New lockdown in England, including school closures, announced by Johnson, 4/1/21

[yorksrob]

I don’t know, to be honest I’d be pretty enraged if I can’t get my planned holidays this year for any reason, the hotels being stuffed full of pensioners being one of those! To mitigate against this, I’ve made a load of refundable block-bookings, which also gives some flexibility regarding weather. I’m not sure there will in any case be that much demand for holidays in Swansea, Port Talbot or Newcastle...

I suspect it’s unlikely hotels will turn away unvaccinated people. Judging by what I’ve seen on a few hotel Facebook pages recently, and from conversations when I was in Wales last October, I don’t think hotels will be wanting to restrict people. But wait for the pensioners to pressure for unvaccinated people not to be allowed in places that they wish to grace with their presence. I bet we’ll see at least elements of that.

I expect that so long as we have relaxation similar to last summer, hotels will be taking bookings from anyone regardless of vaccination. The limiting factor will be how safe people feel. I doubt that pensioners will be as vociferous or organised as you fear on this respect.

 

[C J Snarzell]

I don’t know, to be honest I’d be pretty enraged if I can’t get my planned holidays this year for any reason, the hotels being stuffed full of pensioners being one of those! To mitigate against this, I’ve made a load of refundable block-bookings, which also gives some flexibility regarding weather. I’m not sure there will in any case be that much demand for holidays in Swansea, Port Talbot or Newcastle...

I suspect it’s unlikely hotels will turn away unvaccinated people. Judging by what I’ve seen on a few hotel Facebook pages recently, and from conversations when I was in Wales last October, I don’t think hotels will be wanting to restrict people. But wait for the pensioners to pressure for unvaccinated people not to be allowed in places that they wish to grace with their presence. I bet we’ll see at least elements of that.

A good point, but from a business point of view the hospitality industry has been savaged during the last ten months. Hotels and B&Bs are not going to turn away customers because they haven't been vaccinated.

I have a feeling that some of the older generation (only a small minority) will start lording it up over the rest of us once they've been vaccinated. It'll be like ''I can go there, but you can't because you haven't had your jab!''

CJ

 

[duncanp]

A good point, but from a business point of view the hospitality industry has been savaged during the last ten months. Hotels and B&Bs are not going to turn away customers because they haven't been vaccinated.

I have a feeling that some of the older generation (only a small minority) will start lording it up over the rest of us once they've been vaccinated. It'll be like ''I can go there, but you can't because you haven't had your jab!''

CJ

I also think that the hospitality and leisure industry will not be turning customers away simply because they have not been vaccinated.

They just can't afford to, having been closed or restricted for so long.

In any case, what would be accepted as proof of vaccination?

If it is just a piece of paper, it would be easy enough to forge a "vaccination certificate".

Even e-mails and other electronic forms of proof can be forged by someone with the requisite knowledge.

I would hope that the government makes it illegal to discriminate against someone who has not been vaccinated.

 

[Bantamzen]

No, I need to repeat it as that's the case. No need for any discussions, I'm afraid. Kids need school, full stop! As for two week closure before Christmas local school near enough was, didn't change anything, still kept it closed. The wider implications seem very overstated to me as I put earlier what difference does it make if kids pick it up anyway? Quite a few around here have and not had any detrimental affect on anyone else. Instead of going on about they'll be thousands of deaths we need to get a grip on reality and stop treating this like impending Armageddon.

Exactly this. Schools are not just about teaching subject matter, they are where the next generations form their social skills & relationships with other kids. Its where they learn to interact with their peers and form disciplines that will allow them to function in society. Taking that away from them isn't only wrong, in a way its a form of psychological abuse, especially when paired with blaming them for the spread. Goodness knows what damage we have done to kids, I know my 13 year old niece now lives in total fear of being responsible for killing someone. It is just not right.

 

[yorkie]

Instead of just repeating the same thing ad infinitum you would be better thinking through the wider implications. It is precisely because people, and the government, took your view in December and kept schools open when they should have obviously been closed we are now in the current situation. A 2 week early closure for Christmas could, and almost certainly would, have prevented the current 6 week closure. It would have also prevented a lot of deaths and a lot of needless disruption to other people's lives.

