New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

[NorthOxonian]

It was quite moving listening to that video.

Chris from Bolton cannot be the only person in that situation - the constant mixing of negative and positive stories, plus the shifting of goalposts on the easing of the lockdown, is having a serious impact on people's mental health.

Take this extract from the BBC website this afternoon



What the %@$$!! does he mean by possibly easing the lockdown or could contain more detail? Does this imply there is a chance that the lockdown won't be eased in the statement on 22nd February and if not why not? And is there a possibility that the statement won't contain more detail about the easing of the lockdown, and it will be just a load of waffle?

Now either Mr Shapps did say that, or the BBC are inserting the words possibly and could.

Either way, one of them is guilty of instilling fear into the general population, and this is precisely the sort of thing that has such an adverse effect on the mental health of people like Chris from Bolton.

The government understood this during the Second World War, and bad news was either heavily censored, or omitted from the newspapers altogether.

I've also noted that Johnson has referred to his unlocking plan coming out in the week beginning the 22nd, as opposed to on the 22nd - while that's not a huge shift it is kicking the can a few days further down the road.

 

[35B]

It was quite moving listening to that video.

Chris from Bolton cannot be the only person in that situation - the constant mixing of negative and positive stories, plus the shifting of goalposts on the easing of the lockdown, is having a serious impact on people's mental health.

Take this extract from the BBC website this afternoon



What the %@$$!! does he mean by possibly easing the lockdown or could contain more detail? Does this imply there is a chance that the lockdown won't be eased in the statement on 22nd February and if not why not? And is there a possibility that the statement won't contain more detail about the easing of the lockdown, and it will be just a load of waffle?

Now either Mr Shapps did say that, or the BBC are inserting the words possibly and could.

Either way, one of them is guilty of instilling fear into the general population, and this is precisely the sort of thing that has such an adverse effect on the mental health of people like Chris from Bolton.

The government understood this during the Second World War, and bad news was either heavily censored, or omitted from the newspapers altogether.

Wise censors knew that they should not censor so much that people saw a difference between life as they experienced it and what was reported. If you look further east, the impact of hiding bad news was very visible over Stalingrad.

 

[6862]

We have another PM press conference this afternoon: if they want to talk negative they'll have to physically strain their vocal cords to do so, given all the stats are effectively plummeting (26.6% reduction in cases, 25.7% reduction in deaths and 22.2% reduction in hospital admissions, all over the last 7 days).

This may be better in the Briefing Bingo thread, but I expect they will find plenty of negativity to talk about - I bet there'll be a big emphasis on the 'Bristol variant'.

 

[joncombe]

This may be better in the Briefing Bingo thread, but I expect they will find plenty of negativity to talk about - I bet there'll be a big emphasis on the 'Bristol variant'.

Yes the focus this week has been hugely on international travel. Yet of the 3 "new variants" that have been identified (Kent, South Africa and Bristol (or possibly Manchester)), 2 of them originated domestically and in the case of this Bristol/Manchester (I've seen conflicting stories) variant, during lockdown.

 

[yorksrob]

Wise censors knew that they should not censor so much that people saw a difference between life as they experienced it and what was reported. If you look further east, the impact of hiding bad news was very visible over Stalingrad.

There's still no excuse for not easing lockdown.

 

[6862]

Yes the focus this week has been hugely on international travel. Yet of the 3 "new variants" that have been identified (Kent, South Africa and Bristol (or possibly Manchester)), 2 of them originated domestically and in the case of this Bristol/Manchester (I've seen conflicting stories) variant, during lockdown.

And we all know that the only answer to these new variants is more lockdown! It clearly works so well that we should do more of it! (Heavy sarcasm in case anyone was wondering).

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

I think I might write to my MP. It’s Mark Harper so there’s a good chance he’ll be sympathetic

Sure he's vocal but even he and his CRG cohort have rolled back to May being there deadline now for removal of restrictions so this is a lost cause without wider unrest through protest (banned) to reflect wider societal view so we are stuck with it for some weeks to come.

Ah another press conference again! When will these ever end?! So this one's with Johnson, but it hasn't said yet who else is appearing. Let's hope the attitudes at these press conferences starts turning a lot more optimistic now. As you say, the stats are absolutely tumbling now week on week. Monday's press conference with Hancock, and he didn't really mention about all these tumbling stats. Yet again he said "Our hospitals are still under a great deal of pressure." which we've heard so many times now. But with hospital admissions and numbers in hospital now tumbling, they won't be able to keep saying this for too much longer. By the end of the month the numbers in hospital should easily be below 15,000. And by the end of next month they could well be below 1,000.

he will say the same again and will tell us to stay locked up until I tell you my plan on 22nd Feb and there isn't darn thing we can do about it as nobody is pushing back anymore not even business.

