Police checking travel

[Philip]

Is this a serious post?

If so, this demonstrates perfectly how disconnected from reality the authoritarian pro-lockdown camp is.

It is more a case of people just doing their bit to help the health service situation, for a few months, or not doing silly things which could potentially make it worse. Nothing to do with being authoritarian. They shouldn't have made that trip, it was against the current rules and as I say they increase the chances of them requiring the service of the NHS.

 

[yorkie]

It is more a case of people just doing their bit to help the health service situation, for a few months, or not doing silly things which could potentially make it worse. Nothing to do with being authoritarian.

It is blatant authoritarianism.

What you call "silly things" are normal lawful activities.

Certainly NOT what the council says here in Dorset. Exercise is in your own town or village ONLY.
Shopping slightly different in rural settings as even here in Swanage it is a 40 mile round trip to the nearest Tesco or Asda.

The council doesn't make the law

I understand you can drive a reasonable distance, say 10 miles (very arbitrary) to exercise. Does this extend to using a bus too? I live about that distance from open moorland and hills and would really like to spend a day there rather than walking on concrete pavements....

Go for it; there will be fewer people around on the Moors. It is lawful.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

It is more a case of people just doing their bit to help the health service situation, for a few months, or not doing silly things which could potentially make it worse. Nothing to do with being authoritarian.

We have been under restrictions for 10 months now, what does a day trip in the snow cost on the whole?

If you're happy to exist rather than (try to) live under restrictions, that's perfectly fine by me, but please don't force it onto others.

 

[johnnychips]

What annoys me is that most police officers I have met are excellent professional people. They must be really annoyed that the idiots - rightly so - highlighted on social media, suggest that they are all ‘PC Plod’ stereotypes.

 

[Richard Scott]

It is more a case of people just doing their bit to help the health service situation, for a few months, or not doing silly things which could potentially make it worse. Nothing to do with being authoritarian. They shouldn't have made that trip, it was against the current rules and as I say they increase the chances of them requiring the service of the NHS.

I've done more than my bit over the last 10 months and am fed up with this being trotted out over and over again. You carry on doing whatever you feel is right but stop judging others without full information about the situation.

 

[Philip]

We have been under restrictions for 10 months now, what does a day trip in the snow cost on the whole?

If you're happy to exist rather than (try to) live under restrictions, that's perfectly fine by me, but please don't force it onto others.

I just recognise the situation we are in and the need for some temporary lifestyle changes as a result of the restrictions. And people together should be doing the same. That isn't being authoritarian.

 

[Richard Scott]

I just recognise the situation we are in and the need for some temporary lifestyle changes as a result of the restrictions. And people together should be doing the same. That isn't being authoritarian.

10 months is not temporary in my book.

 

[bramling]

I think right now we do have to think about ways to reduce the likelihood of being a burden on the NHS, as the NHS is in a critical situation; and the lifting of lockdown depends on this situation improving.

I agree we should think about it, however that doesn’t mean we should wall ourselves up indoors (which isn’t itself risk-free). Life is about risk management, not elimination. I wouldn’t go scrambling across Crib Goch at this time, but a drive somewhere shouldn’t need to be a major issue.

The logical conclusion of not being a burden on the NHS is that we all take a cyanide pill and stop living altogether, none of us would risk being a burden on the NHS then.

Likewise I don’t think we should buy the line that if everyone complies then we get out of lockdown sooner. Notwithstanding the fact that some people keep wanting to shift the goalposts, generally people did comply with the first lockdown - or at least with the bits which mattered anyway. What did that do for us?

This will be over in one of three ways - when enough of the right sorts of people are vaccinated (lockdown will have zero impact on that), if herd immunity is reached (ignoring lockdown restrictions might actually speed up reaching that point), or if there’s a political acceptance that we have to live with a level of mortality as Whitty has been starting to allude to. Whether you or I drive to Bournemouth beach isn’t going to make any difference to that, though there is a valid argument that these sorts of places shouldn’t be allowed to be swamped, though one way to help that is having a multiplicity of places for people to go and be spread out - closing non-essential shops for example has reduced the number of venues for people to go, and if they were supposedly “Covid safe” then what’s the issue?

 

[Philip]

10 months is not temporary in my book.

Compared to what other countries are facing as a result of the pandemic, yes it is.

 

[Richard Scott]

Compared to what other countries are facing as a result of the pandemic, yes it is.

