Lumo (East Coast Trains) Class 803 Updates/Discussion

[swt_passenger]

Could be behind LNER as far as York then take the avoiding lines and leapfrog it!

There was an example of a service using the avoiding lines posted earlier in the May timetable thread...

May 2021 Timetable Change

First East Coast Trains are showing...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[hexagon789]

I wonder if that 1958 off Edinburgh will put a considerable dent in Sleeper traffic? 1830 is the last southbound at present.

Certainly useful for later travelling back south, and not too slow a working either compared to the typical extra stop late services - just over 5 hours.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Certainly useful for later travelling back south, and not too slow a working either compared to the typical extra stop late services - just over 5 hours.

Yeah, one key thing it does is to enable a day's work followed by a meal. With the very early outbound, business travellers who prefer not staying away from home will be able to do a viable single-day trip, which is definitely a hit on the airlines, who provided the only really viable way to do this before.

 

[Bald Rick]

I wonder if that 1958 off Edinburgh will put a considerable dent in Sleeper traffic? 1830 is the last southbound at present.

Same for the last northbound. It will may take a few people off the sleeper seats. Doubt it will take many out of the beds.

 

[Bob Price]

Are they driver training at the moment? Just saw an ECS Hull Train pass Peterborough, Doncaster to KX.

 

[hexagon789]

Yeah, one key thing it does is to enable a day's work followed by a meal. With the very early outbound, business travellers who prefer not staying away from home will be able to do a viable single-day trip, which is definitely a hit on the airlines, who provided the only really viable way to do this before.

Which is exactly the sort of business First wants to draw and good luck to them

 

[RPI]

The problem I find with GWR is that often the trolley doesn't get to you because it's one trolley in a 9-car set, or one in a pair of 5-cars that has to stay in the front one so there is a competent member of staff there.

ECT will not suffer either of these issues as they have shorter trains and won't normally be doubling them up.

I'd personally rather a trolley than a buffet provided it passes my seat at least once per hour throughout the journey, and ideally quite soon after boarding.

For fear of going off topic but virtually all 10 cars are booked for at least one customer host in each set, though this quite often doesn't materialise at weekends!

 

[southern442]

Which is exactly the sort of business First wants to draw and good luck to them

Come to think of it, this was probably their exact line of reasoning for the very early and very late departures off of Edinburgh.

 

[Ianno87]

I wonder if that 1958 off Edinburgh will put a considerable dent in Sleeper traffic? 1830 is the last southbound at present.

Those who find an 0105 King's Cross arrival useful! (Night Bus lovers...)

The Stevenage stop does provide a handy late Cambridge connection, which I can see a non-trivial number of people finding useful.


The main purpose of the very late service in each direction seems to be to make sure that at least one London morning starter finishes the day in Edinburgh and vice-versa, to cycle the stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Might not be an official connection but you could easily make the 0134 off Euston from that.

 

[Ianno87]

Might not be an official connection but you could easily make the 0134 off Euston from that.

Especially as it's pathed via Hertford, and last pick up is Newcastle, so I can imagine it arriving very early on occasion if it runs Main Line throughout.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Did LNER consent to one of their trains being slowed down? It looks as if 1S93 1045 King's Cross to Edinburgh arriving 1517 has pushed the arrival of 1S13 1100 King's Cross to Edinburgh from 1519 in the current timetable to 1522 in May. I know it's only 3 minutes but seems surprising that they would permit an existing service to be slowed to allow a competitor to run.

 

[Ianno87]

Did LNER consent to one of their trains being slowed down? It looks as if 1S93 1045 King's Cross to Edinburgh arriving 1517 has pushed the arrival of 1S13 1100 King's Cross to Edinburgh from 1519 in the current timetable to 1522 in May. I know it's only 3 minutes but seems surprising that they would permit an existing service to be slowed to allow a competitor to run.

Not their decision, it's Network Rail's.

Network Rail will have had to do this in order to accommodate all operators with Track Access Rights. LNER are unlikely to have any contractual rights to journey times.

LNER could dispute this if they wanted to, if they think it is unfair or a better solution is possible.

 

[91103eastcoast]

Thank you, that makes sense now.

 

[James90012]

The 10.53 southbound on a Sunday is a particularly attractive service, can see myself booking onto that in the future.

