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New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

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NorthOxonian

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Whoever wrote that should have his private parts nailed to a garden fence.

We do NOT have to use the same criteria for lifting the lockdown as Israel, NOR is there any suggestion that we are going to do so.

So just SHUT UP will you.

No wonder there are increased levels anxiety when the papers spout rubbish like this.
Though interestingly, someone I follow on twitter posted this (as well as a link to that article):

"Were the UK to apply the Israeli criteria but require only a single dose of vaccine, the dates for schools, non-essential shops and restaurants would move forward to late February and mid to late March respectively."

Whether that's a quote from the article, or whether that's something he's just worked out himself, it's certainly an interesting perspective on that article. I personally expect the timeline to be somewhere between the two.
 
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35B

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Point taken.

I suppose it depends on what you mean by "Lockdown to last until late May".

If you take it to mean the lockdown will last in it's current form until the end of May, with no easing of restrictions, I would say "..not a cat in hell's chance"

But if you take it to mean that all restrictions will be lifted by the end of May, I would say that is possible, but more likely that some restrictions will remain for a few months longer until everyone has been vaccinated.
With the caveat that I’m referring only to restrictions within U.K. borders, I’d agree with you on that as a likely conclusion. I do however reserve my full judgment until we’ve seen some clear trends and experience as vaccination really starts to take effect - given the restrictions we’re under, disentangling the effects of lockdown and vaccination will require care, and I expect the government to want to be careful to avoid a situation like that in the autumn/early winter, when previously committed relaxations were squashed because of the scale of the outbreak and its impact on healthcare.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is very little chance such a policy would be implemented here.

For one thing, it discriminates against people who don't have a smartphone, who often tend to be the poorer and most disadvantaged members of society.

It also discriminates against younger people who have not been vaccinated.

Do you really expect young people to be tested every 72 hours in order that they can use leisure facilities and bars, whereas us oldies who have been vaccinated don't have to bother with that nonsense.

And in any case, I am sure someone will work out a way of fiddling things so it make it look as though you have been vaccinated or tested.
They may, but I suspect many will if offered a choice between conditional access to facilities pending vaccination and no access, take the conditional access. With finite supply of vaccines and people to administer them, there will always be some at the back of the queue - and on a risk based analysis, those you mention are reasonable candidates for that unenviable spot.
 

RomeoCharlie71

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Just seen this on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1359570470589386752


It's going down like a lead balloon in the replies.
Somewhat related to this, and is what I've been looking for for ages:
1612987893653.png
(Image shows a table comparing the differences in England's/Scotland's outdoor lockdown restrictions.)

While I don't support lots of the Scottish Government's decisions, their stance on outdoor recreation/exercise is completely different to England's. Also worth noting outdoor recreation is permitted in Scotland, but the table doesn't show that.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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Positive test numbers are dropping encouragingly, but rates do seem to be remaining stubbornly high amongst the older age groups (at least in England)

Looking at hospital admission rate by age groups the higher age groups appear to be declining faster than lower age groups whether impact of vaccine or not I wouldn't know. Ive got a 7 day average on the daily data to smooth out variations but 65-84 group is showing increasing decline based on last couple of days data (7/2 is last update). This is what i would expect as on a 3 week lookback on vaccination levels (so those that should have reasonable level of inoculation by now) that would be 4.3m people.

1612987794493.png
 

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35B

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Looking at hospital admission rate by age groups the higher age groups appear to be declining faster than lower age groups whether impact of vaccine or not I wouldn't know. Ive got a 7 day average on the daily data to smooth out variations but 65-84 group is showing increasing decline based on last couple of days data (7/2 is last update). This is what i would expect as on a 3 week lookback on vaccination levels (so those that should have reasonable level of inoculation by now) that would be 4.3m people.

View attachment 90378
Good
 

philosopher

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Somewhat related to this, and is what I've been looking for for ages:
View attachment 90380
(Image shows a table comparing the differences in England's/Scotland's outdoor lockdown restrictions.)

While I don't support lots of the Scottish Government's decisions, their stance on outdoor recreation/exercise is completely different to England's. Also worth noting outdoor recreation is permitted in Scotland, but the table doesn't show that.
Looking at that table, I always thought that exercise being limited to once a day in England was guidance, not law.
 

brad465

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Looking at hospital admission rate by age groups the higher age groups appear to be declining faster than lower age groups whether impact of vaccine or not I wouldn't know. Ive got a 7 day average on the daily data to smooth out variations but 65-84 group is showing increasing decline based on last couple of days data (7/2 is last update). This is what i would expect as on a 3 week lookback on vaccination levels (so those that should have reasonable level of inoculation by now) that would be 4.3m people.

