22nd February - Roadmap out of the pandemic, lifting of restrictions.

[Darandio]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

When isn't too soon? When there aren't any nightclubs left to go to?

 

[Philip]

Nightlife is a significant sub-section of the economy, and probably where a lot of the most long-term furloughed staff are.

It's not just about people being able to enjoy themselves.

You could argue they do more damage than good in general.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==

When isn't too soon? When there aren't any nightclubs left to go to?

Well Whitty has reiterated that there might be some restrictions next winter, and if that's the case then nightclubs would be the first to close down. It begs the question why they're allowed to reopen for summer when the vaccination programme won't even be finished then.

 

[Bertie the bus]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

We really don't need the introduction of the fun police. When something is legal everybody is perfectly entitled to do it whether some people think they should be doing something else instead or not.

 

[Huntergreed]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

Okay go on, why is it “far too soon”.

By this point, JCVI priority groups 1-9 (accounting for 99% of all COVID related deaths) will have almost all had both doses of the vaccine (preventing death and severe illness by a massive amount).

You think opening nightclubs will “put the NHS at risk” even then?

By this point, most of the adult population will have been vaccinated, this makes your argument even less valid.

Any restrictions whatsoever after this point prove the NHS isn’t fit for purpose, and I’m sorry but society shouldn’t take any more damage due to this.

 

[Richard Scott]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

Why? At some point we have to return to normal life, this can't keep going on. We now have vaccines that are shown to protect majority so most vulnerable people will be protected then. How many elderly people go to nightclubs as well?

 

[brad465]

You could argue they do more damage than good in general.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==


Well Whitty has reiterated that there might be some restrictions next winter, and if that's the case then nightclubs would be the first to close down. It begs the question why they're allowed to reopen for summer when the vaccination programme won't even be finished then.

I'm sure an Ibizan DJ would love to hear that (I have a colleague who's done it before as well). There are a minority of incidents yes but generally nightclubs and other nightlife are successful enough that they've been around for decades without causing any major problems. Also nightclubs tend to be frequented by younger groups less at risk to Covid effects, while those more vulnerable that they come into contact will have been vaccinated (if not already). Anyone who is concerned about the risks will just not visit anyway.

The Night Tube service introduction is proof of how big the night time economy is now, yes it's not all nightclubs, but they make up a good chunk of it.

 

[Darandio]

Well Whitty has reiterated that there might be some restrictions next winter, and if that's the case then nightclubs would be the first to close down. It begs the question why they're allowed to reopen for summer when the vaccination programme won't even be finished then.

I anticipated such an answer. I anticipated it because i've seen people elsewhere mentioning it's too soon and in the same breath they believe we've also eradicated Influenza during these measures. Therefore we should continue the same measures each winter, nightclubs and any other fun activities included.

Admit it, you don't want any of us to lead a normal life in the future.

 

[nedchester]

I anticipated such an answer. I anticipated it because i've seen people elsewhere mentioning it's too soon and in the same breath they believe we've also eradicated Influenza during these measures. Therefore we should continue the same measures each winter, nightclubs and any other fun activities included.

Admit it, you don't want any of us to lead a normal life in the future.

The fun police are definitely out in force. You cannot have fun because fun will spread coronavirus. No-one is forthwith allowed to meet others, dance, kiss, hug and perish the thought they may have sex. Nightclubs encourage this sort of debauchery!

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

The govt provide local authority data on 320 areas in England. 154 of them now have 7 day case rates below 100/100k. That was good enough for Tier 2 in old money. OK other than Devon and Cornwall there aren't that many contiguous areas currently but everyday more areas drop below the threshold yet 25.3m people are being trapped in this lockdown until all areas are below some threshold that we don't know.

 

[Freightmaster]

The fun police are definitely out in force. You cannot have fun because fun will spread coronavirus. No-one is forthwith allowed to meet others, dance, kiss, hug and perish the thought they may have sex. Nightclubs encourage this sort of debauchery!

There does seem have been a massive 'outbreak' of puritanism in this country over the past few months,
particularly amongst the younger generation, bizarrely.




MARK

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

You could argue they do more damage than good in general.

The point of the coronavirus restrictions is to "protect the NHS", not "stop people from getting a bit ill for a few days".

Unless you are suggesting the goalposts should be moved, again?

 

[nedchester]

There does seem have been a massive 'outbreak' of puritanism in this country over the past few months,
particularly amongst the younger generation, bizarrely.




MARK

More self-righteousness than puritanism............it will undoubtedly continue way beyond the 21st June............

