How could the Mid-Cheshire Line be improved?

[yorksrob]

That was the original plan. Unfortunately it's been indefinitely prolonged because of the various issues at Northern and I'd be surprised if Covid hasn't finished the entire idea off

I'd say there's a reasonable chance of you getting your hourly service back, but a near-zero chance of the proposed frequency doubling this side of HS2 opening. There are some much busier lines than yourss which don't have a 20 minute service yet so I'm almost certain that won't happen in the forseeable future, and if I was in charge of the planning I'd certainly be prioritising a recast to give Heaton Chapel & Levenshulme a proper clockface service over sending an extra train down the Mid Cheshire.

I think that once the crisis is over and people come back to the railway for day to day travel, half hourly is a sensible aspiration for a decent usable local service, particularly for an area such as mid-cheshire with a good string of well-to-do towns.

 

[HSTEd]

Once HS2 is constructed to Manchester, add a chord from the south end of Manchester airport station onto the Mid Cheshire line, run the Mid Cheshire line via the Airport out of the HS2 platforms. Squares the circle of providing Airport services without using the Castlefield corridor

 

[LOL The Irony]

add a chord from the south end of Manchester airport station onto the Mid Cheshire line

That was (along with electrification) planned for this control period. Then GWML electrification & grayling happened.

 

[Ianno87]

That was (along with electrification) planned for this control period. Then GWML electrification & grayling happened.

Airport Western Link has never been in any Control Period plan.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Airport Western Link has never been in any Control Period plan.

Thanks for correcting me. I remembered reading it somewhere years ago, but when I was typing it out, it hit me that it might just be a pipe dream.

 

[Ianno87]

Thanks for correcting me. I remembered reading it somewhere years ago, but when I was typing it out, it hit me that it might just be a pipe dream.

I think the local authorities were pressing for it.

But then CP6 moved away from being a "shopping list" of enhancements in the manner CP5 was.

 

[Purple Orange]

I'd argue Hale, Altrincham & Navigation Road do a better job of serving Altrincham than the airport does. Hell, I'd go as far as to say Knutsford & Stockport do a better job than the airport in transportation terms.

I live in Wilmslow and it was a very good station to use. It was in effect the main station for heading north. But since the airport has clamped down on drop-offs, I’ve hardly used it.

 

[Metrolink]

I'd argue Hale, Altrincham & Navigation Road do a better job of serving Altrincham than the airport does. Hell, I'd go as far as to say Knutsford & Stockport do a better job than the airport in transportation terms.

It’s about convenience aswell. If I were living or staying in Altrincham and had a ticket to Manchester Airport from Leeds or Preston then I would drive or get a taxi to Altrincham from the Airport. It’s my personal preference but I used Altrincham in that the example is more about convenience. It’s also about Wythenshawe and areas with rail connection that are less served than the Airport. For example to get to Heald Green you wouldn’t arrive at the Airport from somewhere and take the effort to take (and wait) for a connecting train to Heald Green - it’s pointless.

 

[sjm77]

They had issues with tight turns which was supposedly fixed before launch, so it may be that rearing its head again.

Well in that case my initial thought was the 15mph curve to join the tram alignment at Navigation Road. However, it was stated earlier the 195s are prohibited specifically between Hale and Mickle Trafford. To me this implies that Stockport - Hale might be OK!

 

[Isaiah]

Well in that case my initial thought was the 15mph curve to join the tram alignment at Navigation Road. However, it was stated earlier the 195s are prohibited specifically between Hale and Mickle Trafford. To me this implies that Stockport - Hale might be OK!

My usual route is from Hale to Stockport so I wouldn't mind this at all.

 

[LOL The Irony]

However, it was stated earlier the 195s are prohibited specifically between Hale and Mickle Trafford.

That'll be the road bridge just south of Hale then, which = guaging issues.

 

[zwk500]

Well in that case my initial thought was the 15mph curve to join the tram alignment at Navigation Road. However, it was stated earlier the 195s are prohibited specifically between Hale and Mickle Trafford. To me this implies that Stockport - Hale might be OK!

Stockport-Hale is indeed cleared for 195s

That'll be the road bridge just south of Hale then, which = guaging issues.

It's possible that Northern just didn't ask for south of Hale to be cleared, as there's a crossover to allow reversals back towards Manchester. But yes, that bridge does look fairly tight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2021 ==

A test run to Chester & back was done last Autumn but I haven't heard anything since.

So I'm guessing this was established during the test run?

Did the test run to Chester definitely go via this route? Because normally the train is assessed in a software package, using data gathered by the Structure Gauging Train and a model provided by the operator/constructor. Actual test runs for gauging are not carried out until there's a fair degree of confidence it won't hit anything (for obvious reasons). If it did run through Northwich, that suggests the clearance issue is more paperwork than structures (after all, it could only have got under the bridge if it fitted).

 

[LOL The Irony]

Did the test run to Chester definitely go via this route?

Yes I saw it.

 

[Watershed]

If it did run through Northwich, that suggests the clearance issue is more paperwork than structures (after all, it could only have got under the bridge if it fitted).

It might be OK at low speed, but at line speed (60mph) the dynamic envelope might be too tight.

 

[zwk500]

It might be OK at low speed, but at line speed (60mph) the dynamic envelope might be too tight.

Fair point - although if that were the case I would expect a speed restriction rather than a flat out prohibit.

 

[py_megapixel]

If all that's needed is a frequent service to Hale, then could the tram line be extended one stop down there? That would seem like a sensible solution to this problem which doesn't require squeezing more paths in on the main line.
If an extra service is desired all the way to Chester, extending Metrolink would seem a bit silly, not least because you'd then end up with Merseyrail and Metrolink serving the same station!!!

