A quick poll about taking the vaccine.

[Bantamzen]

Then I politely suggest you may not know what you're talking about. After barely being able to move for a month, and spending a lot of that time really struggling to breathe, my opinion changed somewhat. Flu has never done that to me. We need to stop with the comparisons with flu. This is a much bigger deal.

I can assure you that flu can be just as bad, indeed can even be fatal to even young people, my little sister included who died at the age of 30 from it.

 

[yorkie]

I can assure you that flu can be just as bad, indeed can even be fatal to even young people, my little sister included who died at the age of 30 from it.

For young people there is no doubt influenza is a worse virus. Even though we have vaccines for influenza, around 12 children under the age of 15 die from influenza in a typical year, in England alone.

The burden of influenza in England by age and clinical risk group: A statistical analysis to inform vaccine policy

To assess the burden of influenza by age and clinical status and use this to inform evaluations of the age and risk-based influenza vaccination policy…

www.sciencedirect.com

Mortality in children under 15 years was low with around 12 influenza-attributable deaths in hospital per year in England

2020 saw fewer deaths among the 0-14 age group in England than any other year, but has been a terrible year for mental and physical well-being; the vaccine will ensure that as a society we stop mistreating, neglecting and placing huge burdens on young people, who are under considerably more threat from Covid restrictions than Covid itself.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==

I meant uk based not worldwide but yes I know of a few but still have had it but oddly never speak of side effects but I guess that’ll create a panic? As I have had it but edited my post earlier in thread to make people aware.


Regarding this whole personal choice, I didn’t feel I had a choice, but because job I am in but it doesn’t help when rumours are circulated about not having it you may lose job etc, but yet one of the conspiracies you hear about ie passports though denied for now seems to becoming to fruition. Again wish to point out I look at things with an open mind isn’t it scary what is denied becoming truth or do we all stick our heads in the sand?

Just to add I like the fact that I agree with some on here who wish not too but that is their own choice and to go one step further I do not find it selfish at all however the attitude of some on here in terms of calling some selfish seems to me you all judging regardless of their own situation, why not some of you look at yourselves in the mirror and think for yourselves than always being told what to think for a change?

I respect this but I have listed to many experts and gone in with an open mind and concluded the vaccine is the best solution. The amount of safety data these vaccines have us huge.

Have you listened to any of the interviews I have linked to in recent weeks? If so did they provide you with any reassurance?

 

[kez19]

For young people there is no doubt influenza is a worse virus. Even though we have vaccines for influenza, around 12 children under the age of 15 die from influenza in a typical year, in England alone.

The burden of influenza in England by age and clinical risk group: A statistical analysis to inform vaccine policy

To assess the burden of influenza by age and clinical status and use this to inform evaluations of the age and risk-based influenza vaccination policy…

www.sciencedirect.com

2020 saw fewer deaths among the 0-14 age group in England than any other year, but has been a terrible year for mental and physical well-being; the vaccine will ensure that as a society we stop mistreating, neglecting and placing huge burdens on young people, who are under considerably more threat from Covid restrictions than Covid itself.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Mar 2021 ==


I respect this but I have listed to many experts and gone in with an open mind and concluded the vaccine is the best solution. The amount of safety data these vaccines have us huge.

Have you listened to any of the interviews I have linked to in recent weeks? If so did they provide you with any reassurance?

I haven’t yet but there was no reassurance for me when this was given out that’s been my problem with this from the outset, feels more you have had to take a gamble but at same time it doesn’t help elsewhere ie media stirring the pot into scaring the living daylights out of people to take the vaccine.

It hasn’t help me on a personal level that there was nothing said before the rollout but on the other all my other colleagues felt the same as I did/do but as I say we had no choice.

It’s the same as some have mentioned in terms of a rushed feel for the vaccine, had it been say couple years time I probably would be more forward for it but this for me just doesn’t feel right, as I say above from the outset.

