle numbering.

I know for a fact that there are at least two hybrid Cl317s (502 and 511) and potentially as many as four or five, and at least two hybrid Cl315s. The problem is that these reformations are not obvious.

Have dug a little further and found 12 Cl317 hybrids. In addition to 502 and 511 which swapped vehicles, other units that have swapped vehicles are 501 and 883, 344 and 887 (clearly prior to the fleet being split into two), 652 and 654, 656 and 657, and finally 666 and 667. Either that or whoever compiles the fleet lists for The Junction is bad at copying stuff out.

 

[43074]

There was a class 170 hybrid about 15 years ago of one vehicle from 170101 and another from 170207 which lasted for a few months on Anglia.

Central Trains formed a 153+156 hybrid after one end of 156409 struck a tractor near Sleaford in 2002, although it wasn't that unusual for 153s to be used to form hybrid units at the time, Arriva Trains Northern had one for a similar reason.

 

[D6975]

57212 was paired almost exclusively with 150121 as 150921,whilst 57209 generally ran with 150127 as 150927.

Not so. 150925 and 150926 were the location of the two spares for a long time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2021 ==

Many moons ago we briefly had a very odd unit working off Bath Road. A 3 car unit had one DMS completely dead. A route learner ex bubble car was attached to it (locked up obviously) to create a viable unit. It looked very odd as the route learner was in that drab brown livery that 2 of them used to carry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2021 ==

Class 175 has as a result of various crashes and accidents become a right mess. The worst one is 175004 which doesn't contain any of its correct vehicles, being formed of the outer 2/3 of 175109. 175109 only has its middle car, the two end cars being one each from 175004 and 175005.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Not so. 150925 and 150926 were the location of the two spares for a long time.

57209/212 did briefly work with 150125/126 before moving away but from experience they were with 150121/127 most of the time. They were used on the old 57/67 diagrams for a while after the LHS ended.

 

[D6975]

57209/212 did briefly work with 150125/126 before moving away but from experience they were with 150121/127 most of the time. They were used on the old 57/67 diagrams for a while after the LHS ended.

Again, not so. I rode in 150926 in the Summer of 2015 and in the early Autumn of 2017, so 150926 existed for well over 2 years.

 

[CW2]

Back in the 1970s, Old Oak Common had an allocation of 3 or 4 Met Camm DMU trailers, which were inserted into the Pressed Steel 3-car sets (class 117) to make 4-cars. These were often used on weekend excursions, with one extra Met Camm trailer added to one of 3 Pressed Steel sets to make a 10-car formation.

More recently Eurostar had extra power car 3999, which ran in place of any power car under repairs.

 

[animationmilo]

Not so. 150925 and 150926 were the location of the two spares for a long time.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2021 ==

Many moons ago we briefly had a very odd unit working off Bath Road. A 3 car unit had one DMS completely dead. A route learner ex bubble car was attached to it (locked up obviously) to create a viable unit. It looked very odd as the route learner was in that drab brown livery that 2 of them used to carry.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2021 ==

Class 175 has as a result of various crashes and accidents become a right mess. The worst one is 175004 which doesn't contain any of its correct vehicles, being formed of the outer 2/3 of 175109. 175109 only has its middle car, the two end cars being one each from 175004 and 175005.

All the odd 175 formations
175004 50759 79759 - 109

175005 - 50705 79751 - 005/101 - Formed of 1 Car from 005 and 1 Car from 101

175006 - 50706 50765 - 006/115

175101 - 50751 56751 79704 - 101/004 - Has 2 of 101 and the other end of 004

175109 - 50704 56759 79705 - 004/005

175115 - 79706 56765 79765 - 006/115

 

[greatvoyager]

All the odd 175 formations
175004 50759 79759 - 109

175005 - 50705 79751 - 005/101 - Formed of 1 Car from 005 and 1 Car from 101

175006 - 50706 50765 - 006/115

175101 - 50751 56751 79704 - 101/004 - Has 2 of 101 and the other end of 004

175109 - 50704 56759 79705 - 004/005

175115 - 79706 56765 79765 - 006/115

Weird how 175109 carried number 175004.

