Porterbrook Cl.769 'Flex' trains from 319s, initially for Northern

[The Ham]

I've never got this. Either something is safe or it isn't. My (non railway) union's policy is that anything to do with working practices agreed with them (or not) applies everywhere.

That would make sense.

Given that TOC's are now only running services for the British government in theory they could ask the Welsh government to get TfW to run the required Northern services by sub leasing as a work around.

Yes it would incur costs (the Welsh government would want to benefit from helping the English out), however it's not beyond the realms of possibility that services (at least West of the Pennines which could be paired witha TfW service) could still be run.

 

[Efini92]

I've never got this. Either something is safe or it isn't. My (non railway) union's policy is that anything to do with working practices agreed with them (or not) applies everywhere.

They are separate companies since privatisation.
The best analogy I can think of is supermarkets. They are all covered by the same union but if Tesco agrees something it doesn’t mean Asda will also implement it.

 

[Cardiff123]

And yet they are both now in government hands (different governments, though).

That would make sense.

Given that TOC's are now only running services for the British government in theory they could ask the Welsh government to get TfW to run the required Northern services by sub leasing as a work around.

Yes it would incur costs (the Welsh government would want to benefit from helping the English out), however it's not beyond the realms of possibility that services (at least West of the Pennines which could be paired witha TfW service) could still be run.

Welsh Govt, through TfW, don't fully take over running of the Wales & Borders franchise until February. Until then, Keolis Amey are still running it with financial support from Welsh Govt, and seeing as driver training on TfW's 769s started just before lockdown was imposed in March, I'm guessing the dispute over in cab air conditioning was settled with Keolis Amey without Welsh Government input.

 

[GWRrrr]

If ASLEF in one area can agree to something, and yet ASLEF in another area say it's unsafe, that seems to blow a hole in their argument.

 

[Efini92]

It’s an argument about what level of air conditioning is acceptable.

 

[OTRail]

Are the ROG 769s actually going to be 769s? Heard rumors that they’ll just end up being bog standard 319s, especially given the way 373 emerged from Eastleigh.

 

[Bob Price]

There will be a mix of 319's and 769's for ROG. So the initial ones will just be 319's converted to freight use.

 

[OTRail]

Ok, cheers for clarifying!

 

[_toommm_]

Are the ROG 769s actually going to be 769s? Heard rumors that they’ll just end up being bog standard 319s, especially given the way 373 emerged from Eastleigh.

The idea I believe as well is that there'll be at least one 769 in a consist where it's required to go into a non-electrified terminus, so that the engines on them can haul the 319s that 'last mile'.

 

[samuelmorris]

The idea I believe as well is that there'll be at least one 769 in a consist where it's required to go into a non-electrified terminus, so that the engines on them can haul the 319s that 'last mile'.

I imagine that'll be pretty glacial given the performance of the 769s in passenger use, but I suppose probably not much different to a full-length freight consist with a 66.

 

[AM9]

I imagine that'll be pretty glacial given the performance of the 769s in passenger use, but I suppose probably not much different to a full-length freight consist with a 66.

"Glacial" progress into a terminus platform or a siding, especially in the quiet hours is preferable to running diesel under the wires. Nearly 7-800hp to pull about 350 tonnes is no worse than an 08 on station pilot duties.

 

[py_megapixel]

Any word on when the first Northern one will enter service? According to another thread Northern's have all been delivered already so one would assume it's just crew training they're waiting on; not sure if that's impacted by Covid?

 

[Geeves]

Pushed back till May due to Covid but mileage accumulation is still going on between Liverpool and Blackpool. Traincrew are ready.

 

[OTRail]

Pushed back till May due to Covid but mileage accumulation is still going on between Liverpool and Blackpool. Traincrew are ready.

Which makes it a grand total of 4 years late for passenger service debut - almost tied with Crossrail for poor project management and delays...

By the way, I saw this tweet speculating a March debut into service https://twitter.com/richard_rail/status/1349319426361982976?s=21

 

[Ribbleman]

A couple of days ago Northern told the rail users’ group that they still hope to have the first 769 running out of Southport before the end of March. Clearly this will be subject to there being no further Covid related setbacks.

 

[Jamesrob637]

A couple of days ago Northern told the rail users’ group that they still hope to have the first 769 running out of Southport before the end of March. Clearly this will be subject to there being no further Covid related setbacks.

Even that will free up a pair of 15X for social distancing!

 

[Ribbleman]

Even that will free up a pair of 15X for social distancing!

The expectation, social distancing requirements permitting, is that they will be able to start withdrawing 153s.

 

[Efini92]

A couple of days ago Northern told the rail users’ group that they still hope to have the first 769 running out of Southport before the end of March. Clearly this will be subject to there being no further Covid related setbacks.

Have they cleared up the cab cooling issue with ASLEF? I don’t recall seeing a circular saying so.

 

[_toommm_]

A couple of days ago Northern told the rail users’ group that they still hope to have the first 769 running out of Southport before the end of March. Clearly this will be subject to there being no further Covid related setbacks.

Although if this temporary timetable change lasts for a while, they won't have chance to get to Alderley Edge. The COVID timetable has the Southport runs curtailed at Oxford Road from Monday.

