Can I take a motorcycle on a train?

[83A]

Indeed and there are both electronic and mechanical versions. The mechanical version is ingenious using gears to rotate the speed sensor magnet at a different speed to the wheel. Very expensive and difficult to comprehend their use given limitations in battery power.

There is a Youtube vid where they compared an eMTB restricted and de-restricted on the same trail circuit. There was no real benefit and not worth doing.

It would only be of use to make you faster on the road.

 

[E759]

Those are really the important points. With an e-bike the motor is not there to make the bike go faster but to reduce the amount of physical effort required, making hill climbing easier and allowing cyclists to go further than they would be capable of going on a normal bike. People who have no cycling experience should not be learning on an e-bike and those with previous cycling experience don't need special training to be allowed to ride one.

The marketing for E-MTB is that the motor makes the bike go faster for the same physical effort. Range is less clear cut for MTB, although discussed ad nauseum, as to admit you can go further is to admit you weren’t capable under you own power!

The manufacturers are in a win-win situation as in reality there are riders, myself included!, who use the motor to go further with less effort.

 

[E759]

There is a Youtube vid where they compared an eMTB restricted and de-restricted on the same trail circuit. There was no real benefit and not worth doing.

It would only be of use to make you faster on the road.

Videos on YouTube concerning emtb that reach a scientific conclusion are like hens teeth. You’ve probably found the only one!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The marketing for E-MTB is that the motor makes the bike go faster for the same physical effort. Range is less clear cut for MTB, although discussed ad nauseum, as to admit you can go further is to admit you weren’t capable under you own power!

The manufacturers are in a win-win situation as in reality there are riders, myself included!, who use the motor to go further with less effort.

In essence the "killer app" of e-bikes is to make our hilly towns and cities as accessible to cycling as pancake-flat Dutch ones are. Not to go quicker per-se. Our Redways in MK are great, but it's a surprisingly hilly place, so if Old Mrs Jones is going to cycle to Tesco for her shopping she will need a bit of help.

 

[peters]

so if Old Mrs Jones is going to cycle to Tesco for her shopping she will need a bit of help.

I worked for a travel company that had e-bikes available as an option and these were very popular with the 60+ age group. We had people aged 75+ going on cycling holidays where they cycled over 150 miles over the course of a week. Some of them wouldn't have still been capable of doing that had only normal bikes been available. However, we did find e-bikes to not be suitable for coastal destinations, a bit of sand getting in the motors causes them to stop working.

 

[E759]

In essence the "killer app" of e-bikes is to make our hilly towns and cities as accessible to cycling as pancake-flat Dutch ones are. Not to go quicker per-se. Our Redways in MK are great, but it's a surprisingly hilly place, so if Old Mrs Jones is going to cycle to Tesco for her shopping she will need a bit of help.

Agree. This is an exciting time for the bicycle! With the Swytch solution proving an affordable entry point this really is the time for power to the people.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Agree. This is an exciting time for the bicycle! With the Swytch solution proving an affordable entry point this really is the time for power to the people.

Conversion kits aren't totally new of course. My Grandad had one on his ancient boneshaker in the late 1990s.

 

[30907]

City Night Line used to be popular for transporting Motorbikes between North Germany and the alps

Nightjet still is (or was when I last saw one, some time ago!)

 

[paul1609]

Hi. Possibly an obscure question (and I didn't really know which forum to post in) but can I take my motorcycle on a train journey? I have an electric motorcycle (Super Soco TC1500) with a limited range of about 50 miles. My parents live 100 miles away and obviously I can't get to their house using the motorcycle on its own. I start off in Preston and need to get near Cannock, Rugeley, Stafford or Lichfield. From any of those places I would have a 10 to 15 mile journey to get to my parents.

For context, if I were able to do this, I could get rid of my car completely so would be very advantageous. My parents are both nearly 78 and I can't expect them to be picking me up all the time. They live quite rurally and so buses and taxis either don't serve the area late into the evening or just plain don't want to go there.

I'm pretty sure in the 1980's, motorcycles could travel on a train but I suspect that would be a very different tale now.

No motorbikes on trains. If you watch the latest Ewan Macgregor Charlie Boorman motorcycle series the way to deal with electric motorcycles limited range is to be accompanied by a Diesel 18 ton lorry with a 100Kw Diesel Generator in the back. They don't mention this very much as they travel from green project to green project but forget that is in the background of shots. Personally Id deal with your problem by putting the socko on ebay and buying something more practical my money would be on KTM or Husky

 

[Bletchleyite]

No motorbikes on trains. If you watch the latest Ewan Macgregor Charlie Boorman motorcycle series the way to deal with electric motorcycles limited range is to be accompanied by a Diesel 18 ton lorry with a 100Kw Diesel Generator in the back. They don't mention this very much as they travel from green project to green project but forget that is in the background of shots. Personally Id deal with your problem by putting the socko on ebay and buying something more practical my money would be on KTM or Husky

The way to deal with electric motorcycle range is to use them for what they're intended to be used for - short-distance urban transport. Take the train and hire one at your destination.