I see no evidence for this

If you look at the age profile of positive tests, there isn't evidence of a lot of transmission at school age (5-16).

Even if there was, the idea that a 2 week school closure would have prevented a 6 week full lockdown seems fanciful

 

[chris11256]

According to reports the easing of lockdown will start in early spring and will be a return to the tiers system. To be taken out of lock down a region must have a fall in deaths, fall in hospital admissions and some aged 50-70 vaccinated.

Lockdown set to be lifted in March but 'it won't happen in one big bang' and Tiers system will return, says Dominic Raab (thesun.co.uk)
It comes after a cabinet deal was done to approve a three-point plan for lifting the coronavirus lockdown by early spring.
In order for measures to be eased, an area's death rate must fall, the number of hospital admissions must drop and some in the 50 to 70-year-old age range must be vaccinated.

The quote is the Sun, but they're putting stuff together from Raab doing interviews this morning and from the headline article in the Times yesterday, which said a similar thing. The Times article talked about cabinet agreement that easing of restrictions couldn't wait until everyone had been vaccinated. It's further down in this article, but behind a paywall.

All arrivals to UK face hotel quarantine to stop new Covid strains | News | The Sunday Times (thetimes.co.uk)
Ministers have ordered plans to be drawn up for a fresh crackdown at Britain’s borders to stop new variants of the coronavirus undermining the vaccination effort.
Officials have been told to prepare for the creation of quarantine hotels for those arriving in Britain and to use GPS and facial-recognition technology to check that people are staying in isolation.

Apparently this time there's broad agreement rather than pro lockdown & anti lockdown camps within cabinet, with ministers saying privately that they're willing to go against SAGE on this.

If you head to the BBC news paper headlines, or Sky news paper headlines you can see the Times front page.

 

[Richard Scott]

According to reports the easing of lockdown will start in early spring and will be a return to the tiers system. To be taken out of lock down a region must have a fall in deaths, fall in hospital admissions and some aged 50-70 vaccinated.

So goal posts have moved again, what a surprise.

 

[chris11256]

I think the government was never going to change anything in February. Early spring is late march anyway, so times with the lock down legislation expiring.

 

[yorksrob]

Late March is too late. They should be getting rid of "stay at home" before then, if nothing else.

 

[Class 33]

Late March could possibly have some decent warm weather(like some other years). If the "Stay at home" nonsense is STILL going then, I don't think many people atall will be sticking to that. They'll want to get out and about and enjoy the decent weather, not stuck at home!

 

[philosopher]

According to reports the easing of lockdown will start in early spring and will be a return to the tiers system. To be taken out of lock down a region must have a fall in deaths, fall in hospital admissions and some aged 50-70 vaccinated.



The quote is the Sun, but they're putting stuff together from Raab doing interviews this morning and from the headline article in the Times yesterday, which said a similar thing. The Times article talked about cabinet agreement that easing of restrictions couldn't wait until everyone had been vaccinated. It's further down in this article, but behind a paywall.



Apparently this time there's broad agreement rather than pro lockdown & anti lockdown camps within cabinet, with ministers saying privately that they're willing to go against SAGE on this.

If you head to the BBC news paper headlines, or Sky news paper headlines you can see the Times front page.

I think in mid March everywhere will be moved to Tier 3 as mid March will be exactly a year after the government introduced these restrictions. Boris will then be able to say that this March life is returning to normal (albeit slowly) while this time last year life was being putting on hold.

Late March is too late. They should be getting rid of "stay at home" before then, if nothing else.

I am hoping they will move to a lockdown similar to November by the end of Feb in which outdoor recreation is permitted and the ‘Stay at Home’ message is replaced by a ‘Stay Alert’ or similar message. I am not expecting anything more before mid March though.

 

[DustyBin]

I fear that having been in lockdown for a couple of months, people will be too easily placated with tiers 3 and 2. These do not represent any kind of normality (nor does tier 1 for that matter) and we mustn’t lose sight of that. Whilst I’m sure we’d all welcome any relaxation in restrictions, returning to normality means just that. We mustn’t forget how we lived only 12 months ago.