View attachment 90378
I do wish the Government dashboard would breakdown the 18-64 age group into two, maybe 18-44 and 45-64 or similar, which might highlight the significance of the 5-9 priority groups for vaccinations better and allow better grasp of how many young people are being admitted to hospital, if that makes sense.
 

Domh245

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Looking at hospital admission rate by age groups the higher age groups appear to be declining faster than lower age groups whether impact of vaccine or not I wouldn't know. Ive got a 7 day average on the daily data to smooth out variations but 65-84 group is showing increasing decline based on last couple of days data (7/2 is last update). This is what i would expect as on a 3 week lookback on vaccination levels (so those that should have reasonable level of inoculation by now) that would be 4.3m people.

Be careful not to conflate Rates and numbers in this context, there's much fewer 85+ YO (1.65m 85+ vs 10.7m 65-85) so the corresponding hospitalisation rate (as infection rate) is much higher - the healthcare dashboard shows this nicely, most admissions are 65-84 despite a rate less than a third that of the 85+ group! It is promising to see those numbers going down though, I think like you say it is no small part vaccines taking effect.

I do wish the Government dashboard would breakdown the 18-64 age group into two, maybe 18-44 and 45-64 or similar, which might highlight the significance of the 5-9 priority groups for vaccinations better and allow better grasp of how many young people are being admitted to hospital, if that makes sense.

It would be great, and would tie in more with the ONS's banding for deaths, but it'd really hammer home how 'meh' covid is for younger people which would certainly not help compliance with restrictions! Cynical, moi?
 

Solent&Wessex

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Watch him on Ch4 news he was even more animated about the situation. Good to see someone speaking out but I fear he is a lone voice and will be seen as a maverick after todays outbursts.

Although he was promptly followed by Devi Shridhar who declared we need to stay in lockdown for a lot longer, we shouldn't expect holidays this summer, and possibly restrictions on foreign travel and semi-closed borders for years to come.
 

kez19

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Although he was promptly followed by Devi Shridhar who declared we need to stay in lockdown for a lot longer, we shouldn't expect holidays this summer, and possibly restrictions on foreign travel and semi-closed borders for years to come.


Jeez they had to wheel out Devi again!, are the like of Devi paid puppets by the UK media by chance as its a forever ending cycle by the same gob..e people! (pardon my swearing)

Irony when you mention she states that we shouldn't be expecting holidays this summer etc - I guess thats the memo she passed to Sturgeon? (this was said a few weeks ago up north so its obvious needs to wheel it out UK wide)

Oh look (quelle surprise!): https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/covid-scotland-no-holidays-abroad-19799499

I know this thread is England but it can't be coincedence.

Scots are being warned not to book a holiday for at least six to eight months amid fears that mutated strains of the virus coming in from other countries could reinfect people who have already had coronavirus.


Professor Devi Sridhar who advises the first minister on decisions and is also the Global Public Health Chairwoman for Edinburgh University, has advised that politicians do not make the same mistake that they did last year.


Nicola Sturgeon also warned that no one should be travelling overseas right now, adding that we are not at a stage where you should be booking holidays.

The professor told Good Morning Scotland on BBC Radio: “We must try to get things open domestically by not going abroad for your summer holidays and being ready to stay put for at least six to eight months.”



Nicola Sturgeon recently brought in strict travel measures that require anyone entering Scotland to stay in a quarantined hotel for ten days to ensure they don't bring in the virus.


She recently warned: “No one should be travelling overseas right now, unless for absolutely essential purposes. And I’m afraid you should not at this stage be booking holidays overseas.”


Professor Jonathan Van-Tam, England's deputy chief medical officer, has also warned that it is "just too early to say" if people should bother booking a summer getaway this year.

Oh yes that same thing again, the public advised not to book holidays but I bet this lot of MP's will have holidays booked and fly off!

Also to further state she says "domestically" (does that mean we can travel between the 4 nations or shut off from each other?) but stay put for 6-8 months, so thats what? August-October? .. so end of Summer/Autumn? Are we getting a deja vu moment here, what happens by October (estimate) batten down the hatches? (come on now!)
 