"Look at me I'm still social distancing / wearing a face covering / not enjoying myself / lecturing people etc etc"

 

[Philip]

I anticipated such an answer. I anticipated it because i've seen people elsewhere mentioning it's too soon and in the same breath they believe we've also eradicated Influenza during these measures. Therefore we should continue the same measures each winter, nightclubs and any other fun activities included.

Admit it, you don't want any of us to lead a normal life in the future.

No, it is because the pandemic isn't over and nor will vaccination be complete at that point, both in the UK and much more so globally. We don't yet have strong data about the effects the vaccines have on transmission, nor for how long vaccine immunity lasts for. In a year's time the situation will be a lot different because we'll have much clearer data in these areas.

I would also say that it is quite likely that many in the 'nightclub' age bracket won't have been vaccinated by the time nightclubs reopen, many of these clubbers could also be flying off for for foreign holidays in the same period (if they're allowed to), probably to countries whose vaccination status is no where near the level of UK. That's another reason why it is too soon. Perhaps the latter point could be helped by enforcing strict quarantine controls when arriving at the country of holiday destination, but then you will probably argue it is an infringement of human rights!

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

If 21 June is 'no legal restrictions' then I see no reason why not. There is an emotional argument, perhaps fuelled by 12 months of project fear propaganda, in keeping them closed. But if grandad is allowed down the pub with only guidelines on distancing, why not his grandson down the nightclub?

Never been a fan of nightclubs myself, not even the ones that played my corner of the music world, but I see no reason why that should stop others enjoying them.

 

[Watershed]

I think nightclubs reopening on June 21st is far too soon. They're absolute breeding grounds for infection transmission and since vaccination won't even be finished at that point, it seems crazy that these will be opening only a month after indoor hospitality opens. There are other ways people can go out and enjoy themselves with friends over the summer.

Maybe it's too soon, maybe it's not. Either way, I see no point getting worked up about a proposed date that could easily change to be sooner or later depending on how things go.

I don't blame you personally for holding these kinds of views but it is rather symbolic of how afraid some people are. The mere idea that things that were previously considered good and normal might return is enough to scare them. I guess that's what endless lockdown and hysteria does to some.

 

[kez19]

Why? At some point we have to return to normal life, this can't keep going on. We now have vaccines that are shown to protect majority so most vulnerable people will be protected then. How many elderly people go to nightclubs as well?

I'm guessing it might buckle the NHS again (sigh), its not as if the NHS has never dealt with the night time crowd (I don't agree on the sometimes the noisy and violent crowd).

I'm not much into nightlife either but I agree that every part of society needs to reopen as thats what life is all about!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==

No, it is because the pandemic isn't over and nor will vaccination be complete at that point, both in the UK and much more so globally. We don't yet have strong data about the effects the vaccines have on transmission, nor for how long vaccine immunity lasts for. In a year's time the situation will be a lot different because we'll have much clearer data in these areas.

I would also say that it is quite likely that many in the 'nightclub' age bracket won't have been vaccinated by the time nightclubs reopen, many of these clubbers could also be flying off for for foreign holidays in the same period (if they're allowed to), probably to countries whose vaccination status is no where near the level as UK. That's another reason why it is too soon. Perhaps the latter point could be helped by enforcing strict quarantine controls when arriving at the country of holiday destination, but then you will probably argue it is an infringement of human rights!

Well Piers Morgan flew to Antigua, I don't know what the status is there but yes he survived and still potty mouths everyone else to stay indoors etc - we have to live without fear regardless in society or do we just continue to the doom/gloom of media and not go out?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==

You could argue they do more damage than good in general.

You could also argue that polticians and media have done more damage to life itself to the likes of nightlife.

 

[Philip]

If 21 June is 'no legal restrictions' then I see no reason why not. There is an emotional argument, perhaps fuelled by 12 months of project fear propaganda, in keeping them closed. But if grandad is allowed down the pub with only guidelines on distancing, why not his grandson down the nightclub?

Never been a fan of nightclubs myself, not even the ones that played my corner of the music world, but I see no reason why that should stop others enjoying them.

The pub is nothing like as risky a setting for transmission of bugs, compared to packed nightclubs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==

I'm guessing it might buckle the NHS again (sigh), its not as if the NHS has never dealt with the night time crowd (I don't agree on the sometimes the noisy and violent crowd).

