Suggestions for the traditional InterCity services post HS2

[The Planner]

Why should Rugby keep a non-stop to Euston? It's a small, mainly industrial town with a rather empty hinterland - not much different to "Market Ketteringborough". One or two stops is fine.

Clearly a rail hub though or it wouldn't have a total of 700 car parking spaces. 75 less than Coventry, 200 more than Crewe and 150 more than Stafford

 

[HST43257]

Clearly a rail hub though or it wouldn't have a total of 700 car parking spaces. 75 less than Coventry, 200 more than Crewe and 150 more than Stafford

Not exactly a non-event, I must say.

 

[HSTEd]

Shouldn't we be taking this opportunity to simplify stopping patterns to make a service more usable and easier to understand?

Why do we even bother maintaining the LNR/ICWC split on London-Birmingham?

 

[HST43257]

Shouldn't we be taking this opportunity to simplify stopping patterns to make a service more usable and easier to understand?

Why do we even bother maintaining the LNR/ICWC split on London-Birmingham?

LNWR’s main purposes are to serve Watford, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Rugby and the Trent Valley in my view (at least for London services). AWC is there to serve the outer destinations, for example Coventry, Stoke, Chester and North Wales.

 

[HSTEd]

LNWR’s main purposes are to serve Watford, Milton Keynes, Northampton, Rugby and the Trent Valley in my view (at least for London services). AWC is there to serve the outer destinations, for example Coventry, Stoke, Chester and North Wales.

It would be cheaper to allow an easement for doubling back at Birmingham International/Interchange to reach London than it would be to maintain an ICWC service for Coventry.
Supposedly the people mover will only take six minutes to reach the Airport, let alone the conventional railway station.

(Metroisation also has the advantage of reducing necessary connection times!)

 

[HS2isgood]

That would increase Coventry fares, as International is north of Coventry, and I think would require double charge (people mover+downwards train), so I highly doubt it would be used much. Maybe you could create "via Birmingham Interchange" and via "Milton Keynes" fares from Coventry to London. I don't think anywhere else would warrant that connection.

PD: I suppose Paddington will be a valid London Terminal from HS2, it definitely should.

 

[HSTEd]

That would increase Coventry fares, as International is north of Coventry, and I think would require double charge (people mover+downwards train), so I highly doubt it would be used much. Maybe you could create "via Birmingham Interchange" and via "Milton Keynes" fares from Coventry to London. I don't think anywhere else would warrant that connection.

Well there is nothing to prevent us creating an easement allowing "Via Interchange" fares that include a ticket on the people mover is there?

 

[HS2isgood]

Well there is nothing to prevent us creating an easement allowing "Via Interchange" fares that include a ticket on the people mover is there?

No, what I mean is that not many people would change twice to do a journey that can be done directly via the WCML, I don't see a fares problem there.

And to try to sum up a bit of what will Avanti need, and the points brought up in this thread:
- Milton Keynes needs a good LD service, so it seems like it would be wise to stop everything. It also needs good service to Birmingham, Manchester, and keeping the link to Stoke would be good.
- The WCML needs to keep most current direct connections, and to serve the destination without HS2 (North Wales and, from my point of view, Blackpool too, but that's a bit more controversial) in a fast way.

I think that a 5 tph timetable would be best, keeping 2 services to Birmingham (Shrewsbury, as it would otherwise be left with no London service, and Scotland, as the HS2 Birmingham-Glasgow/Edinburgh service will not serve any stations between Wigan and Birmingham. Also, this would allow Wolverhampton to have 2 tph to London), and another three services through the Trent Valley (Chester/Holyhead, which would be the fastest one from MK to Crewe; Blackpool North and Manchester via Stoke-on-Trent; to have 2 tph Crewe in the WCML. As London-Stoke does not have a very big time advantage in HS2, I think the Stoke service should be timed to have effectively 2 tph, one on HS2 and a second on the WCML, the wait for a high-speed service wouldn't be worth the journey reduction in this case.

The other question is how to serve Rugby, Coventry and Nuneaton. (Remember that LNWR will have fasts too): they should probably all get 2 tph: in the case of Coventry, that is self-explanatory, so the Birmingham services would have 3 and 5 calls respectively (MK, Coventry, International; with one calling at Watford and Rugby too). This way, Coventry gets an express. Rugby really can be fitted in anywhere, the fast service (one stop to London) could be the Blackpool North service, with the North Wales one being the Nuneaton fast. This leaves the second Watford stop on the Manchester service, which would have two stops before Stoke, keeping a decent journey time and effectively doubling its frequency.

On timetables, both Birminghams and both Crewes should be roughly separated by 30 minutes, and both Rugby ones too. That means Nuneaton gets both Crewe services. As services should be concentrated to occupy the minimum paths possible, that leaves a service of:

:00 Euston, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Crewe, Chester (either hourly or every 2 hours to Holyhead, stops depend on what's better for the North Wales line timetable)
:03 Euston, Watford Junction, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Wolverhampton, Stafford, Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston, Oxenholme, Penrith North Lakes, Carlisle, Lockerbie and (Haymarket, Edinburgh Waverley) or (Motherwell, Glasgow Central)
:30 Euston, Milton Keynes, Nuneaton, Stafford Crewe, Warrington Bank Quay, Wigan North Western, Preston and Blackpool North
:33 Euston, Milton Keynes, Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Smethwick Galton Bridge, Wolverhampton, Telford Central, Shrewsbury
:36 Euston, Watford Junction, Milton Keynes, Rugby, Stoke-on-Trent, whichever stops to Manchester.