The other point I’ll make is regards to taking this and normality returning, do we honestly believe this will happen? Seems every time goalposts are moved, so for me how am I meant to trust what our politicians say let alone anyone else? Truth can be stranger than fiction but as I say I believe in personal choice so I’ll leave it at that.

 

[yorkie]

Yes normality will return; the virus is expected to continue to circulate (as seasonal endemic respiratory viruses do) but the vast majority of people will have excellent immunity to it.

 

[LAX54]

I can assure you that flu can be just as bad, indeed can even be fatal to even young people, my little sister included who died at the age of 30 from it.

My wife had flu a few years ago, that ended up with a 999 trip to the Hospital, ICU and Pneumonia, it was touch and go for a few days, flu can be just as bad as C19.
The ONS say that 50K died of flu in 2017/18

 

[Domh245]

I probably won't get the jab. I'm 27 and healthy, will be one of the last to get offered it.
I don't lose sleep over the flu and don't lose sleep over covid. Both could do me damage, the chances of that are low, and I'm not offered a free flu jab each year.

I say probably won't have it, I might still.

I certainly won't have it if vaccine passports are still on the agenda come June/July time.

I really don't understand this point of view. Yes Covid is minimal risk to us (young people) anyway, but given the opportunity to have a vaccine that further reduces the already slim likeliness of getting a severe case of covid, why wouldn't you?

Whilst the benefits of us getting a covid vaccine are practically negligible, as we are being offered them free of charge* and there are no significant downsides to having a vaccine, why on earth wouldn't you have one?


*not necessarily true of course - we'll be paying for these vaccines and the rest of the response the rest of our working lives, but you won't be able to get a refund on your tax bill for not having had a vaccine

 

[westv]

I should have booked a slot as soon as I got my letter on Friday. When I looked then there were loads of dates and times in the local centre from 24/3.
Looked again yesterday evening and now the closest with anything is 35 miles away! I'll keep checking.

 

[Cdd89]

RE those concerned about “long term effects” of the vaccine:

Surely there is an equal chance that Covid itself has unknown long-term effects that could reveal themselves in a few years’ time?

To be clear I don’t think that is likely (of either Covid or the vaccine) - but I don’t see how that counterbalancing risk can just be waved away. The vaccine is so effective that, if you haven’t already had Covid, and bearing in mind that anyone unvaccinated is likely to contract Covid at some point if they are vulnerable, it’s pretty much a straight choice between vaccine long term effects or Covid long term effects.

Bearing the above in mind, I’d propose that the “long term” effects argument should be a wash and some other justification required for not wanting the vaccine, to counteract the benefits of not getting sick at a time inconvenient to you and needing to self isolate.

 

[AntoniC]

Had my AstraZenecas shot last Saturday morning with no immedate side effects ..
However yesterday afternoon I got aches ans chills and felt immensely hungry, thirsty and tired and couldnt watch TV so I had an early night.
I had a very broken sleep because I kept on waking up as I was sweating.
This morning I feel a bit better.
I still think taking the vaccine was the right thing for me to do.

 

[AlterEgo]

I really don't understand this point of view. Yes Covid is minimal risk to us (young people) anyway, but given the opportunity to have a vaccine that further reduces the already slim likeliness of getting a severe case of covid, why wouldn't you?

This isn't why I had the vaccine. I had it because I considered it the socially responsible thing to do at almost zero risk or cost to me - another brick in the wall and all that. I'm not scared of the disease but a lot of people certainly do find it very scary.

 

[Tomp94]

I really don't understand this point of view. Yes Covid is minimal risk to us (young people) anyway, but given the opportunity to have a vaccine that further reduces the already slim likeliness of getting a severe case of covid, why wouldn't you?

Whilst the benefits of us getting a covid vaccine are practically negligible, as we are being offered them free of charge* and there are no significant downsides to having a vaccine, why on earth wouldn't you have one?


