Vaccine Passports/Permanent restrictions

[bspahh]

We have a government for whom "long term" means the elections on May 6th. They like discussions of vaccine passports, as it stops the newspaper columnists from discussing the economy.

I think there is little chance of widespread adoption of a vaccine passport until all adults have had a chance to get the vaccine. I think the government might discuss the adoption before then, but not do anything. This has the advantage of lots of newspaper column inches for very little government expenditure. They are then hoping that by the time enough people have had the vaccine, that the number of cases have dropped enough so they can fudge the issue.

 

[kez19]

Just the very idea of going to the shops or going for a quick pint or a meal with friends and being asked if I’ve been vaccinated or not is both ludicrous and horrifying this is even being discussed

Agree and to an earlier point upthread, regarding carrying ID, I still had to carry my passport til I was at least 25 to get into clubs or to buy drink since I didn’t get believed for my real age.

It’s a bit ironic in another sense when I turned 18 I didn’t have a passport, but only had my birth certificate to get into pubs, at the time too I was warned next time wouldn’t get in without the ID.

Also onto a point I remember in high school we had Validate UK cards but had been later told it was open to fraud (again why provide something to someone to then be told invalid)

 

[Yew]

I'd be interested to see how the vaccine has effected the IFR

We have a government for whom "long term" means the elections on May 6th. They like discussions of vaccine passports, as it stops the newspaper columnists from discussing the economy.

I think there is little chance of widespread adoption of a vaccine passport until all adults have had a chance to get the vaccine. I think the government might discuss the adoption before then, but not do anything. This has the advantage of lots of newspaper column inches for very little government expenditure. They are then hoping that by the time enough people have had the vaccine, that the number of cases have dropped enough so they can fudge the issue.

Surely once everyone who is able and wants has had the vaccine, there is no point in vaccine passports. And if there is, surely we should have them for more serious and transmissible diseases like measles.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

Looks like Keir Starmer is against vaccine passports.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377359593689346048

BREAKING: Keir Starmer says domestic Covid vaccine passports would be “un-British”

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377360534769651720

BREAKING: Keir Starmer on Vaccine passports:

“My instinct is that, as the vaccine is rolled out, as the number of hospital admissions and deaths go down, there will be a British sense that we don't actually want to go down this road."

 

[johnnychips]

^ Blimey, LibDem vote might turn to Labour if he keeps this up, on May 6th.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Looks like Keir Starmer is against vaccine passports.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377359593689346048

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377360534769651720

Fair play to him - for once he's actually standing up to the government!

If it came down to a parliamentary vote, I don't think the government could win - Labour plus the Lib Dems plus the CRG is a sizable bloc, and probably beats the loyal Tories. Since it'd hopefully come under English Votes for English Laws, they wouldn't even be able to get the SNP on side (since they seem more pro-vaccine passport).

 

[takno]

Fair play to him - for once he's actually standing up to the government!

If it came down to a parliamentary vote, I don't think the government could win - Labour plus the Lib Dems plus the CRG is a sizable bloc, and probably beats the loyal Tories. Since it'd hopefully come under English Votes for English Laws, they wouldn't even be able to get the SNP on side (since they seem more pro-vaccine passport).

The SNP would probably vote on it anyway with the justification that it affects the ability to implement the silly things in Scotland.

 

[Bikeman78]

Not just for pubs either, but pretty much everything - restaurants, cinemas, theatres, hotels, shopping malls, etc.

For those places where vaccine passports aren't really legally possible (yet) - eg. public transport and supermarkets - I'd therefore expect distancing, masks etc. to be continued to be required. At the rate we're going, quite possibly forever.

If that's the case, I'll try to avoid those places. Plenty of outdoor activities to keep me amused. With all the money I save I'll be able to afford a bigger TV at home

As regards mask wearing, it seems to be breaking down on trains to Hertford East. Down to 40-50% by my reckoning. On the Central line, a bloke sat two seats along from me without a mask. The girl opposite moved up one seat! What difference did she think that would make?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==

Agree and to an earlier point upthread, regarding carrying ID, I still had to carry my passport til I was at least 25 to get into clubs or to buy drink since I didn’t get believed for my real age.

It’s a bit ironic in another sense when I turned 18 I didn’t have a passport, but only had my birth certificate to get into pubs, at the time too I was warned next time wouldn’t get in without the ID.

I got asked for ID in Sainsburys when I was 30! Ironically I was quite stubbly in my mid teens so I could easily get away with buying cigarettes before I was legally allowed to. Not that I smoked but some of the other kids did. It worked perfectly because I was known as a non smoker so none of the teachers thought to search me if they saw me on the way back from the shops.

