Train numbers should be displayed in public timetables and information systems

[StephenHunter]

I think there is a definite case for headcodes or something similar being used on Intercity trains, akin to flights. Less so on turn up and go services.

 

[markymark2000]

I think there is a definite case for headcodes or something similar being used on Intercity trains, akin to flights. Less so on turn up and go services.

Companies who don't do seat reservations or advance tickets have no need to change to showing headcodes really since those are the 2 main beneficiaries of such a change. There are journey planning benefits but primarily, it's longer distance trains with people possibly needing the code to confirm they are on the correct train noted on their ticket.

 

[Ken H]

I have been looking at continental train timetables on timetableworld(dot)com,
In the modern age, they all have rows for the train number, even for local trains.
And you see this same number on station PIS.
They all obviously think this is worth doing, and passengers understand them.


So why do we not do the same here? It would help when there are fast and slow trains on the same route. And help when there is disruption.
And make sure people with reservations get the right train.

Any thoughts.

(This is in the UK thread as the questions are why dont we do it here, not why do the continental railways do it.)

 

[PeterC]

Not invented here

 

[Clip]

Whenever I travel someone more exotic than the Fylde coast I always have an itinerary with my booked train from Preston on it.

So my train always comes into platform 2 and I walk over the bridge to the main entrance to check my itinerary to match up the train times and then the platform number.

It's a simple solution.

What does a train number add to such a simple way of doing things?

 

[Ken H]

Whenever I travel someone more exotic than the Fylde coast I always have an itinerary with my booked train from Preston on it.

So my train always comes into platform 2 and I walk over the bridge to the main entrance to check my itinerary to match up the train times and then the platform number.

It's a simple solution.

What does a train number add to such a simple way of doing things?

so west coast timetable has fallen to bits, how are you sure you are getting the train with your reservation, for which your ticket is valid?

I have a ticket from Leeds to Birmingham, and dont have a map of rail geography in my head. How do I know to get on a Plymough train. if my itinerary/reservation said 1W34 then i could be sure I was on the right train.

I am meeting my grand-daughter at Lancaster on a disrupted west coast. She tells me she is on 1S42. I can see from the PIS/my phone when it comes in and be ready for her.

 

[Uk125]

sorry to ask this but what is PIS?

 

[JonathanH]

Reporting codes aren't necessarily the best thing for this purpose in disruption, particularly for long distance services, for example where a service restarts as 1Zxx because the original service has been delayed.

The four digit Retail ID may be better.

There was a discussion about this three months back.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/passenger-information-displays-should-show-headcodes.210325/#post-4826940

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2021 ==

sorry to ask this but what is PIS?

Passenger information system

 

[Lewis5949]

PIS is Passenger Information System. At least on my TOC this refers to the dot matrix screens and verbal announcements on trains. We call the displays on platforms and stations CIS or Customer Information System.

I think the structure of our headcode system here is a bit too complicated and a mixed bag for it to be worth doing here. The first number can be a bit whacky and feels like there are too many codes for freight that could be used to split out some passenger services, and some are labelled as train types I don't agree with, the letter makes sense but can vary and do not change with short notice diversions and are often Z on engineering works, and the last two numbers aren't even in any order that at least I can see. I don't think there's enough value in showing headcodes for the UK personally

 

[SargeNpton]

Reporting codes aren't necessarily the best thing for this purpose in disruption, particularly for long distance services, for example where a service restarts as 1Zxx because the original service has been delayed.

The four digit Retail ID may be better.

There was a discussion about this three months back.

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/passenger-information-displays-should-show-headcodes.210325/#post-4826940

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 20 Jan 2021 ==


Passenger information system

The 6-character Retail ID would better still. Voyagers and Pendolinos had fields for it on their coach-side electronic displays, but Virgin/Avanti don't make use of it. Not sure whether CrossCountry does.

 

[Clip]

so west coast timetable has fallen to bits, how are you sure you are getting the train with your reservation, for which your ticket is valid?

I have a ticket from Leeds to Birmingham, and dont have a map of rail geography in my head. How do I know to get on a Plymough train. if my itinerary/reservation said 1W34 then i could be sure I was on the right train.

I am meeting my grand-daughter at Lancaster on a disrupted west coast. She tells me she is on 1S42. I can see from the PIS/my phone when it comes in and be ready for her.

If the west coast mainline falls to bits they have plans, indeed it's written in the conditions of travel, to take the next train or RRB if applicable.

If your itinerary had the headcode and that train was pulled due to a set fault and another was used then another headcode would be used iirc so you would be looking for a train that doesn't exist.

