Oyster Card / National rail interaction question

[PhilipW]

Can I take this example:

I have a monthly Oyster Season ticket which includes Clapham Junction in its zonal range.

I wish to travel to Southampton for the day.

Can I go to Waterloo, buy a day return from Clapham Junction to Southampton and then travel on any train to Southampton as long as it stops at Clapham Junction.

So at Waterloo, I use my Oyser to get onto the platform. At Clapham stop, I just stay on the train and then show my National rail ticket from then on. The opposite on the way back.

I ask this because I am uncertain what will happen because my Oyster will have only been scanned once on each journey, no checkout on the outward journey and no check in on the inward journey.

While obviously this is an attempt to save money, it is not an attempt to evade money or cheat anyone. At all times I will on a train for a journey for which I have a valid ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Why do you think the train needs to call at Clapham Junction (CLJ)?

You have a Zones 1-2 Travelcard Season ticket? If so, the train does not need to call at CLJ.

A ticket from Boundary Zone 2 is the same price as from CLJ, this would allow use on non-stop trains if a Day Travelcard was held.

There is no need for the ticket to be 'scanned'. If on-board staff wish to scan it, they can do so if they have the means. If they do not, that's not your problem.

 

[PhilipW]

Thanks Yorkie. Glad to hear what you say.

I just assumed that the train had to stop at Clapham Junction if I had a ticket from there.

My worry was that even with a monthly season Oysetrcard, there would not be both an in/out scan for each journey leg. Glad to hear my fears are unfounded.

There again it just goes to show how confusing ticketing rules can be, even for those on this forum who probably know more than the average traveller.

 

[yorkie]

When using a Season loaded on Oyster, touching in/out has no effect (other than to check your ticket is valid). No money is deducted from your card when you touch in within the zones your ticket is valid for. The only time touching out is important is if you are using a PAYG journey, or a joint Season/PAYG journey e.g. if you wanted to go to Wimbledon on a Z 1-2 Travelcard, you would need to first load an OEP before touching in, then touch out at Wimbledon. But if you are using your Travelcard Season as a Travelcard only and not using PAYG then you need not worry about touching in/out.

19. Using a combination of tickets
You may use two or more tickets for one journey as long as together they cover the entire
journey and one of the following applies:
(a) they are both Zonal Tickets (unless special conditions prohibit their use);
(b) the train you are in calls at a station where you change from one
ticket to another; or
(c) one of the tickets is a Season Ticket (which for this purpose does not include
Season Tickets or travel passes issued on behalf of a passenger transport
executive or local authority) or a leisure travel pass, and the other ticket(s) is/are not.

So someone doing Waterloo to Southampton with a Day Travelcard should get a ticket from Boundary Zone 2, to comply with (a) and then they can go through CLJ non-stop. Someone with a Travelcard Season doesn't need to worry about the train calling as their Season complies with (c) and can go through CLJ non-stop. Someone with London Terminals - CLJ + CLJ - Southampton point-to-point tickets needs to call at CLJ.

Brighton - Southampton Not London is a rather useful ticket, valid as defined in the Routeing Guide via Clapham Jn on maps LB + WX.

 

[paul1609]

When using a Season loaded on Oyster, touching in/out has no effect (other than to check your ticket is valid). No money is deducted from your card when you touch in within the zones your ticket is valid for. The only time touching out is important is if you are using a PAYG journey, or a joint Season/PAYG journey e.g. if you wanted to go to Wimbledon on a Z 1-2 Travelcard, you would need to first load an OEP before touching in, then touch out at Wimbledon. But if you are using your Travelcard Season as a Travelcard only and not using PAYG then you need not worry about touching in/out.



So someone doing Waterloo to Southampton with a Day Travelcard should get a ticket from Boundary Zone 2, to comply with (a) and then they can go through CLJ non-stop. Someone with a Travelcard Season doesn't need to worry about the train calling as their Season complies with (c) and can go through CLJ non-stop. Someone with London Terminals - CLJ + CLJ - Southampton point-to-point tickets needs to call at CLJ.

Brighton - Southampton Not London is a rather useful ticket, valid as defined in the Routeing Guide via Clapham Jn on maps LB + WX.

Make the most of it I understand this ticket will be withdrawn in January

 

[yorkie]

I don't see how they can withdraw the ticket.

The SVR is a protected fare.