 

[Kite159]

The 2018 service for me might be helpful to reach Edinburgh, especially if I can pick up a reasonably priced city centre hotel close to the station (i.e. a Travelodge).

Although it will depend on pricing, likewise the early morning train on a Saturday

 

[Bald Rick]

The Stevenage stop does provide a handy late Cambridge connection, which I can see a non-trivial number of people finding useful.

There’s a big market from the Cambridge ‘economic area’ to Edinburgh: 1,700 a day use Easyjet from Stansted (pre Covid of course). Even if First only got a quarter of them, that’s a train filled.

 

[hexagon789]

Come to think of it, this was probably their exact line of reasoning for the very early and very late departures off of Edinburgh.

Quite possibly, though I don't think the timings would appeal only to business travellers, they would likely just be the main reasoning

 

[TheBigD]

There’s a big market from the Cambridge ‘economic area’ to Edinburgh: 1,700 a day use Easyjet from Stansted (pre Covid of course). Even if First only got a quarter of them, that’s a train filled.

I'm not convince that they'll get much "Cambridge economic area" traffic from the proposed times, SX- 0610 and 1241 north from Stevenage and 1612 and 1958 south from Edinburgh, don't look that attractive to me. Once the May 22 recast happens and if they get better paths and more Stevenage calls it may be more appealing.

At the risk of veering off in to speculation, if the "Cambridge economic area" market is worth pursuing would a stop at St Neots (straight down the A428 from Cambridge and the new town of Cambourne) instead be a better bet?

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm not convince that they'll get much "Cambridge economic area" traffic from the proposed times, SX- 0610 and 1241 north from Stevenage and 1612 and 1958 south from Edinburgh, don't look that attractive to me. Once the May 22 recast happens and if they get better paths and more Stevenage calls it may be more appealing.

At the risk of veering off in to speculation, if the "Cambridge economic area" market is worth pursuing would a stop at St Neots (straight down the A428 from Cambridge and the new town of Cambourne) instead be a better bet?

I was not as clear as I should have been. The area I refer to is where people who live or work (or both) that is reasonably easy to get to Cambridge and one of Stansted or Luton Airports. This is a fairly wide area, and for many (not all) a drive to Stevenage will be just as simple as a drive to one of the airports. And certainly cheaper or easier (or both) to park. Avoiding the airport security and waiting ‘experience’, plus a trip from the airport to destination the other end, which will more often than not be longer that a trip from Waverley, will bring the fly / train equation closer to the latter for some. That early train will beat the first flights from Luton or Stansted to Central Edinburgh, which the first LNER doesn’t.

 

[Starmill]

Same for the last northbound. It will may take a few people off the sleeper seats. Doubt it will take many out of the beds.

If the 1936 Edinburgh to London Kings Cross which ran until 2020 didn't, it seems unlikely that the 1958 will do. Especially because by the time the 1958 commences one would expect LNER to respond by reintroducing the 1936.

 

[greatvoyager]

Any updates on progress of these units?

 

[TheHSRailFan]

Any updates on progress of these units?

Not that I know of apart from 1 image on trainlogger.(Link)
as well with the image and sighting (this being 803002) there is an author/admin note saying...

Only First 4 Coaches of 803002 Present at the time..

(Link to the log with the note)

 

[greatvoyager]

Not that I know of apart from 1 image on trainlogger.(Link)
as well with the image and sighting (this being 803002) there is an author/admin note saying...

(Link to the log with the note)

Thanks for the photos, hopefully we’ll know more soon.

 

[800001]

Any updates on progress of these units?

803001 is complete and undergoing testing at Newton Aycliffe, it has been visible outside all week.

 

[greatvoyager]

803001 is complete and undergoing testing at Newton Aycliffe, it has been visible outside all week.

Thank you.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thank you.

Did you miss the video posted in early March showing 803001 outside? Post #78 onwards had the discussion…

 

[greatvoyager]

Did you miss the video posted in early March showing 803001 outside? Post #78 onwards had the discussion…

Yes, I was asking about progress from that. Just being courteous for any information.

 

[swt_passenger]

Yes, I was asking about progress from that. Just being courteous for any information.

Ok for some reason I thought recent discussions had missed it…

 

[greatvoyager]

Have there been any updates on interior layout? I assume it will be the usual layout, minus first class.