What the %@$$!! does he mean by possibly easing the lockdown or could contain more detail? Does this imply there is a chance that the lockdown won't be eased in the statement on 22nd February and if not why not? And is there a possibility that the statement won't contain more detail about the easing of the lockdown, and it will be just a load of waffle?

All you can expect on 22/2 is if this happens we might be able to relax that restriction in the future but of course if we find more variants of concern all bets are off

 

[Bertie the bus]

It was quite moving listening to that video.

Chris from Bolton cannot be the only person in that situation - the constant mixing of negative and positive stories, plus the shifting of goalposts on the easing of the lockdown, is having a serious impact on people's mental health.

It's quite sad but entirely predictable. I don't know why people who can't deal with it still read/watch the media unless they are totally isolated. I know a couple of quite vulnerable people who really should try to avoid getting COVID but were getting incredibly anxious from news reports, far too anxious for my liking. So about 9 months ago I firmly told them to stop watching the news. I ensure I'm up to date with what is going on and make sure they know what they need to - restrictions in their area, vaccine news, etc, and filter out all of the scaremongering noise they don't need to know that was causing the alarm.

 

[yorksrob]

There's a barnstorming interview on The World at One with MP Charles Walker basically telling the Government it needs to get a grip and start paving the way for lockdown to end at about 28:45:

World at One - 10/02/2021 - BBC Sounds

Forty-five minutes of news, analysis and comment, with Sarah Montague

www.bbc.co.uk

The epidemiologist interviewed before is also worth listening to, in that he concurs with the views of most on here that eradication of the virus is impossible.

 

[NorthOxonian]

Sure he's vocal but even he and his CRG cohort have rolled back to May being there deadline now for removal of restrictions so this is a lost cause without wider unrest through protest (banned) to reflect wider societal view so we are stuck with it for some weeks to come.

Though having said that, a tweet on the Talk Radio account reads:

Mark Harper MP, Covid Recovery Group chairman, says there is no case "for any legal restrictions" once the vulnerable have been vaccinated, adding that all Covid restrictions should end "between March 8th and the end of April."

It's based on an interview he gave this morning - I haven't watched it yet but I assume said quote accurately reflects the view he expressed.

The problem is that "removal of restrictions" means everything from ending the stay at home order right through to unlimited and mass events. Obviously they're not all going to happen at the same time - it's the latter to which Harper's May deadline applies.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Though having said that, a tweet on the Talk Radio account reads:

It's based on an interview he gave this morning - I haven't watched it yet but I assume said quote accurately reflects the view he expressed.

The problem is that "removal of restrictions" means everything from ending the stay at home order right through to unlimited and mass events. Obviously they're not all going to happen at the same time - it's the latter to which Harper's May deadline applies.

Thanks and wasn't aware of that so good to hear that he's keeping his position flexible although in reality they will gets regulations extended next week as opposition parties are 100% behind it despite the rhetoric.

 

[brad465]

Vice Chair of the 1922 committee has made a right good dig at the PM about moving the goalposts, telling him to "get a grip" on ministers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56007070

Conservative MP Sir Charles Walker has said the government has moved the goalposts on the timetable for removing Covid restrictions, adding: "They've not so much moved as been ripped out and carried off to another playing field."

It comes after Transport Secretary Grant Shapps warned people in the UK not to book holidays at home or abroad yet due to the coronavirus pandemic.

Sir Charles, the vice chair of the Conservatives' backbench 1922 Committee, told Radio 4's The World At One: "There's a lot of people who would have seen a lot of hope evaporate at that."

Responding to the holiday warning and also Health Secretary Matt Hancock's announcement that travellers could face up to 10 years in jail for lying about recent travel history, he urged the prime minister to "get a grip" on his cabinet ministers.

"The PM has had a good few weeks where he seems to have been on top of things and then he is somewhat let down by both his secretary of state for health and the secretary of state for transport," he said.

 

[6862]

There's a barnstorming interview on The World at One with MP Charles Walker basically telling the Government it needs to get a grip and start paving the way for lockdown at about 28:45:

Absolutely fantastic.

 

[Bantamzen]

The tide may now be starting to turn, dissent is clear within the rank & file of the Conservative party, which is far more important in BoJo's eyes than anything else. Its not often I cheer those blighters on, but yay the Tory Ranks!!

 

[6862]

The tide may now be starting to turn, dissent is clear within the rank & file of the Conservative party, which is far more important in BoJo's eyes than anything else. Its not often I cheer those blighters on, but yay the Tory Ranks!!

I wouldn't call one back bencher having a rant on Radio 4 dissent, but I hope it may be a sign of dissent to come. If people like Charles Walker and Mark Harper can cause the government some trouble and begin to start a change , they deserve to go down in history as national heroes. Even if they don't succeed and Boris manages to keep his stranglehold on the country long term they have at least tried, which is more than the other > 99% of MPs seem to be doing!