Such as? I may as well be completely selfish here but I don't live in other countries, I live in this one and afraid 10 months is not temporary. You can carry on enjoying all this for as long as you want, some of us as fed up with silly restrictions that have no scientific basis and seeing people's wellbeing go to pot.

 

[bramling]

10 months is not temporary in my book.

No it isn’t. 2020 was an almost complete write-off for me, barring two weeks in Wales during October which to be honest still didn’t allow us to do all what we wanted. Apart from that it was a complete year of my life I will never get back. 2021 isn’t looking promising, I’m now more or less resigned to the spring and early summer being messed up. July and August is no use to me. So essentially we’re looking at two years. Certainly not temporary, none of knows how long we have left.

Someone at my work retired last spring after nearly 50 years service. 50 years looking forward to retirement, and when it happens the whole first year of it has been completely wasted. As he says, he doesn’t know how long he has left, and every year he’s getting older. A disgrace that he’s now more or less confined to the living room watching the news all day long, unable to do all the things he’s waited 50 years to do, just so Karen up the road can continue WFH.

 

[Cowley]

Someone at my work retired last spring after nearly 50 years service. 50 years looking forward to retirement, and when it happens the whole first year of it has been completely wasted. As he says, he doesn’t know how long he has left, and every year he’s getting older. A disgrace that he’s now more or less confined to the living room watching the news all day long, unable to do all the things he’s waited 50 years to do, just so Karen up the road can continue WFH.

I’m going to let the Karen thing go this time @bramling. Because there’s an important point here that needs to be said.
One of my best friends lost his father to a heart attack this year on New Years Day, not Covid related, just one of those things.
He told me that due to all of the restrictions this last year he only saw his Dad five times in 2020.
My Dad is the same age. My Dad has also had heart problems over the years as well as skin cancer issues requiring regular treatment. I also have only seen him five times over the last year, so please don’t tell me that 12 months (or even two years) is just a temporary nothing, because it isn’t when you need to make the most of the time you can with the generation that won’t be around for ever.
I won’t get the time back with my Dad because once it’s gone it’s gone and that isn’t something that’s easy to deal with at times.

 

[bramling]

I’m going to let the Karen thing go this time @bramling. Because there’s an important point here that needs to be said.
One of my best friends lost his father to a heart attack this year on New Years Day, not Covid related, just one of those things.
He told me that due to all of the restrictions this last year he only saw his Dad five times in 2020.
My Dad is the same age. My Dad has also had heart problems over the years as well as skin cancer issues requiring regular treatment. I also have only seen him five times over the last year, so please don’t tell me that 12 months (or even two years) is just a temporary nothing, because it isn’t when you need to make the most of the time you can with the generation that won’t be around for ever.
I won’t get the time back with my Dad because once it’s gone it’s gone and that isn’t something that’s easy to deal with at times.

Absolutely. There’s been an uncanny amount of deaths this year from non-Covid causes, and I don’t attribute this to NHS pressure as many of these people seem not to have even got to the point of NHS care. In some cases these are people who had just recently retired. As you say, little or no contact with their relatives, just a miserable life subject to lockdown.

I was happy to embrace lockdown as an emergency measure whilst we implemented a longer term strategy, and perhaps as a short-term attempt at elimination. It is completely unacceptable and unviable as a longer term measure.

I know Karen is a bit of a tedious term, but it angers me that a particular subset of people want to drive this for what are essentially nefarious and self-benefitting reasons.

 

[Freightmaster]

I just recognise the situation we are in and the need for some temporary lifestyle changes as a result of the restrictions.

That's nice for you.

And people together should be doing the same. That isn't being authoritarian.

Telling people you do not know personally what they "should" be doing because you are scared
of the virus is most certainly authoritarian, I'm afraid...






MARK

 

[Bantamzen]

It's not just about reducing spread of the virus, it's about minimizing the risk and strain on the NHS in general; they didn't need to make that trip, what if they crashed in the snow and had to be taken to hospital?

What if they had slipped on ice taking the rubbish out? Best not do that then. What if they had fallen down the stairs? Best not do that either then.

Let's clear one thing up here. The NHS is a service that we pay for with out taxes, it is not some charity or a poorly puppy. We do not need to feel responsible or guilty for what happens with it, the responsibility and liability lies solely with the government. We should not be expecting elderly veterans to be walking around their gardens for it, we don not need to stand outside our homes banging pots for it, and we must not curtail our lives to "protect" it. The NHS is where it is because of decisions made by successive governments, not just because of covid. The NHS has these kind of issues almost every year for one reason or another, and it is up to the government to step up to their responsibilities instead of laying the blame at the public's door. The more the "Stay home, save the NHS" crap is repeated, the more the government are encouraged to do nothing.

