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Buying a MK3 carriage

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FirstclassHST

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Hi guys,

just had a thought and wanted to share it, if I were to buy a mk3 first class carriage from a scrapper ... would it be legal, around how much would it cost and could you buy the carriage and as the scrapper to keep it and just visit it?

Feel free to share your thought below! :)
 
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JonathanH

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Hi guys,

just had a thought and wanted to share it, if I were to buy a mk3 first class carriage from a scrapper ... would it be legal, around how much would it cost and could you buy the carriage and as the scrapper to keep it and just visit it?

Feel free to share your thought below! :)
The issue probably isn't buying the carriage from the rolling stock company, it is appearing credible, being able to pay for transport and having somewhere legal to put it, then maintaining it.

You can't 'just visit it' as the person owning the land it sits on will want rent paid for the use of that land. The scrapyard isn't the right place to leave it either.

Whether you can buy it from the scrapyard will depend on the agreement between the previous owner and the scrapyard regarding resale.

If someone wants to see rolling stock survive, the best thing to do is donate money to a preserved railway that intends using that stock. There are a sufficient number of Mark 3s already preserved - eg at the Mid-Norfolk Railway and the Northampton & Lamport Railway - which will need money and contributions to be maintained
 
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JonathanH

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I was thinking ethier hire somewhere with some length of tracks to keep it or ask the scrappers to keep it and pay for the rent
A scrapyard does not visitors getting in the way of their primary activity (and probably can't within the terms of their health and safety policy). They just don't have the space.

The only possibility I can think of would be a self-storage location. How big is your garden?

Look at this example of someone who has bought a Mark 3 carriage and what they are having to do with it.

Project 42002 is centred around an ex GWR HST trailer, currently numbered 42356. This coach was destined for scrapping until it was realised what it actually is; this coach was 12003 as part of the Prototype HST set. It was later renumbered 42002, before eventually becoming 42356. Due to it being historically important discussions took place with Angel Trains and Arlington Fleet Services who were both sympathetic, the scrapping was cancelled and the vehicle is now in the care of Northumbria Rail. The plan now is to turn the clock back on this vehicle, refitting it with items that are closer to the original layout; though it will not revert to as built. The carriage last ran with GWR as a TSD* - Trailer, Standard class with Disabled access fitted with high density seating. This layout does not work well for leisure / family travel, so we had planned to change the layout anyway... ... by good fortune some other vehicles destined for scrap at Eastleigh Works (Class 317/5) have IC70 style seating as the coach would have had originally. A deal was struck with Arlington Fleet Group and we now have a small number of these which will be fitted. We are on the lookout for more to be able to completely refit. Your donations will help pay for the materials and equipment required to complete this part of the project. I will try to post updates, though as some of you are aware we had an issue with this fundraiser previously and unfortunately it was unintentionally removed, and some of the work has already been done.
Note the fundraiser.
 

mrgreen

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Could you open a petting zoo for rolling stock? Punters would pay to fondle their favourites, and maybe feed them a can or two of diesel (and coolant for the HSTs).
 

JonathanH

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Could you open a petting zoo for rolling stock? Punters would pay to fondle their favourites, and maybe feed them a can or two of diesel (and coolant for the HSTs).
A museum of rolling stock seats might potentially have some interest. Potentially as a cafe at a preserved railway.
 

FirstclassHST

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A scrapyard does not visitors getting in the way of their primary activity (and probably can't within the terms of their health and safety policy). They just don't have the space.

The only possibility I can think of would be a self-storage location. How big is your garden?

Look at this example of someone who has bought a Mark 3 carriage and what they are having to do with it.


Note the fundraiser.
That’s actually a great idea and do you think it would be possible to ask someone like Arlington to keep the carriage at a monthly rent cost?

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A museum of rolling stock seats might potentially have some interest. Potentially as a cafe at a preserved railway.
That is true
 

Bletchleyite

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A not unusual thing to do is to buy a piece of land, ideally near a railway, and convert the coach into a static caravan type arrangement, let out as a holiday let. Quite a few of these around using Mk1s though I see no particular reason you couldn't do it with a Mk3 (better insulation and double glazing may for example prove an advantage). Would need all relevant planning consents etc, and would be a rather expensive undertaking.
 

JonathanH

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That’s actually a great idea and do you think it would be possible to ask someone like Arlington to keep the carriage at a monthly rent cost?
Why though? What use is it to you? You'd be better off paying to travel on the Midland Pullman a few times a year which has essentially 'preserved' GWR first class HST carriages.


WELCOME ABOARD
We are honoured to present our own refurbished high speed train as a faithful revival offering tours throughout Britain
 

FirstclassHST

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A not unusual thing to do is to buy a piece of land, ideally near a railway, and convert the coach into a static caravan type arrangement, let out as a holiday let. Quite a few of these around using Mk1s though I see no particular reason you couldn't do it with a Mk3 (better insulation and double glazing may for example prove an advantage). Would need all relevant planning consents etc, and would be a rather expensive undertaking.
That’s a great idea too!