*not necessarily true of course - we'll be paying for these vaccines and the rest of the response the rest of our working lives, but you won't be able to get a refund on your tax bill for not having had a vaccine

because the risk is small. I'm only in favour of having vaccines for viruses that'll do me harm

 

[AlterEgo]

because the risk is small. I'm only in favour of having vaccines for viruses that'll do me harm

Just out of interest, how do you rationalise that against the fact that if you, and millions of others, do decide to be vaccinated, you'll be helping to protect elderly, vulnerable and disabled people?

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

because the risk is small. I'm only in favour of having vaccines for viruses that'll do me harm

I highly doubt I’m the only one who considers that a rather selfish mindset, considering the jab offered to you will do you more good than harm, will contribute to the return of normality and thus preservation of mental wellbeing, and also that we are lucky to have the vaccine in large supply where other countries are unable to access the vaccine due to either lack of finance or poor leadership.

 

[Domh245]

because the risk is small. I'm only in favour of having vaccines for viruses that'll do me harm

But for the sake of two hours, a numb arm, and potentially some mild flu like symptoms (that you'd have had if you caught covid) it reduces from small to even smaller, and in a controlled way. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all worried about catching covid (though having barely ventured out anywhere in the last year, odds of me catching it are slim!) but given the opportunity to reduce this risk even further at no cost and mild inconvenience, I just don't see why people wouldn't take that option. I can understand being concerned or hesitant about the the vaccines themselves, but this 'my risk is low enough already' view I struggle to comprehend.

And as @AlterEgo points out, there's the wider societal aspect of it. Even with high uptake and efficacy, there'll still be people who slip through the net so to speak - whilst I certainly won't entertain any sort of restrictions to 'protect' these people, the more people who have the vaccine, the lower the community prevalence will be, the less likely these people are to catch covid (with consequential likelihoods of hospitalisation & death)

 

[dan5324]

Over twenty million have taken it and I haven’t heard of a single COVID vaccine-caused death yet.

As I said, mid term snd long term effects are completely unknown at this stage. Even manufacturers have basically admitted as such, hence the immunity from any legal issues should it go horrible wrong in future.
And many have “died from it” if we use the same metric that is used for measuring Covid deaths ie “death within 28 days of having a jab”.

 

[Domh245]

As I said, mid term snd long term effects are completely unknown at this stage. Even manufacturers have basically admitted as such, hence the immunity from any legal issues should it go horrible wrong in future.

We can be reasonably confident though that mid & long term side effects will be non-existent. Vaccines are merely 'messengers' - they don't actively affect your cells, just deliver proteins to your immune system and let it do the work, we can't rule out long term effects but we can be fairly certain that they won't come to anything. Of course, for full parity we should also acknowledge we don't know the mid and long term effects of catching covid...

And many have “died from it” if we use the same metric that is used for measuring Covid deaths ie “death within 28 days of having a jab”.

Yes but unlike deaths from covid, were around 89% of them are actually attributable to covid being the underlying cause of death, not one 460 deaths reported under the yellow card scheme has occurred because of the vaccine

The MHRA has received 212 UK reports of suspected ADRs to the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine in which the patient died shortly after vaccination, 244 reports for the Oxford University/AstraZeneca vaccine and 4 where the brand of vaccine was unspecified. The majority of these reports were in elderly people or people with underlying illness. Usage of the AstraZeneca has increased rapidly and as such, so has reporting of fatal events with a temporal association with vaccination however, this does not indicate a link between vaccination and the fatalities reported. Review of individual reports and patterns of reporting does not suggest the vaccine played a role in the death.

 

[dan5324]

We can be reasonably confident though that mid & long term side effects will be non-existent. Vaccines are merely 'messengers' - they don't actively affect your cells, just deliver proteins to your immune system and let it do the work, we can't rule out long term effects but we can be fairly certain that they won't come to anything. Of course, for full parity we should also acknowledge we don't know the mid and long term effects of catching covid...



