Suggestions for improving MML services

[A0]

Good point about Kettering/ Wellingborough. There is almost certainly some element of suppressed demand from regularly having to board 4/5 car Meridians already full from further north.

It's rare to see a 4 car Meridian on its own off peak, let alone at peak. Usually they're paired with a 5 car to make a 9 car set.

Getting seats from Wellingborough or Kettering in the peak isn't usually a problem - getting them on the return because of the Luton and Bedford stops was always more of a problem.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 7 Feb 2021 ==

Though if some London companies downsize, that enables vacant space to be taken by new companies gaining London office space for the first time, who previously may have been priced out.

They won't though.

The "glitter" of having London office space has been well and truly killed by Covid. The only way any company will tempt employees to spend 5 days a week commuting for 60 minutes on a train in future will be with a hefty pay premium - which won't happen.

If my employers are a guide, I reckon you're going to see a 20-30% drop in commuting post Covid. The rail industry is going to have to adapt - and that will mean cost reduction.

 

[adrock1976]

I'm obviously out-of-date on the Scottish connection but, as far as London commuting by rail goes, the high fare situation apples to season tickets, too.
Corby weekly season ticket to London- £214.50 compared to £148.50 for both Northampton and Long Buckby to Euston (the charges for a monthly are £823.70 and £570.30 respectively). Pretty much only one train an hour all day.
The idea of building a new dormitory town about 75 miles from the intended workplace is an unusual one in the 21st century...

When there were Sunday diversions via Corby and Manton generally only alternate services actually called at Corby

Regarding the Sunday diversions calling at Corby, are you referring to the present day 2009 reopening of the station, or the previous reopening in 1986 and subsequent closure (again) not long after?

 

[Ianno87]

They won't though.

The "glitter" of having London office space has been well and truly killed by Covid. The only way any company will tempt employees to spend 5 days a week commuting for 60 minutes on a train in future will be with a hefty pay premium - which won't happen.

If my employers are a guide, I reckon you're going to see a 20-30% drop in commuting post Covid. The rail industry is going to have to adapt - and that will mean cost reduction.

Loads of companies already have a small “prestige” London office. Not intended for doing 9-5 every day at, but a “shop window” for top level meetings with clients, etc.

 

[Merle Haggard]

House prices are about 20% lower in Corby than Northampton - that more than offsets the season ticket price difference.

Regarding the Sunday diversions calling at Corby, are you referring to the present day 2009 reopening of the station, or the previous reopening in 1986 and subsequent closure (again) not long after?

I was referring to the recent past, within last 5 years.

 

[adrock1976]

I was referring to the recent past, within last 5 years.

Thanks.

 

[Aictos]

The obvious answer is "exactly as they will be with the new timetable"

Their new rolling stock will be bi-modes, so you keep the Sheffield / Notts services as planned, you keep the Corby services as planned. Sheffield / Notts services will just run on the juice to Leicester rather than to MH. The interchange between Leicester and Corby services will be at Kettering.

Even if Leicester were wired, there's no justification for changing the "new" (i.e. soon to be inplemented) timetable.

You misunderstand, If Leicester was electrified then surely there's a viable case of splitting/joining at Kettering with one portion for Corby and one for Leicester which would give Leicester and Market Harborough direct access to Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport without having to change at Kettering which would restore direct links that will be lost under the incoming timetable.

 

[A0]

You misunderstand, If Leicester was electrified then surely there's a viable case of splitting/joining at Kettering with one portion for Corby and one for Leicester which would give Leicester and Market Harborough direct access to Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport without having to change at Kettering which would restore direct links that will be lost under the incoming timetable.

No, there really isn't.

Leicester will have a 4tph service to London which has been accelerated because of the Corby electrification. I doubt there is the demand to increase that to 5 or 6 even if there's capacity to - between those fast EMRs between Kettering & Leicester there are also freight paths to be considered.

Connectivity to / from Bedford, Luton, Mkt Harboro etc isn't significant - which is partly why it's being sacrificed a d replaced with the interchange at Kettering.

Splitting / joining potentially causes problems and adds to the journey time - London Midland used to allow 5 mins at at Northampton when the Brum / Crewe trains used to split / join, but you only need one to be delayed to caused a load of knock on delays.