 

[chris11256]

I fear that having been in lockdown for a couple of months, people will be too easily placated with tiers 3 and 2. These do not represent any kind of normality (nor does tier 1 for that matter) and we mustn’t lose sight of that. Whilst I’m sure we’d all welcome any relaxation in restrictions, returning to normality means just that. We mustn’t forget how we lived only 12 months ago.

Exactly! I'd put up with tiers for spring perhaps, but by summer I want all restrictions/social distancing gone. Except perhaps keeping the requirement for a negative test before entering the country, just while other countries ramp up their vaccine rollouts.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I fear that having been in lockdown for a couple of months, people will be too easily placated with tiers 3 and 2. These do not represent any kind of normality (nor does tier 1 for that matter) and we mustn’t lose sight of that. Whilst I’m sure we’d all welcome any relaxation in restrictions, returning to normality means just that. We mustn’t forget how we lived only 12 months ago.

I certainly won't be placated by Tier 3 or Tier 2 for any period longer than a few weeks, which would be simply to avoid a big release all at once.

Both 2 and 3 banned household mixing, banned socialising indoors, banned hospitality and some tourism venues operating normally etc.

As someone living alone and in an area which has been under "additional restrictions" of some sort or another since August last year moving to Tier 3 represents no real change apart from a few more shops opening, which doesn't affect or interest me anyway. Even Tier 2 doesn't represent real change.

 

[initiation]

I fear that having been in lockdown for a couple of months, people will be too easily placated with tiers 3 and 2.

Absolutely this.

If restrictions roll on until July/August then it will be difficult for Government to get rid of them in September as the media/locktavists will scream 'winter is coming'.

Once restrictions have been fully removed it is more difficult (although definitely not impossible) to reintroduce them.

 

[Jamiescott1]

Except perhaps keeping the requirement for a negative test before entering the country, just while other countries ramp up their vaccine rollouts.

I think that's one of my biggest fears. I usually go abroad 6 times a year and the fear of not having a holiday until the summer at least is making me feel depressed.

 

[Ianno87]

Late March is too late. They should be getting rid of "stay at home" before then, if nothing else.

Late March could possibly have some decent warm weather(like some other years). If the "Stay at home" nonsense is STILL going then, I don't think many people atall will be sticking to that. They'll want to get out and about and enjoy the decent weather, not stuck at home!

It's entirely possible that likely weather will affect the government's decision. If a mild March is likely then restrictions may be eased sooner.

 

[Bikeman78]

Late March could possibly have some decent warm weather(like some other years). If the "Stay at home" nonsense is STILL going then, I don't think many people atall will be sticking to that. They'll want to get out and about and enjoy the decent weather, not stuck at home!

Agreed. I took the kids to the local park yesterday to ride their bikes. It was packed. This despite the playground and the toilets being shut. There was an ice cream van there with a few customers.

 

[yorksrob]

I think in mid March everywhere will be moved to Tier 3 as mid March will be exactly a year after the government introduced these restrictions. Boris will then be able to say that this March life is returning to normal (albeit slowly) while this time last year life was being putting on hold.


I am hoping they will move to a lockdown similar to November by the end of Feb in which outdoor recreation is permitted and the ‘Stay at Home’ message is replaced by a ‘Stay Alert’ or similar message. I am not expecting anything more before mid March though.

Indeed. After March, something akin to last summer would, to my mind be acceptable as a transition whilst the adult population is vaccinated.

 

[ChrisC]

Indeed. After March, something akin to last summer would, to my mind be acceptable as a transition whilst the adult population is vaccinated.

It’s the no overnight stays for Tier 3 and above that I have found difficult. If we had a transition period, but not too long, where rules were like last summer from July onwards I could live with that.

I did manage last summer, in August, September and October to get 3 very nice breaks away from home. These were staying in relatively small hotels in country areas, where I was able to do plenty of walking and exploring interesting small towns and villages in North Yorkshire, County Durham and Oxfordshire. All three hotels had worked hard to put covid safety measures in place and I felt very safe and had 3 fairly ‘normal’ stays. My area went into Tier 3 at the beginning of November which put a stop to to going away. I really feel for those people who have been in extra measures for much longer.