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takno

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Although he was promptly followed by Devi Shridhar who declared we need to stay in lockdown for a lot longer, we shouldn't expect holidays this summer, and possibly restrictions on foreign travel and semi-closed borders for years to come.
I don't think there are really any ways to describe Shridhar in polite company. It's possible that she means well, but she doesn't seem much interested in introspection or academic enquiry. Everything seems to her to be proof that she was right all along or the work of wicked people who want to let rip and kill billions
 

kez19

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I don't think there are really any ways to describe Shridhar in polite company. It's possible that she means well, but she doesn't seem much interested in introspection or academic enquiry. Everything seems to her to be proof that she was right all along or the work of wicked people who want to let rip and kill billions


Yet on the other the media, she is there go to person - similar to Ferguson amongst others from SAGE? So does the media not have anyone else they can speak to about this than the usual reality scientist soapbox stars?
 

Yew

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I don't think there are really any ways to describe Shridhar in polite company. It's possible that she means well, but she doesn't seem much interested in introspection or academic enquiry. Everything seems to her to be proof that she was right all along or the work of wicked people who want to let rip and kill billions
The more she demands, the more people turn against her.
 

kez19

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The more she demands, the more people turn against her.

Thats what we need, it must be working :) (turning against her I mean), the tide must be turning, as if they all demand the public (even though its later than it should have been) will turn on them all and realise it?
 

brad465

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The more she demands, the more people turn against her.

Thats what we need, it must be working :) (turning against her I mean), the tide must be turning, as if they all demand the public (even though its later than it should have been) will turn on them all and realise it?
I think in short extreme measures, especially in this case when it comes to longevity, go too far in the eyes of many and end up being counter-productive, the same reason the "look them in the eyes" adverts are annoying people.
 

kez19

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I think in short extreme measures, especially in this case when it comes to longevity, go too far in the eyes of many and end up being counter-productive, the same reason the "look them in the eyes" adverts are annoying people.

In words of Mr Burns from The Simpsons ... "excellent" :)

I think another way regarding being counter productive - do these politicians/scientists/SAGE think that the longer this goes people will still be compliant, on a personal level I have no faith in any of them (both sides Scotland and UK).
 

Bertie the bus

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Yet on the other the media, she is there go to person - similar to Ferguson amongst others from SAGE? So does the media not have anyone else they can speak to about this than the usual reality scientist soapbox stars?
I've made this point before but I'll make it again. The media like, want and search for people like her and Ferguson. Hyping up stories gets viewers or readers. From a media perspective someone who presents a reasonable, middle of the road opinion is of no interest. There is no point wishing things were different. The only thing to do if you don't like it is don't watch, buy the newspapers or go to their websites.
 

Кряква

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Just seen this on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1359570470589386752


It's going down like a lead balloon in the replies.

I've pretty much come around to the point that whenever a politician issues the claim that I "must" do something (with regard to coronavirus legislation), they've probably lost their handle on reality.

All this is accomplishing is a watering down of the concepts behind rule of law.

My interactions with friends and family are not subject to your authority or approval. Never have been, never will be.
 

kez19

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I've made this point before but I'll make it again. The media like, want and search for people like her and Ferguson. Hyping up stories gets viewers or readers. From a media perspective someone who presents a reasonable, middle of the road opinion is of no interest. There is no point wishing things were different. The only thing to do if you don't like it is don't watch, buy the newspapers or go to their websites.


I rarely watch the news let alone read it (seeing it posted here), whilst I agree about switching off etc but isn’t however time that the media grew balls than take things for face value from these nitwits and held them all to account or do we think the media are tied into this too?

There is more to this than meets the eye

As I said somewhere on here why no positive stories throughout this, it’s mostly been negative. Vaccines were seen as a limelight out of it but what’s happening - ie stay in lockdown, negative about vaccines and the now so called variants, I smell some fish and it’ll be soon time for that fish to fry
 

initiation

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Interesting graphs snapped from twitter. I mentioned a few weeks ago the major ramping up of lateral flow tests since the new year. To my eyes there looks a pretty convincing trend when compared against positivity..l

Of course whether this is part of some plan to reduce reliance on overly sensitive PCR testing or just a happy accident I don't know.
 

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bramling

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One thing I do not understand is there are so many people on this forum and many others and on social media who are completely against lockdowns and the restrictions which people are allowed the opinion of. But there has been talk of civil unrest but nothing has been seen yet. Have people communicated with their MPs yet?

When the Brexit result came in and the laws were passed people took them to court over the legislation - people like Gina Miller. But has anyone considered that yet?

It's all very well talking about restrictions on forums, social media and protesting but that will not change anything. The only way changes will occur is legal action.

