ATW & Northern Service Changes Dec 2010

[MidnightFlyer]

From December 2010:

ATW - Sundays only: four extra services Wolves-Shrewbury operated by a 153, subject to pathing being agreed by NR. The service will run two-hourly, and is designed to relief overcrowding on the other services. M-F only: also planned is an extra train for Cardiff-Holyhead, 0750 from holyhead and 1817 from the capital. Proposed for either a 175 or loco-hauled, and due to start in 2011, once WAG agree funding for the limited-stop service.

Northern - All days: looking to extend some Calder Valley services (Leeds-Bradford/Dewsbury-Todmorden-Vic) services through to Salford or Wigan. Also examining running the Liverpool-Stalybridge Northern service from Southport and Wigan instead of Liverpool (which would terminate at Vic instead). Sunday only: additional early morning train from Rochdale to Vic and return to give Rochdale an earlier arrival time into Manchester. An extra Saturday morning train to Blackburn from Vic is planned too, as are more trains to Rose Hill Marple. Sunday only: extend two of the current Darlington-Hartlepools to MetroCentre, incorperating the existing Sunderland-MetroCentre trains.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

With regards to the Darlington - Hartlepool service, does this mean the Sunderland - Metro Centre trains will be cancelled in order for this to carry on through? Or is it more of a supplement?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

With regards to the Darlington - Hartlepool service, does this mean the Sunderland - Metro Centre trains will be cancelled in order for this to carry on through? Or is it more of a supplement?

Think it means to replace, basically just combining two separate services, as well as providing more services for stations in between

EDIT - it uses the word 'incorperate', so I assume it means combine

The source for all this is the new issue of RAIL (654)

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

Thanks for the info.
It shall be nice to see trains going elsewhere than Newcastle & Darlington, even if it is only one extra stop, eh?

Seaham should definately benefit!

 

[Sir_Clagalot]

I think they would run them at times so that when they get to Sunderland they will just pick up the path of the exisiting sunderland-metro centre trains. IIRC the NCL-SUN services still run hourly on sundays, but only two hourly south of Sunderland.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I think they would run them at times so that when they get to Sunderland they will just pick up the path of the exisiting sunderland-metro centre trains. IIRC the NCL-SUN services still run hourly on sundays, but only two hourly south of Sunderland.

Yeah, we only get a two-hourly service - but it could do with hourly!

 

[142094]

I guess that means that no scheduled services will serve the bay at Hartlepool anymore.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Only two are scheduled to go through to Sunderland etc, dunno howe many services there are in total

 

[merlodlliw]

From December 2010:

ATW - Sundays only: four extra services Wolves-Shrewbury operated by a 153, subject to pathing being agreed by NR. The service will run two-hourly, and is designed to relief overcrowding on the other services. M-F only: also planned is an extra train for Cardiff-Holyhead, 0750 from holyhead and 1817 from the capital. Proposed for either a 175 or loco-hauled, and due to start in 2011, once WAG agree funding for the limited-stop service.

Northern - All days: looking to extend some Calder Valley services (Leeds-Bradford/Dewsbury-Todmorden-Vic) services through to Salford or Wigan. Also examining running the Liverpool-Stalybridge Northern service from Southport and Wigan instead of Liverpool (which would terminate at Vic instead). Sunday only: additional early morning train from Rochdale to Vic and return to give Rochdale an earlier arrival time into Manchester. An extra Saturday morning train to Blackburn from Vic is planned too, as are more trains to Rose Hill Marple. Sunday only: extend two of the current Darlington-Hartlepools to MetroCentre, incorperating the existing Sunderland-MetroCentre trains.

Rail as picked up on what we already know in Wales, The extra service to Cardiff from Holyhead and return, up to now as not been funded and will not operate in the Dec 2010 timetable, if from 2011 May timetable it does, it will be a 175 via Wrexham, but this is all pie in the sky, where is this 175 stock to come from, rail as just taken this from the ATW house magazine aspirations.

 

[OMGitsDAVE]

I guess that means that no scheduled services will serve the bay at Hartlepool anymore.

Aren't there 3 Darlo - Hpool services on a sunday?

 

[WatcherZero]

Matt arent those the PROPOSED Dec 2011 Timetable changes?

These are the Dec 2010 Greater Manchester changes

1. Northern Rail.

• The diversion of 1 train per hour (1tph) from Marple to Rose Hill, following the commitment of funding by the Authority giving 2tph in the off-peak period to/from Rose Hill.

• To better meet the demand for travel to Manchester on Saturdays, the existing 07:00 Saturday Only (SO) Blackburn – Manchester Victoria service will be withdrawn. The resource saved will be used to enable the introduction of a new 10:30 SO Blackburn – Manchester Victoria service. A new 0929 SO Manchester Victoria – Blackburn service will also operate.

• The introduction of an earlier Sunday morning return service, calling at all intermediate stations, Rochdale and Manchester Victoria, to provide an arrival in the City before 10.00.

2. First TransPennine Express (FTPE).

There are no alterations proposed in December 2010 to the FTPE services to and from Manchester apart from some minor retiming and refinement. FTPE has registered their intention to call all Liverpool services at Liverpool South Parkway. This will provide a better link for passengers from Greater Manchester accessing Liverpool John Lennon Airport.

3. East Midlands Trains (EMT)

Following discussions with GMPTE, from May 2010 the 1652 Liverpool to Norwich service (Manchester Piccadilly at 1743) has called additionally at Chinley. The train has capacity, and whilst outside Greater Manchester, this small addition has provided a benefit to commuters travelling into Greater Manchester, including Stockport and provides an alternative to services via Bredbury, so relieving loadings.