 

[Bantamzen]

Looks like Keir Starmer is against vaccine passports.

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377359593689346048

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/status/1377360534769651720

Its a very guarded statement, but for the first time he does seem to be actually pushing back on such proposals. Maybe the public feeling over this idea is starting to get through to politicians. One can only hope.

 

[Smidster]

Its a very guarded statement, but for the first time he does seem to be actually pushing back on such proposals. Maybe the public feeling over this idea is starting to get through to politicians. One can only hope.

Hate to say this but the public are largely in favour - The public is never hot on Civil Liberties and they have the false impression that a Vaccine Passport will help end the Pandemic / "Save Lives"

 

[Bantamzen]

Hate to say this but the public are largely in favour - The public is never hot on Civil Liberties and they have the false impression that a Vaccine Passport will help end the Pandemic / "Save Lives"

Are they? According to whom, the polls taken on the subject? I hate to say this, but polls don't always actually represent actual public opinion. Sure many people might think passports are a good idea for others, but once they realise that they will also affect them, well you know the score.

 

[kristiang85]

All the informal polls I see, as well as my anecdotal reading of 'below the line' comments, shows a public vehemently against them.

The IPSOS MORI polls were complete nonsense as a representation of the public at large.

 

[takno]

All the informal polls I see, as well as my anecdotal reading of 'below the line' comments, shows a public vehemently against them.

The IPSOS MORI polls were complete nonsense as a representation of the public at large.

The guardian and BBC comments section finally seem to be swinging behind this as a story of Tories wrecking civil liberties. That may not be settled public opinion yet, but the threat from Covid is visibly falling away, and a vile home secretary is moving to ban protest. Being angry at an incompetent and evil Tory government is frankly comfortable territory for much of the country.

Either way, Keir may have been pretty annoying the last 9 months, but if public opinion is reasonably evenly split then he sure as hell won't want to be Boris's side of it

 

[kristiang85]

The Times says Johnson will announce something on vaccine passports on Monday (or early next week) - it doesn't seem to say which way he will go, but it does say the top levels of government do see them as a way forward to open up. Given how 'leaky' the government is with its ideas before announcing them, I am worried there might be some veracity in it all and it is going to happen.

I can see Johnson as framing it as 'I am keeping my promises to open up by June 21st, when everyone will be offered the vaccine, but its conditional you do this'. Then if there's a huge pushback from the public or other parties, he can then keep the stupid rule of 6 or social distancing measures in place beyond that date.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't trust that man one inch.

 

[Eyersey468]

The Times says Johnson will announce something on vaccine passports on Monday (or early next week) - it doesn't seem to say which way he will go, but it does say the top levels of government do see them as a way forward to open up. Given how 'leaky' the government is with its ideas before announcing them, I am worried there might be some veracity in it all and it is going to happen.

I can see Johnson as framing it as 'I am keeping my promises to open up by June 21st, when everyone will be offered the vaccine, but its conditional you do this'. Then if there's a huge pushback from the public or other parties, he can then keep the stupid rule of 6 or social distancing measures in place beyond that date.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't trust that man one inch.

I don't trust him either

 

[nedchester]

Are they? According to whom, the polls taken on the subject? I hate to say this, but polls don't always actually represent actual public opinion. Sure many people might think passports are a good idea for others, but once they realise that they will also affect them, well you know the score.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==

I don't trust him either

Trust Boris? Is that a thing...surely the public aren't that stupid?

 

[bramling]

All the informal polls I see, as well as my anecdotal reading of 'below the line' comments, shows a public vehemently against them.

The IPSOS MORI polls were complete nonsense as a representation of the public at large.

I’m not so sure about passports, but the vibe I get is that people are vehemently in favour of “other people” being vaccinated. There’s certainly a narrative doing the rounds that it’s a health hazard being near anyone who isn’t vaccinated.

The suggestion of a “clean pub” and a “dirty pub” isn’t that far off the realms of possibility unfortunately.

 

[kristiang85]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==


Trust Boris? Is that a thing...surely the public aren't that stupid?

Yes sadly this seems to be the case. The types of people for it seem to be the more sanctimonious types who see pubs as a hotbed of sodomy, violence and poor health, but they don't realise that this is just the thin end of the wedge for their civil liberties.

I've got a friend convinced that the government is targeting hospitality specifically because they don't want people talking to each other and sharing ideas (let's face it, many a revolution has started in a drinking den) - and making pubs vaccinated-only then it filters out those who would dissent from being in them. At first I thought he was talking nonsense, but the longer this speculation goes on it does make you think.