 

[yorksrob]

Absolutely. There’s been an uncanny amount of deaths this year from non-Covid causes, and I don’t attribute this to NHS pressure as many of these people seem not to have even got to the point of NHS care. In some cases these are people who had just recently retired. As you say, little or no contact with their relatives, just a miserable life subject to lockdown.

I was happy to embrace lockdown as an emergency measure whilst we implemented a longer term strategy, and perhaps as a short-term attempt at elimination. It is completely unacceptable and unviable as a longer term measure.

Absolutely spot on. None of us knows how long we or our relatives have left.

Lockdown was acceptable as a temporary measure while the Government worked out what to do and businesses put in place measures. This continual reliance on lockdown by SAGE, the main parties and the "if only everyone followed the rules, the pandemic would go away" brigade, is an unacceptable failure to come up with a strategy to enable people maintain the most basic level of human interaction and recreation.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2021 ==

What if they had slipped on ice taking the rubbish out? Best not do that then. What if they had fallen down the stairs? Best not do that either then.

Let's clear one thing up here. The NHS is a service that we pay for with out taxes, it is not some charity or a poorly puppy. We do not need to feel responsible or guilty for what happens with it, the responsibility and liability lies solely with the government. We should not be expecting elderly veterans to be walking around their gardens for it, we don not need to stand outside our homes banging pots for it, and we must not curtail our lives to "protect" it. The NHS is where it is because of decisions made by successive governments, not just because of covid. The NHS has these kind of issues almost every year for one reason or another, and it is up to the government to step up to their responsibilities instead of laying the blame at the public's door. The more the "Stay home, save the NHS" crap is repeated, the more the government are encouraged to do nothing.

Indeed. The NHS needs searching questions asked about how successive Governments have managed it in the past, and what they are going to do about its structural shortfalls in the near future, not sentimentality and rainbows.

 

[Mag_seven]

Right folks I've detected that we may be drifting off topic a little bit so I request that we get back to talking about police checking travel.

Thanks

 

[Philip]

That's nice for you.



Telling people you do not know personally what they "should" be doing because you are scared
of the virus is most certainly authoritarian, I'm afraid...






MARK

What if they had slipped on ice taking the rubbish out? Best not do that then. What if they had fallen down the stairs? Best not do that either then.

Let's clear one thing up here. The NHS is a service that we pay for with out taxes, it is not some charity or a poorly puppy. We do not need to feel responsible or guilty for what happens with it, the responsibility and liability lies solely with the government. We should not be expecting elderly veterans to be walking around their gardens for it, we don not need to stand outside our homes banging pots for it, and we must not curtail our lives to "protect" it. The NHS is where it is because of decisions made by successive governments, not just because of covid. The NHS has these kind of issues almost every year for one reason or another, and it is up to the government to step up to their responsibilities instead of laying the blame at the public's door. The more the "Stay home, save the NHS" crap is repeated, the more the government are encouraged to do nothing.

I am not scared of the virus and I am not happy about being in lockdown for various reasons. But I accept it as a temporary necessary measure whilst we're in this critical situation of the virus being out of control in the communities. Expecting the general public to also observe the restrictions reasonably well is not being 'authoritarian' as some people seem to keep piping on about in this thread, it is because we're in this together and we all need to play our part to get out of it by helping to drive down infection rates and admissions, whilst vaccination is still in its early days. So yes it is annoying when you see blatant breaches like some of the examples we've heard of, as this is not playing your part. All this does is contributes towards lockdown potentially being extended as it increases the transmission, and so we all suffer as a result. That is why the police need to get tough in some circumstances; yes there should absolutely be discretion, but examples like the family going for a long drive out to look at snow shouldn't be in the discretion category.

I am fed up of hearing people say we have been in lockdown for 10 months; we have been in lockdown for about 4 months in total. The period from June to November last year wasn't lockdown. I am also fed up about hearing this 'authoritarian' word being branded about casually towards anyone who thinks lockdown is currently necessary, and towards the police who are just doing their job. I agree that for a minority of officers this has become a power trip and this isn't acceptable, but the majority are doing what they've been told to do and I bet a fair few are both fed up of having to enforce restrictions and having to deal with people who are blatantly ignoring them.

