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Why bother with ticket checks? - learn from Korean Rail

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MKB

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I recently had the pleasure of travelling around South Korea by train. Their aggressive high-speed plans mean that within three years, 95% of their population will be within a two-hour commute of one another.

One thing (among many) that struck me was the absence of ticket checks. At first I thought they must be an incredibly trusting nation. But then I realised that checks were being carried out very discreetly between each stop by simply comparing the seats occupied in each carriage with the train manager's PDA device seat map. Provide they tally, there's no need to speak to any passengers.

Because all journeys are given a compulsory seat reservation, and can easily be changed at a ticket counter, at a machine or on-board, and because travellers actually sit in their chosen seat, this system works very well. The joy of not being woken or disturbed by the train manager throughout the journey was a hugely welcome bonus.

I daresay fare evasion due to travelling without a ticket is virtually eliminated. Checks that passengers are eligible for any discounts appear to be done at the time of ticket collection, so I guess there is still the possibility that tickets could be passed from a person eligible for a discount to one who isn't; but since Korean Rail discounting appears to be age-related only, a train manager could always challenge someone who looks to be too young/old for their discount.

It would be wonderful if our TOCs could embrace similar modern ticketing practices on at least their long-distance routes.
 
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Matt Taylor

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Before the TOCs embrace such a system I think the population of the UK needs a culture change as there is currently a huge difference in attitudes between us and the good people of SE Asia.
 

tony_mac

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I think we are some time away from compulsory reservations, unless you can book standing spots in the vestibules too.

I don't think our society is ordered enough to expect everyone to sit in their assigned seat without their being problems. We can't even manage to keep our quiet coaches free of mobile phone conversations!

Do you have large, loud, drunken groups on Korean trains causing misery to everyone nearby?

I do, however, wonder if something could be done when a ticket check is made - so that the staff know when to check each seat again.

Sounds like a nice trip, though!
 

Deerfold

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I do, however, wonder if something could be done when a ticket check is made - so that the staff know when to check each seat again.

Sounds like a nice trip, though!

Quick tick on the face with an indelible marker?
Cross the next day...
 

embers25

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The system does work really well in South Korea and you can reserve right up to the minute of departure. I travelled on the KTX with a standing ticket and when a seat became free I sat in it and sure enough the guard immediately came and checked my ticket. Very efficient. Also as you mentioned to exchange of reservations is easy meaning you can switch route mid trip on the Korea Pass despite needing reservations. I noticed the kids going to school near Busan didn't reserve and just moved seats when someone showed up. If only unreserved people moved from reserved seats as easily over here. It's also wierd being over there and travelling on either a TGV or 125 lookalikes! The new TGV's tho look very sleek but only seem to run at night.
 

mrcheek

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In South Korea (and other Asian countries), everyone does as they are told, and sits where they are supposed to.

In Britain, this does not generally happen. People without reservations sit in seats clearly marked "reserved". And those with reservations regularly decide to sit somewhere else.

Also, some of us (you know, those of us with ALRs for example), like to be able to just jump on a random train and find a seat, without having to reserve in advance.

In short, this aint gonna work over here. Koreans are not Brits. They dont cause trouble on trains. And we dont eat dogs.
 

Greenback

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I would not welcome compulsory reservations. I don;t think the Korean way sounds suitable for this country.
 

Capybara

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What Greenback said. I want to be able to get on a train and choose my own seat when I get on, not before. And I want to be able to move to another seat if I so wish. That's what train travel should be like.
 

Greenback

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Yes, we have moved too far towards pre booking as it is. One of the joys of train travel is being able to turn up and go, even if you sometimes have to be a lottery winner to afford it!
 

MKB

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One of the joys of train travel is being able to turn up and go, ...

Of course the beauty of the Korean system is that you can do exactly that, just turn up and go. I had a reservation for an evening train but changed my mind, turned up at lunchtime and got a seat on the next train. Took 2 minutes to sort out. You frequently can't book a ticket in that time in the UK. And I knew I'd not been standing once on board.

Also worth pointing out that we Brits don't seem to have any more problem than any other nation in sitting in our assigned seats on planes, Eurostar and in theatres. Once we know that's how the system works, we generally tend to get on with it.
 

Deerfold

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Of course the beauty of the Korean system is that you can do exactly that, just turn up and go. I had a reservation for an evening train but changed my mind, turned up at lunchtime and got a seat on the next train. Took 2 minutes to sort out. You frequently can't book a ticket in that time in the UK. And I knew I'd not been standing once on board.