I asked a certain person who uses this ticket a lot (you know him as he was sat with you on that railtour a few weeks ago ) and he is quite sure the ticket is safe and can't be touched. Time will tell...

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't see how they can withdraw the ticket.

The SVR is a protected fare.

The SVR isn't always a protected fare within the NSE area - for many flows it didn't exist.

But anyway, the goalposts have moved. Altering the routeing for Brighton to Southampton to reflect the fact there's a 7 day direct SN service from January is presumably legit?

So they would easily still have a SVR between Brighton and Southampton, just with a more direct routeing...

 

[paul1609]

The SVR isn't always a protected fare within the NSE area - for many flows it didn't exist.

But anyway, the goalposts have moved. Altering the routeing for Brighton to Southampton to reflect the fact there's a 7 day direct SN service from January is presumably legit?

So they would easily still have a SVR between Brighton and Southampton, just with a more direct routeing...

As SWT passenger states internal NSE SVRs are not protected. Apparently on this route its only the any permitted anytime tickets that are protected. SN introduced the route Barnham tickets when SWT pulled out of Brighton which are more or less the same price as route not london.
SWT requested that the tickets be withdrawn a year or so ago but it was delayed until the start of the Southern Sunday Southampton service.
Apparently route barnham tickets will be accepted by SWT when the coastway is blocked by engineering works.

 

[clagmonster]

As Yorkie says, this is a perfectly valid combination. I would add that you must make sure that your Oyster does not have an Oyster Extension Permit (OEP) loaded as if it does you will be charged the maximum entry fare on entry at Waterloo. If no OEP is loaded, you will be fine.
Which zones does your Travelcard cover?

 

[yorkie]

My sources indicate that, ok so the SVR itself isn't protected but the SDR (£23.40 Not London) is protected.

My sources believe that;
1) The routeing "Not London" is protected, you can't just withdraw it and force people to buy "Any Permitted" or "Barnham"
2) The mapped routes that permit travel via Clapham Jn are also protected.
3) It is not in Southern's interest to abolish this fare, and SWT cannot force them to!

 

[penaltyfines]

Why is Southampton - Brighton Not London a useful ticket?

 

[yorkie]

Why is Southampton - Brighton Not London a useful ticket?

Brighton - Southampton Not London is a rather useful ticket, valid as defined in the Routeing Guide via Clapham Jn on maps LB + WX.

 

[Traveller]

I have a monthly Oyster Season ticket which includes Clapham Junction in its zonal range.

It is not an Oyster Season ticket. It is a Travlecard Season Ticket. The medium on which it is held (Oyster or cardboard) is irrelevant. Unless you have the OEP switched on, in which case switch it off or get manually let through the barriers.

 

[penaltyfines]

Brighton - Southampton Not London is a rather useful ticket, valid as defined in the Routeing Guide via Clapham Jn on maps LB + WX.

I asked *why* is it useful?

 

[John @ home]

I asked *why* is it useful?

Yes, and yorkie explained why it is useful by pointing out that the Routeing Guide shows validity via Clapham Jn.

 

[penaltyfines]

Yes, and yorkie explained why it is useful by pointing out that the Routeing Guide shows validity via Clapham Jn.

I thought that would be a given?

Could you elaborate... As I'm not familiar with the route I wondered what this enables you to do... if you see what I mean?

 

[John @ home]

I wondered what this enables you to do

In addition to travelling between Southampton and Brighton via the West Coastway, it enables you to travel via Clapham Jn. If you're still stuck look at a map which shows railway lines and has at least Southampton, Brighton and Clapham Jn on it.

 

[paul1609]

My sources indicate that, ok so the SVR itself isn't protected but the SDR (£23.40 Not London) is protected.

My sources believe that;
1) The routeing "Not London" is protected, you can't just withdraw it and force people to buy "Any Permitted" or "Barnham"
2) The mapped routes that permit travel via Clapham Jn are also protected.
3) It is not in Southern's interest to abolish this fare, and SWT cannot force them to!

My sources believe that sn are transferring the responsibility for the fare to swt.
The existing not London fare will become a super off peak for bona fide use on connections via clapham junction on overnight trains to Brighton.

sn share of southampton to London any permitted tickets is much higher than you would expect. I wouldn't pretend to understand orcats but its to do with the number of direct trains entering the London traavelcard area.