I’ve been in contact with my MP several times over the last year.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

The Government can decide to follow Israel, North Korea or the Forest Moon of Endor if it so wishes, I won't be staying locked down until May.

Nor me, and I don’t think the police would be foolish enough to try to enforce it - indeed round here “stay at home” is properly dead, and I’ve seen no evidence of any enforcement at all. I realise that isn’t the case everywhere!

The difficulty is of course that places like hotels could still be mandated to be closed, and that screws up what I would like to be doing. The way things are at the moment I’d use a tent if I had to, though!
 
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yorkie

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Looking at that table, I always thought that exercise being limited to once a day in England was guidance, not law.
It is just guidance.

Some police forces have been caught issuing fines for breaking guidance though; some have later apologised and cancelled the fines. We can't trust the police, sadly.
Although he was promptly followed by Devi Shridhar who declared we need to stay in lockdown for a lot longer, we shouldn't expect holidays this summer, and possibly restrictions on foreign travel and semi-closed borders for years to come.
She is bonkers.


Interesting graphs snapped from twitter. I mentioned a few weeks ago the major ramping up of lateral flow tests since the new year. To my eyes there looks a pretty convincing trend when compared against positivity..l

Of course whether this is part of some plan to reduce reliance on overly sensitive PCR testing or just a happy accident I don't know.
Thanks for posting, but can you edit your post to include a text alternative, for anyone unable to view the image please? Many thanks :)
 

yorksrob

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Another interview on Radio 4 with Jeremy Farrar suggesting restrictions continue until case numbers are down to the single thousands. Frustratingly the interviewer didn't press him on what level of restrictions these would be. I get the impression this means non-stop lockdown.

It seems we will potentially have gone backwards since last summer when there were no vaccines. I don't see how anyone will accept this.
 

35B

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Jeez they had to wheel out Devi again!, are the like of Devi paid puppets by the UK media by chance as its a forever ending cycle by the same gob..e people! (pardon my swearing)

Irony when you mention she states that we shouldn't be expecting holidays this summer etc - I guess thats the memo she passed to Sturgeon? (this was said a few weeks ago up north so its obvious needs to wheel it out UK wide)

Oh look (quelle surprise!): https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/covid-scotland-no-holidays-abroad-19799499

I know this thread is England but it can't be coincedence.





Oh yes that same thing again, the public advised not to book holidays but I bet this lot of MP's will have holidays booked and fly off!

Also to further state she says "domestically" (does that mean we can travel between the 4 nations or shut off from each other?) but stay put for 6-8 months, so thats what? August-October? .. so end of Summer/Autumn? Are we getting a deja vu moment here, what happens by October (estimate) batten down the hatches? (come on now!)
Funny, it’s usually the same talking heads on both sides of the argument. Both equally tediously reciting their best lines from the last year, lightly tuned to whatever the latest headlines are.
 

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Nor me, and I don’t think the police would be foolish enough to try to enforce it - indeed round here “stay at home” is properly dead, and I’ve seen no evidence of any enforcement at all. I realise that isn’t the case everywhere!

The difficulty is of course that places like hotels could still be mandated to be closed, and that screws up what I would like to be doing. The way things are at the moment I’d use a tent if I had to, though!
That's the main problem. It’s all very well people deciding that they have had enough of the lockdown and are not remaining in lockdown much longer, but not so easy if nearly everywhere remains closed. I’ve completely had enough of walking the same muddy footpaths within a few miles from home. As the weather gets better and the nights lighter I would like to forget lockdown and begin to take longer days out further from home and ultimately spend a few nights in a hotel away from home. This can’t be done if hotels are closed and even on days out it’s not much fun when you can’t sit inside anywhere for something to eat and drink. I’m finding it so depressing this morning listening to the news where there is talk of not even any UK holidays this summer, and that things might just be nearly back to normal by the end of the year. I was hoping that we could at least get back to what we had last summer by April.
 

35B

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I've made this point before but I'll make it again. The media like, want and search for people like her and Ferguson. Hyping up stories gets viewers or readers. From a media perspective someone who presents a reasonable, middle of the road opinion is of no interest. There is no point wishing things were different. The only thing to do if you don't like it is don't watch, buy the newspapers or go to their websites.
As you say - and that includes the likes of Walker on the anti lockdown side of the argument.
 

yorksrob

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As you say - and that includes the likes of Walker on the anti lockdown side of the argument.

No, because being against lockdown isn't an extreme position. Being in favour of dropping all restrictions immediately possibly would be, but I didn't hear Walker arguing for that.
 
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