Also worth pointing out that we Brits don't seem to have any more problem than any other nation in sitting in our assigned seats on planes, Eurostar and in theatres. Once we know that's how the system works, we generally tend to get on with it.

I didn't sit in my assigned seat last time I went to Brussels...though it did mean I had to catch the lady with my special meal!
 

Capybara

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Of course the beauty of the Korean system is that you can do exactly that, just turn up and go. I had a reservation for an evening train but changed my mind, turned up at lunchtime and got a seat on the next train. Took 2 minutes to sort out. You frequently can't book a ticket in that time in the UK. And I knew I'd not been standing once on board.

But I want to get on the train and choose my seat when I am on it. I don't want to find myself next to a bloke with wide arms and a laptop, or a family with noisy children, or a stag/hen party. I want to be able to move to another seat or carriage if I want to at some stage in the journey. I don't want to book my seat.
 

Greenback

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Of course the beauty of the Korean system is that you can do exactly that, just turn up and go. I had a reservation for an evening train but changed my mind, turned up at lunchtime and got a seat on the next train. Took 2 minutes to sort out. You frequently can't book a ticket in that time in the UK. And I knew I'd not been standing once on board.

Also worth pointing out that we Brits don't seem to have any more problem than any other nation in sitting in our assigned seats on planes, Eurostar and in theatres. Once we know that's how the system works, we generally tend to get on with it.

You had a reservation in the first place though. What about those people who wake up, see it's a nice day and think 'We'll got xxxx on the train today'. How does it work for them? How long did it take to get your ticket and reservation originally? At the moment, I don't have to reserve a seat for my journeys to Swansea or Cardiff, and I don't want to!

Many cheapo airlines don't have assigned seats any more. In that respect, they are moving away from the Korean model!


But I want to get on the train and choose my seat when I am on it. I don't want to find myself next to a bloke with wide arms and a laptop, or a family with noisy children, or a stag/hen party. I want to be able to move to another seat or carriage if I want to at some stage in the journey. I don't want to book my seat.

Quite right, and you are not alone!

I don;t think our system is so broke that bit requires fixing by moving towards the Korean model. We need to move further away from it, if anything in my opinion.
 

Capybara

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And you just know that the UK rail companies would get it wrong:

'FINED FOR GOING TO THE LOO!

Retired nurse Mary Saint only wanted to spend a penny but it ended up costing her ONE HUNDRED POUNDS. The seventy year old PENSIONER found herself on the wrong SEAT when the ticket inspector came round and under the new rules .....'
 

4SRKT

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This Korean model sounds awful. Maybe it works in Korea, and bully for them. It won't work here: can't work here, and Amen to that. Luckily we're not a nation of automatons who'll just do whatever a company wants to fit an operating model designed by an anally retentive control freak. Sure, there are downsides to a non-compliant population, but on the whole it's very defintely a good thing.
 

Darandio

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The issue between the two cultures is tolerance and the Koreans are probably more tolerant and dare I say it, obedient. (no dog pun indended)

I imagine that over there, the general rule of thumb would be that if a seat is reserved, a passenger wouldn't sit in it. Does that happen here, of course not. We have all seen it. You have the intelligent minority, me included, that can work out if I can sit in a seat because the ticket above the seat or the digital display tells me I can, I know I can sit in it for x amount of stops from which, if I am continuing, I will patiently await the passenger who has reserved the seat and vacate if necessary. Quite often, they either don't get on, or end up somewhere else, probably in someone elses reserved seat. :D

You then have the other side, probably the majority, that think the simple rule is, I have bought a ticket, I have bought a seat which we know isnt the case. You see the poor people hauling the luggage on, expecting a trouble free journey, they put the luggage on the rack and take their coats over their arms, checking the ticket constantly and watching the seat numbers until they arrive at "their" seat, to be confronted by an ignorant oaf who once prompted, shrugs his shoulders, or quite often in my case, looks back at his laptop and grunts.

I bet a load of you have either had, or seen the same situation. So what do you do, you cannot find another seat for you and your party, thats why Norbert is sat there in the first place and wont move. You look for the TM and if you were on NXEC, you get the helpless guy who wont cause a stir, he just says "I'll see whats available in First Class" so you either end up getting a free upgrade, or he comes back and says "Stay here until the next stop, I'll try and sort out a seat for you". Not once does he confront the guy in the wrong.

Only in this country.
 

GodAtum

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When I've travel on FGW I dont tend to sit in my reserved seat as i like the single seat in the !st section of the buffet car.
 
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