"This is a no smoking train"

[flitwickbeds]

Just been on a Thameslink train into London and had a manual driver announcement - "Ladies and gentlemen, may I remind you that this is a no smoking train."

Clearly it's been illegal to smoke on trains for decades, but I've no doubt it still happens regularly. Indeed I've been on a stationary train twice before while the driver (Thameslink is DOO) waits for smoke to clear so the smoke alarm can be reset.

My question is, how would the driver be able to preemptively make the announcement before smoke alarms trigger? The only way I can think of is by actively monitoring cctv in all carriages looking for someone who might be about to light up? Would this not be potentially distracting to the main job of monitoring the track ahead?

 

[8J]

Just been on a Thameslink train into London and had a manual driver announcement - "Ladies and gentlemen, may I remind you that this is a no smoking train."

Clearly it's been illegal to smoke on trains for decades, but I've no doubt it still happens regularly. Indeed I've been on a stationary train twice before while the driver (Thameslink is DOO) waits for smoke to clear so the smoke alarm can be reset.

My question is, how would the driver be able to preemptively make the announcement before smoke alarms trigger? The only way I can think of is by actively monitoring cctv in all carriages looking for someone who might be about to light up? Would this not be potentially distracting to the main job of monitoring the track ahead?

In answer to your question in the last paragraph, driving cabs aren't totally air tight.

I've had a gentleman sit behind my cab who stank of cannabis.

At the next station, I politely asked him to go and sit somewhere else as it was distracting me. He was apologetic and went and sat elsewhere.

Maybe in this instance, someone was smoking in the leading coach?

 

[bramling]

Just been on a Thameslink train into London and had a manual driver announcement - "Ladies and gentlemen, may I remind you that this is a no smoking train."

Clearly it's been illegal to smoke on trains for decades, but I've no doubt it still happens regularly. Indeed I've been on a stationary train twice before while the driver (Thameslink is DOO) waits for smoke to clear so the smoke alarm can be reset.

My question is, how would the driver be able to preemptively make the announcement before smoke alarms trigger? The only way I can think of is by actively monitoring cctv in all carriages looking for someone who might be about to light up? Would this not be potentially distracting to the main job of monitoring the track ahead?

Two obvious ways which don’t involve any special effort or devices:

(1) if they’re smoking directly behind the cab then it will be very obvious indeed. I recently busted someone on this when riding in a rear cab, was unimpressed to be told “I was only rolling it” having been viewing the whole thing through the spy hole. Needless to say, off at the next station.

(2) someone standing in a doorway puffing away, and seen on the DOO CCTV.

 

[flitwickbeds]

Two obvious ways which don’t involve any special effort or devices:

(1) if they’re smoking directly behind the cab then it will be very obvious indeed. I recently busted someone on this when riding in a rear cab, was unimpressed to be told “I was only rolling it” having been viewing the whole thing through the spy hole. Needless to say, off at the next station.

(2) someone standing in a doorway puffing away, and seen on the DOO CCTV.

Definitely not number 2. This was 15 minutes into a 20 minute clear stretch between station calls (somewhere around Kentish Town on a St Albans to St Pancras fast train)

 

[Mojo]

It may not have been in relation to anything particular - some staff just like making announcements.

 

[AlterEgo]

Funnily enough I was on a SE Networker this morning and someone was smoking on it. Been a while since I saw that!

 

[ComUtoR]

It may not have been in relation to anything particular - some staff just like making announcements.

Fast to St Alban's, get bored around silkstream, play with PIS

 

[Shoeburysam]

To be honest smoking has made a massive comeback on public transport in the last few months. I've seen many a station where people are smoking or smelt it on my train. I'm a smoker myself but wouldn't dream of doing it while driving. Not worth my job. Think that's why it bothers me so much. If I can't have a fag then neither should you.

 

[Bald Rick]

Definitely not number 2. This was 15 minutes into a 20 minute clear stretch between station calls (somewhere around Kentish Town on a St Albans to St Pancras fast train)

IM fairly sure I read somewhere that the smoke alarms have been changed to have a two stage alert - the first stage warns the driver who can then check out what is going on. Perhaps a TL driver can confirm.

 

[Need2]

IM fairly sure I read somewhere that the smoke alarms have been changed to have a two stage alert - the first stage warns the driver who can then check out what is going on. Perhaps a TL driver can confirm.

Not that I know of! (Unless it’s being planned)
The smoke alarms are a bleeding nightmare. You can see someone via the internal cctv smoking away without a care and the alarm rarely activates, other times it goes off and when you go back to investigate you can’t see or smell any evidence of smoking.

 

[Horizon22]

My question is, how would the driver be able to preemptively make the announcement before smoke alarms trigger? The only way I can think of is by actively monitoring cctv in all carriages looking for someone who might be about to light up? Would this not be potentially distracting to the main job of monitoring the track ahead?