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Why though? What use is it to you? You'd be better off paying to travel on the Midland Pullman a few times a year which has essentially 'preserved' GWR first class HST carriages.

You know everyone has a dream and it’s one of my dreams to own one

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The only possibility I can think of would be a self-storage location. How big is your garden?

Look at this example of someone who has bought a Mark 3 carriage and what they are having to do with it.


Note the fundraiser.
Anyone wants to estimate how much it would have costed this person to buy and bring the carriage to Arlington?
 

JonathanH

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You know everyone has a dream and it’s one of my dreams to own one
To be fair to you, I'd love to have the front end of a train or a bus built on to my garage and used as a shed but I know I don't have the credibility or contacts to start the process of negotiation to actually do that, and it wouldn't be possible to get a crane down my road to put it into place.

Unfortunately, some dreams are best left to other people.

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Anyone wants to estimate how much it would have costed this person to buy and bring the carriage to Arlington?
Why don't you contact them, make a donation to their cause, and get into discussions about what the reality of their project actually entails.
 

FirstclassHST

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To be fair to you, I'd love to have the front end of a train or a bus built on to my garage and used as a shed but I know I don't have the credibility or contacts to start the process of negotiation to actually do that, and it wouldn't be possible to get a crane down my road to put it into place.

Unfortunately, some dreams are best left to other people.

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Why don't you contact them, make a donation to their cause, and get into discussions about what the reality of their project actually entails.
That’s a great idea and also it’s never impossible to achieve a dream no matter how big or small it might be if you do the right research and have the budget you will make it possible I bet you! :)
 

JonathanH

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That’s a great idea and also it’s never impossible to achieve a dream no matter how big or small it might be if you do the right research and have the budget you will make it possible I bet you! :)
You might also want to look here at what happens when you buy the front end of a train and don't have the time to keep it clean and well maintained.

The Cab Yard is a unique collection of old locomotive driving cabs and other large peaces of coaching stock and London underground stock. What started as a childhood interest in railways and trainspotting is developing into an interesting collection of memorabilia from the 1930s to today.

The Cab Yard is made of a storage area for cabs and fully equip workshop for carry out the restoration of the cabs.

Most of the collection has found its way to us from scrap yards across the country and are in need of a great deal of restoration work. In order to complete this work spare cab components are being collected from eBay, other preservation groups and scrap yards. We are confident of being able to restore all of the cabs in the collection.

Visitors are always welcome at The Cab Yard, either for a good rummage around or to help restore the cabs. All you have to do is contact us and we will open the gates for a visit.
This website actually describes the process the cab owners went through to purchase their own bits of train. It is a pretty interesting read, especially this page.

then followed a number of unsuccessful homes over the next few years. It wasn’t easy finding a safe place to keep a 5te chunk of train.
Anyone wanting to help restore the cabs are welcome, or it you would like your own cab and keep it at The Cab Yard, that’s possible too.
 
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FirstclassHST

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You might also want to look here at what happens when you buy the front end of a train and don't have the time to keep it clean and well maintained.


This website actually describes the process the cab owners went through to purchase their own bits of train.
Thanks a lot :)

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Thanks a lot :)
If anyone else has any suggestions feel free to comment!
 

Bald Rick

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A not unusual thing to do is to buy a piece of land, ideally near a railway, and convert the coach into a static caravan type arrangement, let out as a holiday let. Quite a few of these around using Mk1s though I see no particular reason you couldn't do it with a Mk3 (better insulation and double glazing may for example prove an advantage). Would need all relevant planning consents etc, and would be a rather expensive undertaking.

You’d need some pretty heavy duty ventilation and air conditioning kit as well, otherwise it will go mouldy very quickly!
 

43096

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You’d need some pretty heavy duty ventilation and air conditioning kit as well, otherwise it will go mouldy very quickly!
At least the HST vehicles come with 415V three-phase electrics i.e. industrial standard.

I'm not sure the OP really knows what he's letting himself in for - first off wants a seat, now an entire coach. :rolleyes:
 

Bevan Price

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If you had a small farm, you could perhaps use a coach body for something like a hen house -- until corrosion got too bad and it fell apart.
 

FirstclassHST

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At least the HST vehicles come with 415V three-phase electrics i.e. industrial standard.

I'm not sure the OP really knows what he's letting himself in for - first off wants a seat, now an entire coach. :rolleyes:
Lol XD it’s a speculative idea thats why I posted this in the forum it’s a long term aim though :)
 

Journeyman

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You’d need some pretty heavy duty ventilation and air conditioning kit as well, otherwise it will go mouldy very quickly!
My local heritage railway has a Mark 3 Sleeper in storage pending display. It has dehumidifiers on board running 24/7, and they produce insane quantities of water.
 

FirstclassHST

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My local heritage railway has a Mark 3 Sleeper in storage pending display. It has dehumidifiers on board running 24/7, and they produce insane quantities of water.
Definitely if anyone ever does this in life you would need a lot of planning and money
 

NoRoute

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Given the costs involved I think you'd want to get the carriages used for something, earning some money. I've seen them used as part of a restaurant and for a cafe, which I think works kind of well because it adds a degree of interest or novelty to eating out, and the layout is workable.
 