 

[adamedwards]

Yes, 12 car trains, thanks!
As regards offices we simply don't know what is going to happen but there will be people travelling, not least because the M1 is full in the rush hour. My hope is that some of the offices become housing in the centre of London, so the railways can smooth the peak with less extra trains, but that doesn't remove the need for the electrics from Corby long term.

 

[A0]

Yes, 12 car trains, thanks!
As regards offices we simply don't know what is going to happen but there will be people travelling, not least because the M1 is full in the rush hour. My hope is that some of the offices become housing in the centre of London, so the railways can smooth the peak with less extra trains, but that doesn't remove the need for the electrics from Corby long term.

Not sure the M1 is relevant - because north of Luton it serves a different set of places to the MML. In fact south of Luton it heads away from the MML when it touches Hemel and Watford.

So if you want to go from MK to Luton, the MML is no use to you. If anything up to Rugby the M1 shadows the WCML more than the MML.


Similarly the M1 goes nowhere near Corby - in fact Corby's close to the A1 than the M1.

Creating more housing in London is possible, but again, whether there is the demand for it, post Covid, remains to be seen.

I think Corby will be viable as a 2tph service as set out in the new EMR timetable - what I don't see demand for is that to become more frequent than 2tph, that to become an extension of Thameslink, or that to become some part of any barmy ideas about splitting units at Kettering to send some onto Leicester.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Not sure the M1 is relevant - because north of Luton it serves a different set of places to the MML. In fact south of Luton it heads away from the MML when it touches Hemel and Watford.

So if you want to go from MK to Luton, the MML is no use to you. If anything up to Rugby the M1 shadows the WCML more than the MML.


Similarly the M1 goes nowhere near Corby - in fact Corby's close to the A1 than the M1.

Creating more housing in London is possible, but again, whether there is the demand for it, post Covid, remains to be seen.

I think Corby will be viable as a 2tph service as set out in the new EMR timetable - what I don't see demand for is that to become more frequent than 2tph, that to become an extension of Thameslink, or that to become some part of any barmy ideas about splitting units at Kettering to send some onto Leicester.

The issue of handling surplus office accommodation in central London will be a challenging task - a trend that partly happened pre COVID , - even the DfT gave up some of it's space for very expensive housing, I suspect not for Londoners but for foreign investors. Even here in St Albans , there has been a trend for some offices to be turned into housing - selling both access to Thameslink and even the (present train less Abbey line) !

Anyway - back to the MML - "fast" Leicester's were not exactly full pre COVID - at least off peak. So it will be interesting to see how it pans out.

 

[43055]

It's rare to see a 4 car Meridian on its own off peak, let alone at peak. Usually they're paired with a 5 car to make a 9 car set.

At least 2 of the 4 cars run on there own between peaks before December. Normally they work the Nottingham/Corby services. The other runs as a 9 car on the 0902 London - Sheffield and 1129 Return.

Personally I wouldn't change much from the May timetable as I don't see a need for more then 4 per hour from Leicester and all the stops south of East Midlands Parkway has at least a 2 services an hour. Maybe one thing that could change is possibly looking at stopping a couple of Intercity service at Luton Airport Parkway (maybe with pickup and set down restrictions?).

 

[WAO]

Excited for this forums vision for 2040 and catching the Thameslink from Carlisle to Brighton...

WAO

 

[Merle Haggard]

Thanks.

Just to be clear, this was when the line was still single so there must have been pathing too tight to provide a stop. Usually a pathing wait at Kettering, (down) or North of Corby (Up) anyway.

 

[43074]

You misunderstand, If Leicester was electrified then surely there's a viable case of splitting/joining at Kettering with one portion for Corby and one for Leicester which would give Leicester and Market Harborough direct access to Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport without having to change at Kettering which would restore direct links that will be lost under the incoming timetable.

They are valid points but there isn't enough capacity on the 2 track section between Kettering and (south of) Leicester for an additional train per hour when you consider freight as well. There will be 2tph from Leicester to Kettering and the connection times will be quite good, so that hardly justifies the expense and operational complexity of portion working on the Electric services.

 

[HST43257]

You misunderstand, If Leicester was electrified then surely there's a viable case of splitting/joining at Kettering with one portion for Corby and one for Leicester which would give Leicester and Market Harborough direct access to Bedford, Luton, Luton Airport without having to change at Kettering which would restore direct links that will be lost under the incoming timetable.

Surely a simpler, cheaper way is to provide a good Kettering connection that is well advertised.