I can't imagine that riding a motorcycle up the M1 in the tipping rain for 3 hours is anyone's idea of fun.

 

[paul1609]

The way to deal with electric motorcycle range is to use them for what they're intended to be used for - short-distance urban transport. Take the train and hire one at your destination.

I can't imagine that riding a motorcycle up the M1 in the tipping rain for 3 hours is anyone's idea of fun.

Cant really think of any circumstances where I'd take the train and then hire a motorbike that had a range of 50 miles (OP) tbh.
I don't actually mind riding in the rain and Im rather fortunate where I live that there aren't really any destinations that I'd use the M1 for anything more than a few miles.

 

[Andrew1395]

We used to regularly load motorbikes onto trains at Euston. Certainly up to the late 1980s. It was a favourite excuse to the AOC for a late departure “ assisting old lady load motorbike into the BG”

 

[83A]

I can't imagine that riding a motorcycle up the M1 in the tipping rain for 3 hours is anyone's idea of fun.

No such thing as bad weather only bad kit.

I’ve toured on a motorcycle for years across UK and Europe. I have a decent Goretex style bike suit, the bike has a screen and nice big tank to deflect the elements, plus heated grips. I’ve ridden in some dire weather and turned up toasty and dry.

Besides whatever the weather, being on a bike beats being stuck in a car. Although of course being on a train beats a car as well.

 

[83A]

KTM or Husky

Same bikes these days. Just different colours

 

[Robnw67]

No motorbikes on trains. If you watch the latest Ewan Macgregor Charlie Boorman motorcycle series the way to deal with electric motorcycles limited range is to be accompanied by a Diesel 18 ton lorry with a 100Kw Diesel Generator in the back. They don't mention this very much as they travel from green project to green project but forget that is in the background of shots. Personally Id deal with your problem by putting the socko on ebay and buying something more practical my money would be on KTM or Husky

I've got rid of all my gas burners and doubt that I'll ever go back. I was just curious to see if the rules had relaxed any since I last looked into it. Got a Zero FXS too if I want something a little more sprightly!

 

[paul1609]

I've got rid of all my gas burners and doubt that I'll ever go back. I was just curious to see if the rules had relaxed any since I last looked into it. Got a Zero FXS too if I want something a little more sprightly!

Your electric bikes are probably burning more gas than my single cylinder KTM. Electric generation today in the UK is currently 51% Gas, 3% Coal, 7% biomass. Generation and transmission losses down to 230 volts are around 12%. Ive not seen any battery charging efficiencies for motorcycles but for EV cars they are generally in the range 60 to 75% (230 volt to energy at the wheels). A single cylinder gasoline engine is a lot more efficient than an electric motorcycle.

 

[Robnw67]

Your electric bikes are probably burning more gas than my single cylinder KTM. Electric generation today in the UK is currently 51% Gas, 3% Coal, 7% biomass. Generation and transmission losses down to 230 volts are around 12%. Ive not seen any battery charging efficiencies for motorcycles but for EV cars they are generally in the range 60 to 75% (230 volt to energy at the wheels). A single cylinder gasoline engine is a lot more efficient than an electric motorcycle.

I didn't buy my electric motorbikes for any environmental reason. They just suit my life better than a petrol powered bike. Battery efficiency for a car is currently 89%+ if you only count tank to wheel efficiency. The Otto cycle upon which a fossil fuel burning engine works can only be approx 39% efficient because 60+% of the energy is released overboard as low grade (unrecoverable) heat. Motorcycles are probably worse than 89% because of the dreadful aerodynamics - but again. I didn't buy my vehicles for any environmental concern. If you count well - to wheel efficiency - then the ev wins out even more because I can drive further on the electricity required to make one gallon on fuel than any petrol car can drive on that gallon. If you take into account the oil drilling, shipment, refining, and distribution energy - then there is no way a fossil fuel powered vehicle can get any where near the efficiencies of electrified transport. Any rail aficionado should know that. But AGAIN I didn't buy any of my vehicles for any kind of efficiency reasons. If I want efficient transport, I'll use one of my bicycles.

Car batteries aren't 230V, they're either 400V or 800V DC which means no doubt there are efficiency losses in any transmission and distribution grid but, just to emphasise a point - I didn't buy my vehicles for efficiency nor environmental reasons.

A single cylinder anything-burning engine cannot (even theoretically) approach the efficiencies of batteries and electric motors. But then again I have never known anyone buy a motorcycle because of its efficiency. Perhaps you're the first.

 

[Shimbleshanks]

We used to regularly load motorbikes onto trains at Euston. Certainly up to the late 1980s. It was a favourite excuse to the AOC for a late departure “ assisting old lady load motorbike into the BG”

Back in the 1970s, there was an old boy who would regularly load his motorbike (or moped) into the brake van of the DMU at Bangor station and go a few stops up the line. I think he was an ex-railwayman, so I suppose he was travelling free and it was cheaper than paying for the petrol. Those old DMU brakes were surprisingly roomy.