 

[joncombe]

Vice Chair of the 1922 committee has made a right good dig at the PM about moving the goalposts, telling him to "get a grip" on ministers:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-56007070

I find it particularly irritating that just a few weeks ago Matt Hancock was on TV saying we could all look forward to a summer doing all the things we enjoy again, that he was personally looking forward to a holiday and had already booked a holiday in Cornwall.

Then we have the transport secretary saying we should absolutely not be booking a holiday. Well then I hope he is going to go and lecture Matt Hancock to cancel his.

 

[Кряква]

This video from Talk Radio is worth a watch(or at least listening to whilst doing something else), for those who are still finding lockdown and all these restrictions difficult to deal with, and who are bothered by doom mongering stories from the press and media.

I personally feel very close to the opinion that this gentleman has espoused here.

I have not attempted suicide; but only because, out of some sheer sense of self-importance(?) my mind turns more towards wanting to physically hurt the people that are doing this to me. Why should they get away with this? We are not the ones at fault here.

I have had to seek help in order to address those issues and in fact have gone as far as alerting the authorities who are now in communication with me to ensure that this does not happen.

Thank you for posting the video. I've e-mailed in to the station to tell them that he's not the only one.

The solution for me has simply been to decide on my own date for lockdown ending.

I already had a soft date after the first lockdown in which I said "right, not listening to indoor restrictions", the date I have in mind now is the one beyond which I just completely ignore all restrictions.

I've given 'team lockdown' more than enough of my time, energy, and frankly of my sanity - it's time now.

 

[Bantamzen]

I wouldn't call one back bencher having a rant on Radio 4 dissent, but I hope it may be a sign of dissent to come. If people like Charles Walker and Mark Harper can cause the government some trouble and begin to start a change , they deserve to go down in history as national heroes. Even if they don't succeed and Boris manages to keep his stranglehold on the country long term they have at least tried, which is more than the other > 99% of MPs seem to be doing!

A back bencher he may be, but as vice-chair of the 1922 committee he pulls a lot more weight, and is likely airing views that are quickly spreading in that party. Take it as a very good sign that pressure is now on the cabinet & PM, even if publicly they maintain the lockdown façade for a bit.

 

[yorksrob]

Labour need to grow a backbone and start pushing against lockdown as well. Not sure if we'll see it though.

 

[6862]

A back bencher he may be, but as vice-chair of the 1922 committee he pulls a lot more weight, and is likely airing views that are quickly spreading in that party. Take it as a very good sign that pressure is now on the cabinet & PM, even if publicly they maintain the lockdown façade for a bit.

It's not the first time the 1922 have made noises though - Sir Graham Brady was quite vocal towards the end of last year but he has gone quiet again (been silenced?). It will have to go much further than words before I even begin to consider that the tide might be turning against the tyrant (Boris).

 

[initiation]

It's not the first time the 1922 have made noises though - Sir Graham Brady was quite vocal towards the end of last year but he has gone quiet again (been silenced?)

With the increasing death rate around the new year I think they perhaps made a strategic retreat. With cases and deaths now falling across the board I can see (and are very hopeful) the critism re-emerges.

 

[NorthOxonian]

A back bencher he may be, but as vice-chair of the 1922 committee he pulls a lot more weight, and is likely airing views that are quickly spreading in that party. Take it as a very good sign that pressure is now on the cabinet & PM, even if publicly they maintain the lockdown façade for a bit.

The chair of the 1922 committee, Graham Brady, is another rather prominent voice opposing lockdowns, and has voted against measures several times.

On a related tangent - Brady was one of three anti-lockdown speakers at a debate at the Cambridge Union, together with Richard Tice and Toby Young. They were facing off against a number of pro-lockdown speakers (one of whom is actually the Lib Dem MP for my university's seat). 54% of the students attending actually voted for the anti-lockdown side - and the pro-lockdown side will have got a fair bit less than 46% because some people will have abstained. This is despite the Cambridge Union being quite liberal; you'd expect them to dislike views being advanced by Brady and Tice. It's just a debate motion so doesn't really mean anything in and of itself. But it's another sign that maybe pro-lockdown views aren't held by the vast majority as YouGov would have us believe.

 

[Ediswan]

A back bencher he may be, but as vice-chair of the 1922 committee he pulls a lot more weight, and is likely airing views that are quickly spreading in that party. Take it as a very good sign that pressure is now on the cabinet & PM, even if publicly they maintain the lockdown façade for a bit.

And, if that is what he is prepared to say live on national radio, what more is he saying in private ? I notice everybody left out the 'unparliamentary language' he used to describe ministers.

Also worth noting that he is MP for Broxbourne, which had both a very high case rate at the peak, and includes the EN10 postcode, which was a SA variant hot spot.