Yes but unlike deaths from covid, were around 89% of them are actually attributable to covid being the underlying cause of death, not one 460 deaths reported under the yellow card scheme has occurred because of the vaccine

With all due respect but fairly certain isn’t really good enough for a irreversible medical procedure for a virus that barely affects the vast majority of the populace.

 

[87electric]

I highly doubt I’m the only one who considers that a rather selfish mindset, considering the jab offered to you will do you more good than harm, will contribute to the return of normality and thus preservation of mental wellbeing, and also that we are lucky to have the vaccine in large supply where other countries are unable to access the vaccine due to either lack of finance or poor leadership.

You need to understand that human beings have a universal right of choice, especially when it comes to medicine. Coercion, from any quarters, is a violation of free will. Everybody should be allowed to make their own decisions according to their own circumstances, be it health, religious or whatever. Do you still think that is selfish? Empathy needs a return to human values as it is sorely lacking.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

You need to understand that human beings have a universal right of choice, especially when it comes to medicine. Coercion, from any quarters, is a violation of free will. Everybody should be allowed to make their own decisions according to their own circumstances, be it health, religious or whatever. Do you still think that is selfish? Empathy needs a return to human values as it is sorely lacking.

What should I have empathy for? People who do not want to subject themselves to the awful and horrendous risks of taking the vaccine? Except - there is no risk. It has been tested vigorously and approved by the UK, and twenty million have already taken it. I see absolutely reason as to why it is against human rights to suggest it is the right thing to do to take the vaccine - I have not even called for it to be mandated, although I think it should be.

Mandating the vaccine for international travel, or travel on public transport, or going to shops - is no different to mandating face masks if you think about it. I like the idea of proposed vaccine passports.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The other point I’ll make is regards to taking this and normality returning, do we honestly believe this will happen? Seems every time goalposts are moved, so for me how am I meant to trust what our politicians say let alone anyone else? Truth can be stranger than fiction but as I say I believe in personal choice so I’ll leave it at that.

Come on. This overly skeptical almost conspiracy theory like thinking does nobody any good and we all know that we will actually return to normal, its just a matter of time. Any claim that we won't is just silly and is verging on conspiracy theory thought.

 

[Journeyman]

With all due respect but fairly certain isn’t really good enough for a irreversible medical procedure for a virus that barely affects the vast majority of the populace.

Can we just put this nonsense to bed, please? The alternative to vaccinations is permanent lockdowns, and they affect all of us.

 

[dan5324]

Can we just put this nonsense to bed, please? The alternative to vaccinations is permanent lockdowns, and they affect all of us.

Because sage says so? The virus isn’t locking us down. Nor should it cause us to be locked down. It’s politicians and scientists that are doing the locking down! They are even contemplating locking down for bad flu seasons next winter ffs!

You vaccinate the elderly and vulnerable. And OFFER it to any bedwetter that may want it. Coercing young healthy people into having it is utter madness

 

[Bantamzen]

Can we just put this nonsense to bed, please? The alternative to vaccinations is permanent lockdowns, and they affect all of us.

Nope, lockdowns are political decisions. They are not the only alternative.

 

[Domh245]

With all due respect but fairly certain isn’t really good enough for a irreversible medical procedure for a virus that barely affects the vast majority of the populace.

But of course, the long term risks of covid are entirely acceptable...

"Fairly certain" is probably also a misspeak on my behalf (and science generally) - the vast scientific consensus is that there's no mechanism where vaccines could cause long term effects to appear out of the blue years later. We can't say it's 100% certain until you've waited out that time frame, but clearly waiting that out is a non-starter

 

[dan5324]

But of course, the long term risks of covid are entirely acceptable...