 

[Mollman]

769s seem to be back on test again, spotted one yesterday on Railcam at Leyland - seemed to be running on diesel mode (pantograph appeared to be lowered)

 

[KendalKing]

769448 was out on test on Wednesday, and 769442 been out on test this morning.

 

[AM9]

769448 was out on test on Wednesday, and 769442 been out on test this morning.

Interesting that they are both ex 'Thameslink Cityflyer' subclass sets.

 

[Gricer99]

Are they running driver training trips for a March timetable start? Not seen any through Hindley yet.

 

[Ribbleman]

Are they running driver training trips for a March timetable start? Not seen any through Hindley yet.

You won’t necessarily see the units on the route that they are intended to be employed upon just yet. After the early experience of one failing at Southport they have been training drivers using the electrified line to Blackpool North, so that in the event of diesel failure they can raise the pantograph and get back home. No doubt they will be running in and out of Southport through Hindley before long.

 

[507021]

Unsure if already mentioned, but I understand the ROG units will be 769/5s.

 

[SouthernR]

769424 ran to Carnforth in diesel mode yesterday.
https://andrewstransport.smugmug.com/Northwesttrains/North-West-trains-2020/i-xMzbNWJ/A

 

[KendalKing]

769424 ran to Carnforth in diesel mode yesterday.
https://andrewstransport.smugmug.com/Northwesttrains/North-West-trains-2020/i-xMzbNWJ/A

Makes a change from 769448

 

[The_Train]

I've been trying to catch up on the state of the 769 conversion work via the different threads on here (been some discussion hasn't there haha - must have read through over 200 pages in the last couple of days). Anyway, whilst doing so I thought I would compile a list of what is going on and have come up with the following

Number	Ex No.	Livery	TOC	Depot/Location	Current State
769000		Northern & Flex branding	Porterbrook	Long Marston	Stored
769002	319002	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769003	319003	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769006	319006	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769007	319007	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Undergoing testing
769008	319008	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Undergoing testing
769421	319421	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769424	319424		Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769426	319426	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769431	319431	Northern	Northern	Allerton
769434	319343		Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769442	319442	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769445	319445	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769448	319448	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769450	319450	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769452	319452	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769456	319456	Northern	Northern	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769458	319458	Northern	Northern	Crewe Arriva Traincare	Undergoing testing
769922	319422		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769923	319423		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769925	319425		GWR
769927	319427		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769928	319428		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769930	319430	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769932	319432		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769935	319435		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769936	319436	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769937	319437		GWR	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769938	319438		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769939	319439		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769940	319440		GWR	Reading Traincare	Conversion work yet to start
769943	319443		GWR
769944	319444		GWR	Derby RTC	Conversion work yet to start
769946	319446	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769947	319447		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769949	319449		GWR	Reading Traincare	Conversion work yet to start
769959	319459		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start

I still have a few blanks where I have not been able to locate any info (or my tiring eyes have missed it) and I am 100% sure that some of this data will be incorrect so if you can add to this, by filling in any blanks and/or correcting any errors then let me know and I will amend accordingly and repost

 

[Wyrleybart]

769007 has run in passenger service and 769008 / 769452 have worked 5Zxx up the Rhymney line

Re the GWR ones I was under the impression 769946 had been delivered last year but has since returned to either Loughborough or Burton, and I think there are two more delivered to Reading in the lat few weeks.

 

[507021]

I've been trying to catch up on the state of the 769 conversion work via the different threads on here (been some discussion hasn't there haha - must have read through over 200 pages in the last couple of days). Anyway, whilst doing so I thought I would compile a list of what is going on and have come up with the following

Number	Ex No.	Livery	TOC	Depot/Location	Current State
769000		Northern & Flex branding	Porterbrook	Long Marston	Stored
769002	319002	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769003	319003	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769006	319006	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	In Service
769007	319007	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Undergoing testing
769008	319008	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Undergoing testing
769421	319421	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769424	319424		Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769426	319426	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769431	319431	Northern	Northern	Allerton
769434	319343		Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769442	319442	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769445	319445	Ex TL White & Blue Doors	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769448	319448	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769450	319450	Northern	Northern	Allerton	Undergoing testing
769452	319452	TfW	TfW	Cardiff Canton	Converted - needing testing
769456	319456	Northern	Northern	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769458	319458	Northern	Northern	Crewe Arriva Traincare	Undergoing testing
769922	319422		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769923	319423		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769925	319425		GWR
769927	319427		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769928	319428		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769930	319430	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769932	319432		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769935	319435		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769936	319436	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769937	319437		GWR	Loughborough Works	Undergoing conversion
769938	319438		GWR	Long Marston	Conversion work yet to start
769939	319439		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769940	319440		GWR	Reading Traincare	Conversion work yet to start
769943	319443		GWR
769944	319444		GWR	Derby RTC	Conversion work yet to start
769946	319446	GWR	GWR	Nemesis Rail, Burton	Converted - now stored
769947	319447		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start
769949	319449		GWR	Reading Traincare	Conversion work yet to start
769959	319459		GWR	Wolverton Works	Conversion work yet to start

I still have a few blanks where I have not been able to locate any info (or my tiring eyes have missed it) and I am 100% sure that some of this data will be incorrect so if you can add to this, by filling in any blanks and/or correcting any errors then let me know and I will amend accordingly and repost

769000 is 769426.
769424/434 are in Northern livery.
769943/944 have also been converted.
The ROG units will be 769509/510.