 

[NorthOxonian]

And, if that is what he is prepared to say live on national radio, what more is he saying in private ? I notice everybody left out the 'unparliamentary language' he used to describe ministers.

Also worth noting that he is MP for Broxbourne, which had both a very high case rate at the peak, and includes the EN10 postcode, which was a SA variant hot spot.

I'm not sure you can blame him for the case rates in his constituency! Broxbourne is right next to Essex, which was very badly hit, and it has a lot of residents who still have to travel in to work and so are more likely to catch the virus (it has the 2nd highest proportion of construction workers in England, is in the top 10% for proportion of retail workers, and the top 20% for proportion of transport workers).

 

[Кряква]

I'm not sure you can blame him for the case rates in his constituency! Broxbourne is right next to Essex, which was very badly hit, and it has a lot of residents who still have to travel in to work and so are more likely to catch the virus (it has the 2nd highest proportion of construction workers in England, is in the top 10% for proportion of retail workers, and the top 20% for proportion of transport workers).

I think the implication is not that he's to blame, but that he's aware of the impact of the virus, and doesn't just happen to have the blinkers on because it hasn't affected his neck of the woods.

 

[NorthOxonian]

I think the implication is not that he's to blame, but that he's aware of the impact of the virus, and doesn't just happen to have the blinkers on because it hasn't affected his neck of the woods.

I may have read the post in question wrongly, but I got the impression that it was criticising Walker (with the reference to his "unparliamentary language"). If that wasn't the case then I apologise for the confusion.

 

[Ediswan]

I may have read the post in question wrongly, but I got the impression that it was criticising Walker (with the reference to his "unparliamentary language"). If that wasn't the case then I apologise for the confusion.

No, no intent to criticise Walker. Rather, I was seeking to point out that he was riled enough to refer to '****** ministers' on luchtime radio. Tricky thing the English language.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 10 Feb 2021 ==

I think the implication is not that he's to blame, but that he's aware of the impact of the virus, and doesn't just happen to have the blinkers on because it hasn't affected his neck of the woods.

Correct. I was just not having much luck coming up with the right form of words.

 

[NorthOxonian]

No, no intent to criticise Walker. Rather, I was seeking to point out that he was riled enough to refer to '****** ministers' on luchtime radio. Tricky thing the English language.

Ah, my apologies for getting your point muddled up! It certainly was quite surprising, but you could hear him getting more and more agitated especially because the presenter kept asking him trivial questions about his own personal plans.

He also gave an interview on Sky News this afternoon, saying basically the same thing and expressing concern that the government can just move the goalposts indefinitely.

 

[MikeWM]

Charles Walker has been consistently excellent for some months now. It is a shame there aren't more MPs like him. I've probably done so already, but his speech in the Commons at the beginning of this lockdown is worth posting - and reading - in full.

(link)

I cannot support this legislation. I cannot support criminalising a parent for seeing their child in the park over the coming months. It is not within my DNA to do that.

Of course I will follow the law and respect the law. We have the argument in the House of Commons; the House divides and one is on the winning side or the losing side. I will be on the losing side, no doubt, but I do not wear the fact that I will support the law with great virtue, because it is easy for me to comply with the law. It is easy for most people in this House to comply with the law. We are comfortably off, we live in nice houses, we have gardens and outdoor spaces, and we have access to family. The same is true of the journalists who fill our TV screens every night with their wisdom and wit about how people should comply with these regulations, and they sneer at those who cannot. But the next three months are going to be really hard for a lot of people—people who do not have my advantages of a monthly salary and a monthly pension payment. They will be worrying about their job, their future, their mental health and their family relationships, because they will miss people terribly. They will be living in small environs that apparently they can leave only to exercise once a day. Sadly, some of those people will break. It will be too much for them. That is when we in this place—and the journalists up there in the Gallery with all their privileges—instead of sneering and dismissing them and calling them “covidiots” should show some compassion and understanding. We should wear our advantages and privileges with great humility.

I do not want to hear from another constituent who is having a good lockdown. I am really pleased that they are, but my voice is for those who are not: for those of my friends, neighbours and constituents who are struggling day in, day out, whose mental health is not in a healthy state, but has deteriorated, and who are wondering how, in the next few months, in the middle of winter, they will cope.

I ask colleagues and people out there who are so fortunate to show some compassion and understanding for those who are not so fortunate.

 

[greyman42]

I wouldn't call one back bencher having a rant on Radio 4 dissent, but I hope it may be a sign of dissent to come. If people like Charles Walker and Mark Harper can cause the government some trouble and begin to start a change , they deserve to go down in history as national heroes. Even if they don't succeed and Boris manages to keep his stranglehold on the country long term they have at least tried, which is more than the other > 99% of MPs seem to be doing!

I agree with everything you have said. One of the main problems is that Johnson has got the labour party firmly behind him.