EMT plans no further changes in December 2010, as the strengthening of most services between Liverpool and Norwich to 4 cars has been postponed because of delays in the release of Class 150 trains to the operator under HLOS.

EMT also report that any improvements/changes on the Liverpool to Norwich corridor are linked to the completion of the HLOS unit deliveries which were originally hoped to be delivered for May 2011 but now looks likely to be as late as 2012.
From a train service perspective once EMT has all of the HLOS units, they intend to extend the 13.52 Liverpool to Nottingham service through to Norwich (Monday to Saturdays). This path has been proved as part of the East Coast Mainline Eureka' timetable changes but cannot happen until EMT receives all of the HLOS units it has been allocated.

Other than the above, other major improvements on these services will be with the much needed strengthening of the majority of services between Liverpool and Nottingham to 4-car class 158 units. This can only happen once the HLOS units have been delivered (probably in stages) to EMT.

EMT has no further planned improvements for December 2011.

4. Arriva Train Wales (ATW).

The only amendment to ATW services from December 2010 is the extension of the 2032 (Every Weekday) Manchester Airport to Chester, to Holyhead replacing the 2100 Crewe to Holyhead which will terminate at Chester.

 

[fgwrich]

...rail as just taken this from the ATW house magazine aspirations.

Ah, Just like the idea that Eastleigh is to start receiving Virgins 57/3s for Warm storage...God only knows where that came from, Cause it isnt happening!:roll:

Sorry, Back on topic now...

 

[The Planner]

Rail as picked up on what we already know in Wales, The extra service to Cardiff from Holyhead and return, up to now as not been funded and will not operate in the Dec 2010 timetable, if from 2011 May timetable it does, it will be a 175 via Wrexham, but this is all pie in the sky, where is this 175 stock to come from, rail as just taken this from the ATW house magazine aspirations.

The WAG need to sort themselves out then, that path is offered to ATW and will sit there eating up capacity if it doesnt run.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Matt arent those the PROPOSED Dec 2011 Timetable changes?

The Calder Valley and Stalybridge stiuff may be, the article was poorly worded, but all stuff about Rochdale, Blackburn, and MArple was correct, as was all ATW and MetroCentre stuff.

 

[merlodlliw]

The WAG need to sort themselves out then, that path is offered to ATW and will sit there eating up capacity if it doesnt run.

Are you saying this extra train could be in the Dec 2010 timetable? no one
elected at WAG (AMs) have heard a word about this. There may be a path offered, but nothing is in the All Wales Plan except "All future Holyhead to Cardiff
and return services will pass through Wrexham and not Crewe" as stated by the Minister for rail/air/road Ieuan Wyn Jones.Hence a 175 at this time, And the printed Dec 2010 All Wales timetable goes "off stone" in a couple of weeks. thread 11 gives no comment on this from Watcher Zero.

I can not believe a subsidiary of DB will fund another Premier Class service out of its own pocket, so planner what is the path & stations on offer,is it class 57 or DMU, out of interest.

 

[The Planner]

Look at this thread where I told you before.....

Here

 

[tom1649]

• The diversion of 1 train per hour (1tph) from Marple to Rose Hill, following the commitment of funding by the Authority giving 2tph in the off-peak period to/from Rose Hill.

Will the diverted train run via Hyde then or will it continue to run via Bredbury? Hyde only gets one train an hour at present and would also benefit from an increased service.

 

[merlodlliw]

Look at this thread where I told you before.....

Here

yes you did, thanks, ill ask a few questions.

Bangor, Llandudno Jn, Chester, Crewe, Shrewsbury, Hereford, Newport. Same in the reverse direction

 

[142094]

Aren't there 3 Darlo - Hpool services on a sunday?

Thought it was only two, unless it has changed?

 

[merlodlliw]

As planner let us into the secret along with confirmation from another on RF, I have made enquires with those who are also in the know,so to speak.

No one is sure when this ghost train will start, however if it were to be a 175 it would travel via Wrexham, so that's ruled out as its confirmed via Crewe, this now looks like a back track on statements and promises made by the WAG Minister to send all future services Holyhead Cardiff
away from Crewe.


Following info received from Cardiff NR yesterday , we wont see a double track between Wrexham & Saltney for years. Info below from NR to the A.M Mark Isherwood who raised the question on our behalf then passed on to constituents.


Good morning



Further to my earlier email, I can confirm that the scheme to deliver journey improvements between North and South Wales is currently in GRIP Stage 3 – Option Selection. As part of GRIP 3 we look at a number of different options to deliver the proposed outputs. I note that the constituent that raised this issue with Mr Isherwood referred to the re-doubling of the line between Saltney and Rossett. As we are currently in GRIP 3, this is just one of the options we are looking at and no final decision has yet been made on the scheme design to proceed.



We hope to complete GRIP 3 in late Spring / early Summer 2011 and will then proceed to GRIP 4 – Single Option Selection.



I will of course keep Mr Isherwood updated as we proceed with the project, though should you have any questions in the meantime, please do not hesitate to contact me.



Kind regards,







(name removed)

Public Affairs

Network Rail



5th Floor

5 Callaghan Square

Cardiff

CF10 5BT

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Northern - .... Also examining running the Liverpool-Stalybridge Northern service from Southport and Wigan instead of Liverpool (which would terminate at Vic instead)....

To be fair, if electrification goes ahead it would have to happen at some point anyway.