 

[paul1609]

I didn't buy my electric motorbikes for any environmental reason. They just suit my life better than a petrol powered bike. Battery efficiency for a car is currently 89%+ if you only count tank to wheel efficiency. The Otto cycle upon which a fossil fuel burning engine works can only be approx 39% efficient because 60+% of the energy is released overboard as low grade (unrecoverable) heat. Motorcycles are probably worse than 89% because of the dreadful aerodynamics - but again. I didn't buy my vehicles for any environmental concern. If you count well - to wheel efficiency - then the ev wins out even more because I can drive further on the electricity required to make one gallon on fuel than any petrol car can drive on that gallon. If you take into account the oil drilling, shipment, refining, and distribution energy - then there is no way a fossil fuel powered vehicle can get any where near the efficiencies of electrified transport. Any rail aficionado should know that. But AGAIN I didn't buy any of my vehicles for any kind of efficiency reasons. If I want efficient transport, I'll use one of my bicycles.

Car batteries aren't 230V, they're either 400V or 800V DC which means no doubt there are efficiency losses in any transmission and distribution grid but, just to emphasise a point - I didn't buy my vehicles for efficiency nor environmental reasons.

A single cylinder anything-burning engine cannot (even theoretically) approach the efficiencies of batteries and electric motors. But then again I have never known anyone buy a motorcycle because of its efficiency. Perhaps you're the first.

How are you charging your electric motorcycles? If its from a single phase charger at home it will be from 230 volts. The loss from the power station to your house will be on average 12% in the UK. The efficiency from the 230 volt single phase supply to the wheel depends on the manufacturer and I don't have any figures for motorcycles but for a car its generally in the region of 60 to 75%. Some manufacturers claim higher efficiency (Tesla), some when measured have been in the low 40%s (Renault). Part charging of the batteries is a lot less efficient generally. Charging from a 3 phase supply is generally more efficient. Electric vehicles generally weigh a lot more than the equivalent gas engined car so will consume more energy. A Nissan Leaf for instance weighs more than a Nissan X trail SUV.
I don't personally understand why anyone would pay £ 10 to 20k for a motorcycle with a range of 60 miles.

 

[Robnw67]

How are you charging your electric motorcycles? If its from a single phase charger at home it will be from 230 volts. The loss from the power station to your house will be on average 12% in the UK. The efficiency from the 230 volt single phase supply to the wheel depends on the manufacturer and I don't have any figures for motorcycles but for a car its generally in the region of 60 to 75%. Some manufacturers claim higher efficiency (Tesla), some when measured have been in the low 40%s (Renault). Part charging of the batteries is a lot less efficient generally. Charging from a 3 phase supply is generally more efficient. Electric vehicles generally weigh a lot more than the equivalent gas engined car so will consume more energy. A Nissan Leaf for instance weighs more than a Nissan X trail SUV.
I don't personally understand why anyone would pay £ 10 to 20k for a motorcycle with a range of 60 miles.

I don't know if I've mentioned this, but I am not concerned by efficiency. I don't understand how you can claim that a petrol engined vehicle can consume less energy, when 60% of a petrol engined vehicle's input energy is wasted overboard as heat. You can calculate the figures for your vehicles. For my car I am currently getting 5 miles per kWh. For my bike, it's more like 10 miles per kWh and whether that is good or bad has no bearing on whether I like riding it. If people want to drive a 5.7 litre V8 they will do so - regardless of whether it's less efficient than a 1 litre petrol car. If efficiency were uppermost on bikers minds, would the Triumph Rocket III exist?

Whether you personally understand it or not, my motorcycle does everything that I need it to do. It does my 15 mile commute easily. It does the 30 mile trips out that I do regularly to the various bike meets in the area. It's small, light and agile so can cut through traffic easily. I don't do touring, so refuelling en route isn't a problem. It costs peanuts to run ( about 0.3 pence per mile) and cost no more than I would have paid for a petrol bike anyway but with no maintenance, no VED and virtually no fuel cost. I would rather spend most of my money on the bike than burning it on fuel. There are no hassles with going into a petrol station, queueing up behind car drivers getting £70 fuel, a scratch card and a Bounty bar and then being asked to take off my helmet because they don't serve people if they can't see their face (possibly changed now post covid). It's quiet and doesn't disturb my neighbours at 06:30 in the morning. It's quick enough so that I can keep ahead of all the traffic that I can squeeze past, turning a 45 minute commute through town into a 25 minute commute.

I honestly don't know why people wouldn't buy one (both bikes cost less that £10k, one of them was less than £4k) for commuting. I would rather put all of my money into the bike than spending loads of money on fuel. Of course I wouldn't take one for touring but I'm not a motorcycling touring person anyway. If it does everything I need it to do, why look elsewhere?