 

[PHILIPE]

Weird how 175109 carried number 175004.

Due to putting combinations of good/undamaged vehicles together to form as many good sets as possible.

 

[greatvoyager]

Due to putting combinations of good/undamaged vehicles together to form as many good sets as possible.

Ah okay... were all of the mentioned formations concurrent?

 

[Neptune]

I seem to remember that sometime in the early-mid 'nineties one car from 156 498 (NL) was running with one car from 156 402 (NC) as a result of 498 colliding with a an RES class 47 at Leeds West Junction and 402 being involved in a level crossing incident somewhere in East Anglia. The temporary hybrid unit was working on NL diagrams, including the Settle-Carlisle line - on which I drove it on at least one occasion. The car from 402 was branded "Sprinter" and that from 498 "Super Sprinter".

156498 collided with 91019. It was 156483 which collided with the RES 47 (562?).

156468 and 490 had their 57xxx cars coupled for a while whilst their 52xxx cars were repaired after the Ais Gill crash. Mainly restricted to the Donny - Adwick shuttles.

158842 & 843 were reformed into a 3 car unit (158943) for a while. 842 had a vehicle away for derailment damage repairs. I worked it on a Leeds - Nottingham which made a change from the usual 2 cars.

 

[greatvoyager]

There was also a hybrid 7-car class 222 that was made up of MML and EMT liveried vehicles from 222002 and 222013.

 

[GW4117]

Just checking out the re-formed Bristol 158s, can anyone confirm the three car units in service, and that the following cars are unallocated -

52761
52764
52768
52771
52776
52778

Many thanks..

 

[PHILIPE]

Just checking out the re-formed Bristol 158s, can anyone confirm the three car units in service, and that the following cars are unallocated -

52761
52764
52768
52771
52776
52778

Many thanks..

These are the GWR 158 formations

3-car formations:
158798 (52798/57798+58715)
158950 (52761/57761+57751)
158951 (52764/57764+52751)
158956 (52768/57768+57748)
158957 (52771/57771+52748)
158958 (52776/57776+57746)
158959 (52778/57778+52746)

2-car formations
158745 (52745+57745)
158747 (52747+57747)
158749 (52749+57749)
158750 (52750+57750)
158760 (52760+57760)
158762 (52762+57762)
158763 (52763+57763)
158765 (52765+57765)
158766 (52766+57766)
158767 (52767+57767)
158769 (52769+57769)

158798 is a true three car, the other ones formed by splitting 2 Car Sets. There are no unallocated cars and some are now allocated to Exeter with the remainder planned to follow

 

[GW4117]

These are the GWR 158 formations

3-car formations:
158798 (52798/57798+58715)
158950 (52761/57761+57751)
158951 (52764/57764+52751)
158956 (52768/57768+57748)
158957 (52771/57771+52748)
158958 (52776/57776+57746)
158959 (52778/57778+52746)

2-car formations
158745 (52745+57745)
158747 (52747+57747)
158749 (52749+57749)
158750 (52750+57750)
158760 (52760+57760)
158762 (52762+57762)
158763 (52763+57763)
158765 (52765+57765)
158766 (52766+57766)
158767 (52767+57767)
158769 (52769+57769)

158798 is a true three car, the other ones formed by splitting 2 Car Sets. There are no unallocated cars and some are now allocated to Exeter with the remainder planned to follow

That's brilliant, thanks for the update.
It's been ages since I checked these out, so looking forward to a visit to see some in the next few weeks.
Much appreciated, GW.

 

[Alfie1014]

London, Tilbury and Southend unit 302 244 was unusual as one end had a straight front and the other a sloping front. The sloped front driving trailer was in fact coach 77164 from a class 504 Manchester - Bury unit, the result of the LTS unit sustaining collision damage.

Picture here of the unit at Leigh on Sea around 1980.

 

[delt1c]

Picture here of the unit at Leigh on Sea around 1980. View attachment 101951

If my memory serves me correct ( it often doesn’t) i believe it was due to terrorist bomb damage.