 

[Bantamzen]

I am not scared of the virus and I am not happy about being in lockdown for various reasons. But I accept it as a temporary necessary measure whilst we're in this critical situation of the virus being out of control in the communities. Expecting the general public to also observe the restrictions reasonably well is not being 'authoritarian' as some people seem to keep piping on about in this thread, it is because we're in this together and we all need to play our part to get out of it by helping to drive down infection rates and admissions, whilst vaccination is still in its early days. So yes it is annoying when you see blatant breaches like some of the examples we've heard of, as this is not playing your part. All this does is contributes towards lockdown potentially being extended as it increases the transmission, and so we all suffer as a result. That is why the police need to get tough in some circumstances; yes there should absolutely be discretion, but examples like the family going for a long drive out to look at snow shouldn't be in the discretion category.

I am fed up of hearing people say we have been in lockdown for 10 months; we have been in lockdown for about 4 months in total. The period from June to November last year wasn't lockdown. I am also fed up about hearing this 'authoritarian' word being branded about casually towards anyone who thinks lockdown is currently necessary, and towards the police who are just doing their job. I agree that for a minority of officers this has become a power trip and this isn't acceptable, but the majority are doing what they've been told to do and I bet a fair few are both fed up of having to enforce restrictions and having to deal with people who are blatantly ignoring them.

You mean like the police officers that have also been ignoring the restrictions?

 

[yorksrob]

I am not scared of the virus and I am not happy about being in lockdown for various reasons. But I accept it as a temporary necessary measure whilst we're in this critical situation of the virus being out of control in the communities. Expecting the general public to also observe the restrictions reasonably well is not being 'authoritarian' as some people seem to keep piping on about in this thread, it is because we're in this together and we all need to play our part to get out of it by helping to drive down infection rates and admissions, whilst vaccination is still in its early days. So yes it is annoying when you see blatant breaches like some of the examples we've heard of, as this is not playing your part. All this does is contributes towards lockdown potentially being extended as it increases the transmission, and so we all suffer as a result. That is why the police need to get tough in some circumstances; yes there should absolutely be discretion, but examples like the family going for a long drive out to look at snow shouldn't be in the discretion category.

I am fed up of hearing people say we have been in lockdown for 10 months; we have been in lockdown for about 4 months in total. The period from June to November last year wasn't lockdown. I am also fed up about hearing this 'authoritarian' word being branded about casually towards anyone who thinks lockdown is currently necessary, and towards the police who are just doing their job. I agree that for a minority of officers this has become a power trip and this isn't acceptable, but the majority I doing what they've been told to do and I bet a fair few are both fed up of having to enforce restrictions and having to deal with people who are blatantly ignoring them.

I don't accept that at all.

Looking at the experience quoted, I'd need to see a lot more evidence that prohibiting the action taken (a family driving out of their locality to look at the snow) will have a tangeble positive effect on numbers than some wishy-washy "something might happen so someone might end up in hospital" type scenario.

We are not "all in it together". We all have different circumstances. The concentration on local activity is particularly insidious for people whose support network is slightly further afield.

We haven't all been in lockdown for four months. Some areas have been in lockdown for much longer.

 

[birchesgreen]

Indeed we arn't all in together. Some people's local areas (which we are supposed to stay in) are a lot nicer than others. Maybe every few months we could all do a bit of a shuffle around to give everyone a bit of variety. I am quite happy to exchange my local area of grey and grimy North Brum industrial units for a leafy Surrey village!

 

[Philip]

You mean like the police officers that have also been ignoring the restrictions?

I don't accept that at all.

Looking at the experience quoted, I'd need to see a lot more evidence that prohibiting the action taken (a family driving out of their locality to look at the snow) will have a tangeble positive effect on numbers than some wishy-washy "something might happen so someone might end up in hospital" type scenario.

We are not "all in it together". We all have different circumstances. The concentration on local activity is particularly insidious for people whose support network is slightly further afield.

We haven't all been in lockdown for four months. Some areas have been in lockdown for much longer.

A small minority of police officers have been ignoring the restrictions, as has been reported on the news. The vast majority haven't been and it is an unnecessary thing to bring up in this context, splitting hairs.

They have to go with a general message/law about essential travel only with valid exemptions, if the government start going down the route of allowing travel depending on the risk of it causing transmission then the whole thing gets even more muddled up and confusing. Clearly people having to travel in relation to their support network is a valid reason to travel, so it doesn't compare to people just 'going out for a long drive for a jolly'.

Tier 3 isn't lockdown either as there were no laws against travel within the country for tier 3.