 

[yorksrob]

It’s the no overnight stays for Tier 3 and above that I have found difficult. If we had a transition period, but not too long, where rules were like last summer from July onwards I could live with that.

I did manage last summer, in August, September and October to get 3 very nice breaks away from home. These were staying in relatively small hotels in country areas, where I was able to do plenty of walking and exploring interesting small towns and villages in North Yorkshire, County Durham and Oxfordshire. All three hotels had worked hard to put covid safety measures in place and I felt very safe and had 3 fairly ‘normal’ stays. My area went into Tier 3 at the beginning of November which put a stop to to going away. I really feel for those people who have been in extra measures for much longer.

Even tier 3 gave me some good scope to go exploring in various places at the same level. It makes such a difference to being under house arrest.

 

[Ianno87]

It’s the no overnight stays for Tier 3 and above that I have found difficult.

That needs to get binned as soon as is practical in Spring. After this winter, people want and need to see distant family again.

 

[Cdd89]

Tier 2 is a lot less onerous in the spring and summer, because outdoor dining is realistic.

 

[brad465]

I almost thought Dominic Raab had died or gone into hiding until today, because I can't recall seeing or hearing anything from him for months.

 

[birchesgreen]

I almost thought Dominic Raab had died or gone into hiding until today, because I can't recall seeing or hearing anything from him for months.

He went into a phone box and couldn't find the way out for months.

 

[bramling]

That needs to get binned as soon as is practical in Spring. After this winter, people want and need to see distant family again.

I’m not sure that restriction is actually that onerous, as I bet many people are disregarding it. Chances of enforcement are minimal, even if you have an attentive neighbour!

 

[6862]

I’m not sure that restriction is actually that onerous, as I bet many people are disregarding it. Chances of enforcement are minimal, even if you have an attentive neighbour!

It is if your family live a long way away. Mine do, and as it stands the closest thing I have to a guarantee that I'll see them again is if Boris announces another ceasefire next Christmas! Perhaps they'll let us meet again before that, but it's entirely possible that Christmas will be the next opportunity we get to meet. If we lived closer, the rules would be easier to break.

 

[bramling]

It is if your family live a long way away. Mine do, and as it stands the closest thing I have to a guarantee that I'll see them again is if Boris announces another ceasefire next Christmas! Perhaps they'll let us meet again before that, but it's entirely possible that Christmas will be the next opportunity we get to meet. If we lived closer, the rules would be easier to break.

What’s actually stopping you going, though? There don’t seem to have been that many reports of people being stopped, and it seems to have been good as officially admitted that you can’t be fined going for a long drive providing the purpose is to exercise when one gets there.

 

[3141]

I don’t know, to be honest I’d be pretty enraged if I can’t get my planned holidays this year for any reason, the hotels being stuffed full of pensioners being one of those! To mitigate against this, I’ve made a load of refundable block-bookings, which also gives some flexibility regarding weather. I’m not sure there will in any case be that much demand for holidays in Swansea, Port Talbot or Newcastle...

I suspect it’s unlikely hotels will turn away unvaccinated people. Judging by what I’ve seen on a few hotel Facebook pages recently, and from conversations when I was in Wales last October, I don’t think hotels will be wanting to restrict people. But wait for the pensioners to pressure for unvaccinated people not to be allowed in places that they wish to grace with their presence. I bet we’ll see at least elements of that.

As a pensioner who hasn't booked any holidays for this year and won't do so until the health situation is a lot clearer than it is now, I’d be pretty enraged if I can’t get my holiday because of the hotels being stuffed with reservations by people who've made a load of refundable block-bookings most of which they won't be taking up.

 

[6862]

What’s actually stopping you going, though? There don’t seem to have been that many reports of people being stopped, and it seems to have been good as officially admitted that you can’t be fined going for a long drive providing the purpose is to exercise when one gets there.

I don't own a car so I would have to get the train, and while I agree that the risk of being stopped is low, the consequences of being stopped would be pretty severe once they realised I was going to visit family.