 

[Eyersey468]

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==


Trust Boris? Is that a thing...surely the public aren't that stupid?

I think there is a lot don't trust him

 

[nedchester]

I think there is a lot don't trust him

Well he is a certified liar!

 

[Gadget88]

The big day is Monday folks

GP surgeries and supermarkets exempt seemingly

We could be in a situation where it’s law for passports for pubs cinema concerts and holidays

Stramer and Lib Dem’s oppose is it enough to stop it getting through parliament?

 

[kristiang85]

Well he is a certified liar!

Maybe today, April 1st, he will say something truthful?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==

We could be in a situation where it’s law for passports for pubs cinema concerts and holidays

Stramer and Lib Dem’s oppose is it enough to stop it getting through parliament?

And this is what worries me - it will fail, and he will keep social restrictions in beyond June 21st and blame the opposition parties for it. Classic BJ.

 

[Gadget88]

The Times says Johnson will announce something on vaccine passports on Monday (or early next week) - it doesn't seem to say which way he will go, but it does say the top levels of government do see them as a way forward to open up. Given how 'leaky' the government is with its ideas before announcing them, I am worried there might be some veracity in it all and it is going to happen.

I can see Johnson as framing it as 'I am keeping my promises to open up by June 21st, when everyone will be offered the vaccine, but its conditional you do this'. Then if there's a huge pushback from the public or other parties, he can then keep the stupid rule of 6 or social distancing measures in place beyond that date.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't trust that man one inch.

I am voting SNP and I demand independence away from this awful controlling prime minister. That’s it the union is finished.

 

[MikeWM]

You may have a point to be fair. I mean I can see merit to a national ID scheme linked to National Insurance / Health Service numbers, as someone who has worked front line in the past in the public service, and trained to do ID checks, I know how hard it can be for people to gain access to even basic services when they don't drive or hold a passport. So something legislated to be no more than a universal ID scheme is viable, but as you rightly note it is the politicians that need to be checked.

Yes, the only real problem with an ID card itself is the rather unpleasant concept of being forced to carry it and produce it on demand, like they do in France. Which could be easily prevented by primary legislation.

But the concern at the time was more about how extensive the underlying database was going to be, and how it could/would be further extended to track all manner of other things. I remember No2ID trying to make that point very clear; indeed I think their tagline was 'no to the database state'.

 

[Gadget88]

Maybe today, April 1st, he will say something truthful?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 1 Apr 2021 ==



And this is what worries me - it will fail, and he will keep social restrictions in beyond June 21st and blame the opposition parties for it. Classic BJ.

Then the other parties will have oppose that how they heck could theatres open?

 

[Richard Scott]

I am voting SNP and I demand independence away from this awful controlling prime minister. That’s it the union is finished.

What? Just so you can have another one? You don't think Sturgeon is controlling then? Suggest you carefully review the past year.

 

[kristiang85]

Then the other parties will have oppose that

I don't think they can, as they voted through the Coronavirus legislation for another 6 months last week...

 

[nlogax]

I am voting SNP and I demand independence away from this awful controlling prime minister. That’s it the union is finished.

Didn't we establish some weeks or months ago that voting SNP in order to secure fewer or no restrictions would be utterly pointless and counterproductive? Did I imagine that conversation?

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I’m not so sure about passports, but the vibe I get is that people are vehemently in favour of “other people” being vaccinated. There’s certainly a narrative doing the rounds that it’s a health hazard being near anyone who isn’t vaccinated.

The suggestion of a “clean pub” and a “dirty pub” isn’t that far off the realms of possibility unfortunately.

A dirty pub but the one where all the dirty women go (Pink Floyd reference or was it AC/DC?). I'm in.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Hate to say this but the public are largely in favour - The public is never hot on Civil Liberties and they have the false impression that a Vaccine Passport will help end the Pandemic / "Save Lives"

Where are you getting that from? Maybe if this had been a year ago I could agree with that but from what I can see people are fed up with restrictions and want and end to it, I know it might seem locktavists from Facebook are the majority but going by the fact that thousands marched in major cities a few weekends ago and with another march this month I don’t think the majority supports these at all.

The Lib Dem’s, Tory rebels and now Labour are against these passports, Boris will commit political suicide if he presses ahead with vaccine passports, it won’t do anything to recover the economy, and it’ll breed illegal pubs and festivals, it’ll kill off the Tories for generations, I’m pry convinced that this will be a step too far for Boris