Maybe he saw them lighting up on the platform and boarding?

Edit: I see you've mentioned it was between station calls - as others have mentioned it might just be pre-emptive. As some consider that drivers don't make enough manual announcements, I'd take this as a positive.

 

[ComUtoR]

Not that I know of! (Unless it’s being planned)
The smoke alarms are a bleeding nightmare.

They used to be super sensitive. Due to the plethora of activations the sensitivity was turned down a bit.

Might just be a case of some being more sensitive than others.

 

[Horizon22]

To be honest smoking has made a massive comeback on public transport in the last few months. I've seen many a station where people are smoking or smelt it on my train. I'm a smoker myself but wouldn't dream of doing it while driving. Not worth my job. Think that's why it bothers me so much. If I can't have a fag then neither should you.

Probably exacerbated a little by the recent lack of revenue checks and staff not being quite as proactive as perhaps they were before due to Covid.

 

[choochoochoo]

Probably exacerbated a little by the recent lack of revenue checks and staff not being quite as proactive as perhaps they were before due to Covid.

without diverting the thread, i bet this is also explains the increase in onboard graffiti too

 

[47271]

It happens here and there.

There was a time a few years ago when once every week or so I was in the front coach of a Scotrail Turbostar between Perth and Ladybank and caught a very strong smell of fag smoke.

Each time I looked up and down the length and could see absolutely no sign of a passenger smoking. The location is in open countryside so, unless there was a farmer stood in a field with an enormous cigarette, there was only one place it could've been coming from. If it had happened one more time I was ready to bang on the door and shout 'we can smell your fag driver'.

Sticking more closely to topic, I was on a Virgin Pendolino approaching Wigan a few years ago. The PA burst into life with an irritated sounding local accent, but obviously from a guard who has been provided with accurate intelligence. 'This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

 

[Bald Rick]

This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

Wigan Athletic on a day out somewhere?

 

[brad465]

Last year I was on a train where a smoker doing so in a train doorway on the SE Network was identified on the tannoy and also slated for not wearing a mask (I think they had one but it was down at the time), given by default the latter isn't happening if they're smoking.

 

[Horizon22]

Sticking more closely to topic, I was on a Virgin Pendolino approaching Wigan a few years ago. The PA burst into life with an irritated sounding local accent, but obviously from a guard who has been provided with accurate intelligence. 'This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

Probably set off the alarm in there and driver told the train manager and made the PA. Some of the...less educated passengers think the toilets won't have alarms

 

[21C101]

One advantage in the days of smoking being permitted in one carriage, particularly in late evening services was that troublemakers generally gravitated to the smoking carriage and could usually be avoided in the non smoking part. Once smoking was banned then they became spread across the train.

 

[mark-h]

'This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

If only there was a way of using the liquid tank underneath the toilet for fire fighting.

 

[Halish Railway]

Oh dear, all of this reminds me of when I was on a Northern Dusty Bin and some Ali Gs decided to smoke weed when sat IMMEDIATELY BEHIND the driver’s cab. I genuinely had no words.

On topic of smelly things, can we please ban applying nail varnish on trains?

 

[D6130]

Oh dear, all of this reminds me of when I was on a Northern Dusty Bin and some Ali Gs decided to smoke weed when sat IMMEDIATELY BEHIND the driver’s cab. I genuinely had no words.

On topic of smelly things, can we please ban applying nail varnish on trains?

Fully agree with the nail varnish issue. A few years ago my wife and I had our lunch ruined travelling back from Paris in Eurostar Standard Premier, by an extremely glamourous business-type lady who spent virtually the entire journey to St Pancras firstly removing her old nail varnish using horrible smelling acetone and then applying a different colour varnish, which was just as vomit-inducing in its odour.

 

[whoosh]

Just been on a Thameslink train into London and had a manual driver announcement - "Ladies and gentlemen, may I remind you that this is a no smoking train."

Clearly it's been illegal to smoke on trains for decades, but I've no doubt it still happens regularly. Indeed I've been on a stationary train twice before while the driver (Thameslink is DOO) waits for smoke to clear so the smoke alarm can be reset.

My question is, how would the driver be able to preemptively make the announcement before smoke alarms trigger? The only way I can think of is by actively monitoring cctv in all carriages looking for someone who might be about to light up? Would this not be potentially distracting to the main job of monitoring the track ahead?

On a 700, you can only view CCTV when the train is at a stand.
It can be viewed from the rear cab (no driver's key inserted in the desk) at any time.

 

[southern442]

Fully agree with the nail varnish issue. A few years ago my wife and I had our lunch ruined travelling back from Paris in Eurostar Standard Premier, by an extremely glamourous business-type lady who spent virtually the entire journey to St Pancras firstly removing her old nail varnish using horrible smelling acetone and then applying a different colour varnish, which was just as vomit-inducing in its odour.