FirstclassHST

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Given the costs involved I think you'd want to get the carriages used for something, earning some money. I've seen them used as part of a restaurant and for a cafe, which I think works kind of well because it adds a degree of interest or novelty to eating out, and the layout is workable.
That is true it could be a nice additional income too
 

JonathanH

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Given the costs involved I think you'd want to get the carriages used for something, earning some money. I've seen them used as part of a restaurant and for a cafe, which I think works kind of well because it adds a degree of interest or novelty to eating out, and the layout is workable.
Indeed, that is what these people have planned. More carriages for the original poster to visit at their leisure.
Thai restaurant planned for 40-year-old British Rail carriages in Pitlochry in restored original livery

Plans have been lodged to convert 40-year-old first class train carriages into a Thai restaurant beside Pitlochry station which will be restored to their original 1980 British Rail orange interior decor.

By Alastair Dalton
Friday, 29th January 2021, 4:45 pm
Updated
Saturday, 30th January 2021, 11:07 pm

Pharmaceuticals executive Fergus McCalIum and his Thai beautician wife Isara have bought two former InterCity 125 coaches, which continued to be operated by Great Western Railway in south west England until a few years ago.

They are of the same type and vintage as the carriages which ScotRail has refurbished as Inter7City trains which run through Pitlochry between Edinburgh, Glasgow and Inverness – feet away from the McCallums’ planned venture.

Unlike older carriages which have been converted into cafes and restaurants in Dufftown, Glenfinnan and Grantown-on-Spey, the McCallums plan to restore their coaches to original decor from a more modern era.

The carriages have already been repainted in British Rail blue and white.

They have submitted a planning application for approval by Perth and Kinross Council, which includes re-laying a section of track for the carriages to stand on.

The Pitlochry couple have already had their carriages, which were built in 1977-79, repainted in their original British Rail blue and white external livery by a specialist firm.

They have launched a company, The Wee Choo Choo, with their 18-year-old daughter Mia, for the 60-seat restaurant, which they hope to open by June.

If permission is granted, it would be sited in a former rail marshalling yard which is now a car park to the north of the station.

Mr McCallum is also considering developing a business to convert other old railway carriages into restaurants, accommodation and industrial units.

He told The Scotsman: “I have a very strong belief that such beautiful objects made in Britain in the 1970s to a standard of construction that would not shame a Dreadnought battleship should not be turned into a pile of waste.

"They are a gorgeous first class dining car and a first class carriage upholstered in leather with a fantastic kitchen and servery.

“We are restoring the carriages to the 1980s glory of British Rail in the correct landscape and creating jobs in a town that’s struggling at the moment with Covid closures.

"The location is bang next to the railway in a conservation zone, hence the huge effort we are making around provenance with genuine carriages in genuine colours in a former siding."

Mr McCallum said his wife and their daughter were joint directors of the project.

He said: "They fell in love with Pitlochry four years ago when we drove through it after moving back to Scotland from Asia.

“They rented a closed-down clothes shop and opened a Thai-themed beauticians.

“Now that it’s temporarily shut due to Covid, they have thrown their efforts into opening a Thai restaurant in a train.

“They really want to own a Thai restaurant, but they thought I had lost my mind when I suggested a train.”

Train leasing firm Porterbrook, which sold the carriages to the McCallums, said they had been much loved.

Its spokesperson said: “We are always pleased to hear from individuals or groups with ideas on how to find a sustainable new use for retired railway vehicles.

"These carriages have always been very popular in passenger service and it is wonderful to see some of the creative ideas that will enable them to continue serving the community in a different role.”
 

NoRoute

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Yes, may be look for a dining car. Though if using it as a cafe or restaurant then something a bit older with some warmth and character is better, avoid modern utilitarian.

 

43096

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Indeed, that is what these people have planned. More carriages for the original poster to visit at their leisure.
A much better idea.

We can do without random people with an “idea” pestering people in the industry to buy random seats/vehicles, frankly. If you have a serious plan, have done some research, have funding and can talk reasonably and professionally to people then carry on. Time wasters please just stop - all you do is “poison the well” with the people in the industry who have to deal with it for those who do have the credibility. That doesn’t help anyone.
 

FirstclassHST

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A much better idea.

We can do without random people with an “idea” pestering people in the industry to buy random seats/vehicles, frankly. If you have a serious plan, have done some research, have funding and can talk reasonably and professionally to people then carry on. Time wasters please just stop - all you do is “poison the well” with the people in the industry who have to deal with it for those who do have the credibility. That doesn’t help anyone.
I totally understand where your coming from and just want you to know this is a speculative ideas sub form where there are thousands of wild ideas lol. But on a serious note i am interested in the possibility of maybe turning a carriage into a restaurant or bnb any suggestions ?

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Yes, may be look for a dining car. Though if using it as a cafe or restaurant then something a bit older with some warmth and character is better, avoid modern utilitarian.

Your totally right that’s a great idea

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Indeed, that is what these people have planned. More carriages for the original poster to visit at their leisure.
It could generate extra income as well which could then compensate for the high costs
 
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