I'm not much into nightlife either but I agree that every part of society needs to reopen as thats what life is all about!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==




Well Piers Morgan flew to Antigua, I don't know what the status is there but yes he survived and still potty mouths everyone else to stay indoors etc - we have to live without fear regardless in society or do we just continue to the doom/gloom of media and not go out?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==



You could also argue that polticians and media have done more damage to life itself to the likes of nightlife.

We have to live responsibly, that is different to living in doom and gloom. I don't think it is responsible reopening nightclubs as soon as June.

 

[NorthOxonian]

The pub is nothing like as risky a setting for transmission of bugs, compared to packed nightclubs.

Not if you go to the right pubs at the right time!

And anyway, the purpose of life isn't to prevent bugs spreading, I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a hazmat suit!

 

[Crossover]

We don't yet have strong data about the effects the vaccines have on transmission

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure there is strong reason to believe it does and if memory serves correct, was noted in the press conference at the start of the week.

 

[kez19]

The pub is nothing like as risky a setting for transmission of bugs, compared to packed nightclubs.

What did society do prior to this? Nothing life carried on.

What do you expect the nightclubs to do? Bring out the hoover and duster whilst people are enjoying themselves? Can we please get back to some sense of what life was like before all this, there is no need in this additional paranoia.

 

[Crossover]

Not if you go to the right pubs at the right time!

And anyway, the purpose of life isn't to prevent bugs spreading, I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a hazmat suit!

Was only discussing with a colleague earlier - it may take a while to break the habit of spraying everything and anything in sanitiser at regular intervals, but longer term, doing so will do us (as a nation) more harm than good

 

[kez19]

Not if you go to the right pubs at the right time!

And anyway, the purpose of life isn't to prevent bugs spreading, I don't want to spend the rest of my life in a hazmat suit!

I think with some people thats the new norm, go through life to prevent bugs spreading.

 

[NorthOxonian]

There does seem have been a massive 'outbreak' of puritanism in this country over the past few months,
particularly amongst the younger generation, bizarrely.




MARK

On social media, it does seem so, yes.

In person? Definitely not, virtually all of my friends are chomping at the bit to get back to normal!

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

No one has even said nightclubs will be reopening on June 21st. Personally, I can't see it happening exactly on that date, but providing we don't get some super-spreader killer mutant, it won't be long after that (perhaps mid-July).

 

[kez19]

The pub is nothing like as risky a setting for transmission of bugs, compared to packed nightclubs.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Feb 2021 ==



We have to live responsibly, that is different to living in doom and gloom. I don't think it is responsible reopening nightclubs as soon as June.

What were we doing before this happened? Living life responsibly, if the nightclubs have all the procedures in place I don't see any reason why not but then on the other nightclubs have never been given the chance regardless during this.

 

[Philip]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I am fairly sure there is strong reason to believe it does and if memory serves correct, was noted in the press conference at the start of the week.

Early indications are encouraging yes, the stronger evidence so far is that they have a huge impact on severe illness. But keeping cases under control is still important, especially whilst much of the world still won't be vaccinated by summer time. And like I say, a large number of young people here won't have received a vaccination at the point when nightclubs are due to reopen.

 

[kez19]

Early indications are encouraging yes, the stronger evidence so far is that they have a huge impact on severe illness. But keeping cases under control is still important, especially whilst much of the world still won't be vaccinated by summer time. And like I say, a large number of young people here won't have received a vaccination at the point when nightclubs are due to reopen.

but you can't restrict the freedom of people for the sake of being vaccinated - whats the point? If people want to go then let them go.

Why don't we restrict the lives of our politicians then? We aint heard much in the news about them being vaccinated but its OK for them to go on their jollys.

 

[Philip]

What did society do prior to this? Nothing life carried on.

What do you expect the nightclubs to do? Bring out the hoover and duster whilst people are enjoying themselves? Can we please get back to some sense of what life was like before all this, there is no need in this additional paranoia.

It's a global challenge and we have to be responsible because, even if our vaccine programme is complete in 6 months, many other countries won't be 'protected' until sometime next year.

 

[Darandio]

It's a global challenge and we have to be responsible because, even if our vaccine programme is complete in 6 months, many other countries won't be 'protected' until sometime next year.

"Don't open nightclubs because Botswana (insert any country here) haven't vaccinated everyone yet". Got it.

 

[Huntergreed]

It's a global challenge and we have to be responsible because, even if our vaccine programme is complete in 6 months, many other countries won't be 'protected' until sometime next year.

Hence we restrict international travel, not domestic activity.

It’s our responsibility to allow the NHS to cope, NOT to look after the citizens of other countries and keep everyone “safe”.