"Fairly certain" is probably also a misspeak on my behalf (and science generally) - the vast scientific consensus is that there's no mechanism where vaccines could cause long term effects to appear out of the blue years later. We can't say it's 100% certain until you've waited out that time frame, but clearly waiting that out is a non-starter

And how many people on average suffer long term from COVID? Post viral syndrome is nothing new whether it’s flu, norovirus or Covid. Again, it’s still a small risk.

 

[Bertie the bus]

You need to understand that human beings have a universal right of choice, especially when it comes to medicine. Coercion, from any quarters, is a violation of free will. Everybody should be allowed to make their own decisions according to their own circumstances, be it health, religious or whatever. Do you still think that is selfish? Empathy needs a return to human values as it is sorely lacking.

I totally believe the vaccine should be voluntary but I also believe that people who don’t have it have a duty to accept the consequences of their decision. Vaccine passports being required in certain situations look like a real possibility so if people decide to decline it then they have to live with the chance they might be excluded from certain activities. Empathy goes both ways. You can’t say people should show empathy towards you and then ignore the concerns of people who think you pose a risk to them, their customers or their business and exclude you. To do so smacks of someone who believes in personal rights but not responsibilities.

 

[Domh245]

And how many people on average suffer long term from COVID? Post viral syndrome is nothing new whether it’s flu, norovirus or Covid. Again, it’s still a small risk.

I'm not talking about post viral fatigue - I'm talking about things like lung scarring (4% of patients regardless of severity according to this study) & heart damage. It's not clear how or if age and pre-existing conditions were a contributory factor in these (they probably were) but seeing the stories around perfectly healthy young athletes who've suffered severe damage (exception not the rule, granted, which is why they're newsworthy) does make you realise it's not impossible to be be stuck hard with it.

I'm not disputing that the risk of long term impacts from covid are small, but the risk of long term effects from a vaccine are even smaller. I'd almost certainly be fine if I caught covid, but the likelihood of being fine is vastly increased by having a vaccine

 

[nlogax]

but I also believe that people who don’t have it have a duty to accept the consequences of their decision.

Absolutely correct. Taking full responsibility and acceptance that our actions - or indeed inaction - have personal consequences should be a key part of how we get out of this situation on a permanent basis. Seems to me that's been lost along the way, somehow.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I don't get why people are so bothered by what other people might choose in respect of taking the vaccine.

"I don't want it" should be perfectly respectable.

It's your body, and your choice... however you only need a basic understanding of epidemiology to see the harm that can be done by large sections of the population not having a vaccine that their body can in fact cope with. If you were only risking your own health by choosing not to be vaccinated, I'd have no issue with it whatsoever. Unfortunately that isn't the case. There's a reason horrible diseases like measles are making a comeback after being almost eradicated. That reason is misinformed and/or selfish people. Nobody can force you to have it, and I'd be uncomfortable with it being made compulsory, but you can't force me to agree with the choice you've made in that case.

As I said previously, when first offered the vaccine my gut reaction was not to have it yet, thinking that my dose could go to someone more vulnerable than myself. However that isn't how the distribution works, so by delaying my own vaccination I wouldn't be helping anyone, just adding to the list of "refuseniks".

 

[dan5324]

It's your body, and your choice... however you only need a basic understanding of epidemiology to see the harm that can be done by large sections of the population not having a vaccine that their body can in fact cope with. If you were only risking your own health by choosing not to be vaccinated, I'd have no issue with it whatsoever. Unfortunately that isn't the case. There's a reason horrible diseases like measles are making a comeback after being almost eradicated. That reason is misinformed and/or selfish people. Nobody can force you to have it, and I'd be uncomfortable with it being made compulsory, but you can't force me to agree with the choice you've made in that case.

As I said previously, when first offered the vaccine my gut reaction was not to have it yet, thinking that my dose could go to someone more vulnerable than myself. However that isn't how the distribution works, so by delaying my own vaccination I wouldn't be helping anyone, just adding to the list of "refuseniks".

Eh? You’re talking like the vaccine stops transmission. It doesn’t....