If your daughter was on a delayed train whilst you were waiting at Lancaster then you would know what time she was meant to arrive and compare it to the train you know she is on with the arrivals board which will have the ETA on it.

 

[Ianno87]

Whenever I travel someone more exotic than the Fylde coast I always have an itinerary with my booked train from Preston on it.

So my train always comes into platform 2 and I walk over the bridge to the main entrance to check my itinerary to match up the train times and then the platform number.

It's a simple solution.

What does a train number add to such a simple way of doing things?

As useful as the "European" system is, it would be a massive cultural shift for the UK, who are used to just looking at the departure time and destination. Seems like an awful lot of pain to change to fix a relatively minor problem.

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Not invented here

TfL can do it with the buses; i.e. publish the registration number

 

[geoffk]

Didn't the old Southern Region put the two-digit codes at the head of columns for a while? Regular commuters knew them so someone from say Tunbridge Wells knew a 22 train was for Charing Cross and a 33 for Cannon Street. These numbers were used several times across the SR divisions. That was in the days when the code actually appeared on the front of the train, of course.

 

[D6130]

Didn't the old Southern Region put the two-digit codes at the head of columns for a while? Regular commuters knew them so someone from say Tunbridge Wells knew a 22 train was for Charing Cross and a 33 for Cannon Street. These numbers were used several times across the SR divisions. That was in the days when the code actually appeared on the front of the train, of course.

That is very true.....and furthermore the Scottish Region timetables showed the two-digit headcodes for the Glasgow area suburban electric "Blue Train" services. This network was also the first to feature a modern-looking eye-catching logo at stations and on the covers of timetables - the intertwined yellow and blue arrows representing the pantograph and the converging banks of the River Clyde.

 

[Sunset route]

Didn't the old Southern Region put the two-digit codes at the head of columns for a while? Regular commuters knew them so someone from say Tunbridge Wells knew a 22 train was for Charing Cross and a 33 for Cannon Street. These numbers were used several times across the SR divisions. That was in the days when the code actually appeared on the front of the train, of course.

That’s when the headcodes were actually the headcodes and not the modern corruption where people both inside and outside the industry now call the WWT train IDs headcodes these days.

 

[ANDREW_D_WEBB]

Crossrail trains have the class 9 head codes on the external destination displays.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Didn't the old Southern Region put the two-digit codes at the head of columns for a while? Regular commuters knew them so someone from say Tunbridge Wells knew a 22 train was for Charing Cross and a 33 for Cannon Street. These numbers were used several times across the SR divisions. That was in the days when the code actually appeared on the front of the train, of course.

That is very true.....and furthermore the Scottish Region timetables showed the two-digit headcodes for the Glasgow area suburban electric "Blue Train" services. This network was also the first to feature a modern-looking eye-catching logo at stations and on the covers of timetables - the intertwined yellow and blue arrows representing the pantograph and the converging banks of the River Clyde.

Both of these were in the days before 'information systems' and even public address at most stations. These two character codes weren't always helpful. They might tell you that a train was going via Hounslow or Singer or whatever but they didn't necessarily mean that it was stopping at a particular small station that was often skipped.

 

[OVS Flatbottom]

CIÉ used train numbers in their public timetables from the early 1970s until at least 1983; see the 1973 and 1983 timetables, plus the Irish pages in the 1973 and 1979 Cook's. I've no idea why they were done away with. (I don't think they reflected any internal system of reporting numbers, because I don't know of anything like that prior to the introduction of Centralised Traffic Control in 1977, and the reporting numbers used afterwards had an alphanumeric format, whereas the ones in the timetables were numbers only - but I could be wrong about this.)

 

[norbitonflyer]

the last two numbers aren't even in any order that at least I can see. I don't think there's enough value in showing headcodes for the UK personally

They usually go up sequentially - odds in one direction, evens in the other

 

[Clip]

As useful as the "European" system is, it would be a massive cultural shift for the UK, who are used to just looking at the departure time and destination. Seems like an awful lot of pain to change to fix a relatively minor problem.

Very true. Why change something we are used to just because it's done elsewhere.

Strange concept.

 

[vlad]

You get people travelling from Manchester to Sheffield on Northern, despite the fact they've got a ticket valid for a specific TPE train, with the departure time printed on the ticket. I don't see how adding train numbers is going to stop people getting a different train, leaving at a different time, from a different platform, from a different operator, from the one they should have.

 

[pdeaves]

As I see it, every train has a useful four digit and alphabetical code on the screens that happens to coincide with the departure time and destination...

 

[StephenHunter]

It would definitely be a good idea for Intercity services.