I think that a lot of people seem to forget that just because some people like the smell (myself included) doesn't mean that everyone else is indifferent!
Having been out a few times on the trains in the past couple of days I have noticed more dodgy-looking behaviour than usual. I have also been predominantly using Southeastern though so perhaps that is normal?

This also reminds me of a time I saw an elderly-looking man rolling some cigarettes on the Victoria Line. On the third one, he paused after putting the tobacco in, and took out a tiny tin with some white powder in it, sprinkled some into the cigarette, rolled it up and put it in his front pocket, separate from the others!

 

[fairysdad]

Sticking more closely to topic, I was on a Virgin Pendolino approaching Wigan a few years ago. The PA burst into life with an irritated sounding local accent, but obviously from a guard who has been provided with accurate intelligence. 'This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

My similar tale comes from a Great Western HST where the guard's announcement was 'This is a reminder that smoking is prohibited on this and all our trains, including the rear toilet of Coach C.' (Granted, it was fast Reading-Exeter, and some people's addictions are quite severe...)

 

[bluesfromagun]

Probably set off the alarm in there and driver told the train manager and made the PA. Some of the...less educated passengers think the toilets won't have alarms

Fact of the day - I didn't actually believe until reading this that any trains really did have smoke alarms in the toilets. Certainly all the trains I've worked in my career (and still do) have "this toilet is fitted with a smoke alarm" stickers in, but I know none of them really do have any kind of cigarette detection equipment in!
Nice to hear some TOCs invested in the actual equipment rather than just the warning stickers!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 31 Mar 2021 ==

To be honest smoking has made a massive comeback on public transport in the last few months. I've seen many a station where people are smoking or smelt it on my train. I'm a smoker myself but wouldn't dream of doing it while driving. Not worth my job. Think that's why it bothers me so much. If I can't have a fag then neither should you.

I know its off-topic sort of, but you wouldn't lose your job for having a fag whilst driving. The most I've ever seen come out of that is the driver or guard concerned getting a 'small word' from their manager, because it's almost totally impossible to actually prove you did it. You can't have cameras in a cab, nobody can enter the cab whilst you're driving, the worst you can ever get is a complaint about a smoke smell - which can never be proven for the reasons above.

 

[Pakenhamtrain]

Fact of the day - I didn't actually believe until reading this that any trains really did have smoke alarms in the toilets. Certainly all the trains I've worked in my career (and still do) have "this toilet is fitted with a smoke alarm" stickers in, but I know none of them really do have any kind of cigarette detection equipment in!
Nice to hear some TOCs invested in the actual equipment rather than just the warning stickers!

Our new HCMTs have detectors in each car and fire doors every second car.

 

[Butts]

One advantage in the days of smoking being permitted in one carriage, particularly in late evening services was that troublemakers generally gravitated to the smoking carriage and could usually be avoided in the non smoking part. Once smoking was banned then they became spread across the train.

Not all smokers (including me) are troublemakers .... this post is smokist

There were smoking facilities in 1st Class as well you know !!

 

[D6130]

There were smoking facilities in 1st Class as well you know !!

There used to be pre-privatisation....and post-privatisation on most long-distance routes.

 

[Aictos]

It happens here and there.

There was a time a few years ago when once every week or so I was in the front coach of a Scotrail Turbostar between Perth and Ladybank and caught a very strong smell of fag smoke.

Each time I looked up and down the length and could see absolutely no sign of a passenger smoking. The location is in open countryside so, unless there was a farmer stood in a field with an enormous cigarette, there was only one place it could've been coming from. If it had happened one more time I was ready to bang on the door and shout 'we can smell your fag driver'.

Sticking more closely to topic, I was on a Virgin Pendolino approaching Wigan a few years ago. The PA burst into life with an irritated sounding local accent, but obviously from a guard who has been provided with accurate intelligence. 'This is a reminder, especially to those in tracksuits travelling in Coach B, that this is a no smoking service, including the toilets.'

I used to do that all the time while a dispatcher, used to do a general no smoking announcement and if the person/s were still smoking I would state this is a announcement for the (description of person/s) on (platform) no smoking etc, please put out your cigarette. The look of wonder on their faces!

On the other hand if there was disruption and I had trains being held in the station then the smoking ban took a backseat because I was of the view that people who smoke if you let them have a smoke while their train is delayed for whatever reason were a lot calmer and not as stressed as they would have been had they been told no smoking. This is a policy that wasn't company wide but it was something I did on my own initiative with the full backing of my TOCs at the time. Indeed once I had another TOC's service being held in the station which was likely to be there for some time so I came to a understanding with the guard that passengers on their train would be allowed to get off to stretch their legs and have a smoke but were restricted to the platforms, generally this also involved a quick call to the on call manager and I always had a okay that's fine, good thinking reply.

As to the 700s, how sensitive were they then originally with the smoke detectors?