 

[yorksrob]

Indeed we arn't all in together. Some people's local areas (which we are supposed to stay in) are a lot nicer than others. Maybe every few months we could all do a bit of a shuffle around to give everyone a bit of variety. I am quite happy to exchange my local area of grey and grimy North Brum industrial units for a leafy Surrey village!

I think a lot of people underestimate how important a simple change of scene can be to people's wellbeing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Jan 2021 ==

They have to go with a general message/law about essential travel only with valid exemptions, if the government start going down the route of allowing travel depending on the risk of it causing transmission then the whole thing gets even more muddled up and confusing. Clearly people having to travel in relation to their support network is a valid reason to travel, so it doesn't compare to people just 'going out for a long drive for a jolly'.

"Essential travel only" however one defines it, doesn't need to be overcomplicated by a distance limit at all.

 

[Richard Scott]

I am fed up of hearing people say we have been in lockdown for 10 months; we have been in lockdown for about 4 months in total.

Are you, never mind? I'm fed up of restrictions/lockdown whatever you want to call it. A friend of mine lives in Bolton and has effectively been in lockdown for 9 months with the restrictions they've had there, that's how he feels any way. Why is this virus the most important thing? We're now seeing huge increases in mental health issues. The police now seem to just want to carry out the easy task of stopping people travelling a few miles rather than dealing with real issues. To be honest so what is someone drives for an hour to go for a walk. They're not out having a big party. Get reports of so called covidiots going to Brecon Beacons, well why is that a problem? Not all huddled together, this country needs to get a grip and police need to do their job properly not worry about families trying to improve their wellbeing.

 

[VauxhallandI]

I think right now we do have to think about ways to reduce the likelihood of being a burden on the NHS, as the NHS is in a critical situation; and the lifting of lockdown depends on this situation improving.

I think we need to educate that it’s attitudes like this are as dangerous as the people having parties.

“Look into the eyes of the depressed child and tell them they can’t go out”

 

[Bantamzen]

A small minority of police officers have been ignoring the restrictions, as has been reported on the news. The vast majority haven't been and it is an unnecessary thing to bring up in this context, splitting hairs.

They have to go with a general message/law about essential travel only with valid exemptions, if the government start going down the route of allowing travel depending on the risk of it causing transmission then the whole thing gets even more muddled up and confusing. Clearly people having to travel in relation to their support network is a valid reason to travel, so it doesn't compare to people just 'going out for a long drive for a jolly'.

Tier 3 isn't lockdown either as there were no laws against travel within the country for tier 3.

Its not splitting hairs at all, the fact that a number of them have been ignoring the rules shows that even they feel the rules go too far, which they do. The Police are there to protect us from criminals, murderers, terrorists and the like, not chasing people going for a drive to look at some snow.

 

[43096]

It is more a case of people just doing their bit to help the health service situation, for a few months, or not doing silly things which could potentially make it worse. Nothing to do with being authoritarian. They shouldn't have made that trip, it was against the current rules and as I say they increase the chances of them requiring the service of the NHS.

If we want to do more to help the NHS, then I'd suggest being sat at home in a lockdown is not the way to do it. It means (as a starter), less exercise, which increases the chance of ill health (heart problems, weight gain etc etc) = more chance of needing NHS treatment; in many cases it also means an increase in mental health issues = more chance of needing NHS treatment.

You haven't really considered that, have you?

 

[Philip]

If we want to do more to help the NHS, then I'd suggest being sat at home in a lockdown is not the way to do it. It means (as a starter), less exercise, which increases the chance of ill health (heart problems, weight gain etc etc) = more chance of needing NHS treatment; in many cases it also means an increase in mental health issues = more chance of needing NHS treatment.

You haven't really considered that, have you?

People can go out to exercise, that has been made clear in the restrictions. No point in exaggerating to try and get the point across. And in terms of mental health/wellbeing, there is a balancing act needed and the mental and physical wellbeing of doctors and nurses who are working under huge pressure and no doubt with a lot of stressful and upsetting experiences, this also needs to be considered.

 

[43096]

People can go out to exercise, that has been made clear in the restrictions. No point in exaggerating to try and get the point across.

The messaging from Government doesn't encourage it. It's much more at the "if you go out you will die/you will kill someone else" end of the spectrum.

 

[Philip]

The messaging from Government doesn't encourage it. It's much more at the "if you go out you will die/you will kill someone else" end of the spectrum.

Well that's your interpretation, but I don't see that at all.