 

[Metrolink]

If all that's needed is a frequent service to Hale, then could the tram line be extended one stop down there? That would seem like a sensible solution to this problem which doesn't require squeezing more paths in on the main line.
If an extra service is desired all the way to Chester, extending Metrolink would seem a bit silly, not least because you'd then end up with Merseyrail and Metrolink serving the same station!!!

An extension of the Metrolink to Northwich/Knutsford could work with 2tph from Chester to Northwich/ Knutsford.

 

[yorksrob]

An extension of the Metrolink to Northwich/Knutsford could work with 2tph from Chester to Northwich/ Knutsford.

I think that if you ran the second Chester service to Stockport, you would gain both connections to Metrolink at Altricham and the wider railway network at Stockport.

 

[daodao]

If all that's needed is a frequent service to Hale, then could the tram line be extended one stop down there? That would seem like a sensible solution to this problem which doesn't require squeezing more paths in on the main line.
If an extra service is desired all the way to Chester, extending Metrolink would seem a bit silly, not least because you'd then end up with Merseyrail and Metrolink serving the same station!!!

An extension of the Metrolink to Northwich/Knutsford could work with 2tph from Chester to Northwich/ Knutsford.

Altrincham is the natural terminus for Metrolink. Extending the service beyond there requires the complexity of tram trains and would interfere with the extensive freight traffic. It isn't worth doing so just as far as Hale, which is in any case very affluent and low density suburbia, and beyond there is the relatively empty Cheshire countryside.

 

[HST43257]

Altrincham is the natural terminus for Metrolink. Extending the service beyond there requires the complexity of tram trains and would interfere with the extensive freight traffic. It isn't worth doing so just as far as Hale, which is in any case very affluent and low density suburbia, and beyond there is the relatively empty Cheshire countryside.

What about coming round the back of the houses to the airport?

 

[daodao]

What about coming round the back of the houses to the airport?

Please clarify what you are alluding to.

 

[HST43257]

Please clarify what you are alluding to.

The Metrolink could send, perhaps, 5tph to Manchester Airport HS2 station, interchanging with HS2 and NPR as well as the proposed loop for the existing Airport Metrolink route. There’d be calls at Hale (existing station) and potentially one where the houses end. Then the tram would turn left (if coming from Altrincham) and there’d be a station at Warburton Green on the way to the Airport HS2 station.

 

[daodao]

The Metrolink could send, perhaps, 5tph to Manchester Airport HS2 station, interchanging with HS2 and NPR as well as the proposed loop for the existing Airport Metrolink route. There’d be calls at Hale (existing station) and potentially one where the houses end. Then the tram would turn left (if coming from Altrincham) and there’d be a station at Warburton Green on the way to the Airport HS2 station.

This is low density suburbia, not meriting Metrolink, and would encroach on the green belt of the Bollin Valley, which I explored last Spring when taking exercise on local footpaths during the first lockdown. It would be a roundabout route to the Airport HS2 station, and there is minimal public transport demand from Altrincham to the Airport.

TfGM has plans to resurrect the cancelled part of the phase 3b Metrolink expansion plan from about 2005, by building a line from Roundthorn via Wythenshawe Hospital, Newall Green and the planned HS2 Airport station to join up with the existing line at the current Airport station.

 

[The Planner]

Stockport-Hale is indeed cleared for 195s

It's possible that Northern just didn't ask for south of Hale to be cleared, as there's a crossover to allow reversals back towards Manchester. But yes, that bridge does look fairly tight.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 25 Feb 2021 ==


Did the test run to Chester definitely go via this route? Because normally the train is assessed in a software package, using data gathered by the Structure Gauging Train and a model provided by the operator/constructor. Actual test runs for gauging are not carried out until there's a fair degree of confidence it won't hit anything (for obvious reasons). If it did run through Northwich, that suggests the clearance issue is more paperwork than structures (after all, it could only have got under the bridge if it fitted).

It might be OK at low speed, but at line speed (60mph) the dynamic envelope might be too tight.

The Vehicle Change consultation in 2017 clears them for Stockport to Chester via Altrincham. Nothing has come out since that I have seen that says they are not.

 

[zwk500]

The Vehicle Change consultation in 2017 clears them for Stockport to Chester via Altrincham. Nothing has come out since that I have seen that says they are not.

They may well have a temporary clearance that is being renewed, but NESA is fairly clear:

 

[The Planner]

They may well have a temporary clearance that is being renewed, but NESA is fairly clear:
View attachment 91416

Not surprised, it is where the process falls over. If things aren't communicated after the fact then it ends up like this.

 

[LOL The Irony]

One slight issue, if 195s aren't cleared, what about the proposed TfW service? Will they have to keep some 175s on for this specific service? Because as far as I'm aware, all UK Civitys use the same bodyshell.

 

[Isaiah]

One slight issue, if 195s aren't cleared, what about the proposed TfW service? Will they have to keep some 175s on for this specific service? Because as far as I'm aware, all UK Civitys use the same bodyshell.

What proposed TfW service? This is the first I've heard about it.

 

[py_megapixel]

What proposed TfW service? This is the first I've heard about it.

I think one of the options for the Castlefield timetable recast is to send the TfW North Wales service via the Mid Cheshire line rather than Warrington.
As far as I'm aware it won't call at any of the stations.

 

[LOL The Irony]

As far as I'm aware it won't call at any of the stations.

It will. Northwich, Knutsford & Altrincham.