Supermarkets and Covid-19

[VauxhallandI]

Not so much following each other more of a co-ordinated approach alongside Government

Well yes judging by the videos on line it has been run out badly enough to ice whiff of Government about it.

 

[DB]

Or an alterative view is that without the use of masks, the increase would have been larger. That is also a possibility yes?

It might be if it was just one country, although even then if masks were making a notable difference it would likely be visible in the trajectory of the graph. However, it's simply not credible that this applies to every country which had a mask mandate. Look at a graph of infections for any country, and identify whether and when mask mandates were made - you won't be able to as the timing of them bears no relationship to what the graph actually does. It's therefore really not credible to claim that there is proof that they work.

The government propaganda has succeeded with this though - among the general population, there is a strong belief that it has been proved beyond all doubt that masks cause a significant reduction in transmission.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2021 ==

the point is most people medically exempt are happy to wearing sunflower lanyards or show other ID.

I'm exempt, and I absolutely hate having to wear that bloody lanyard in order to avoid some of the hassle I would get otherwise. It doesn't stop the filthy looks, but if someone glares at me I always glare back at them now.

Up until this week, Tesco was notable for its reasonable approach. Sadly, that is no more and it seems I can expect to be harassed in there too. Went yesterday evening, and they had a door guardian (not normal up until now). I was wearing the lanyard and walked past him (he was busy hassling someone else at the time). He abandoned the person he was hassling and literally ran after me shouting 'Sir, sir, have you got a mask'. I turned round and glared at him and said 'I am exempt'. His response was 'Can you show me some proof'. To which I pointed at the clearly-visible lanyard and said 'I am wearing a lanyard - can't you see it'? He backed off then and went off to annoy someone else.

And every few minutes there were patronsing announcements about masks. I am getting really, really sick of those smug phrases about "let's keep everyone safe" and its many variants which is used alongside everything to do with the Deadly Killer Virus. It's just so one-sided: what about people at risk of suicide or self-harm because of the restrictions - are they 'safe'? What about cancer patients who don't get treatement in time? Or people trapped in abusive relationships? Seemingly none of them matter and 'safe' has been redefined as measures which allegedly reduce the chances of catching a virus which poses a low risk to most of the population.

 

[david1212]

Yesterday evening there no noticeable difference in Aldi from a week earlier. One security person as usual. Everybody I saw was wearing a face covering and most were alone. For the second week hardly any bananas and a few bakery items either no or very low stock.

First I went into the adjacent B&M for a couple of reusable face masts in case Boris & Co make them mandatory at work except when the only person in a room and to try out for less misting of glasses. I'll post on that when I've used one. Back from the start last year I decided to use 3-ply medical style masks as while relative they ought to be more effective.

B&M are a low cost source of masks. Those I bought were £1 each and boxes of 25 disposable ones £2.50. 10 packs were not marked but from the website £1. A pack of 4 in Aldi was £1.69.

B&M was quiet too. There was just one security person stood near the checkouts. The customers were a mix of singles, couples both adults and adult with child and at least two families.

 

[bramling]

It might be if it was just one country, although even then if masks were making a notable difference it would likely be visible in the trajectory of the graph. However, it's simply not credible that this applies to every country which had a mask mandate. Look at a graph of infections for any country, and identify whether and when mask mandates were made - you won't be able to as the timing of them bears no relationship to what the graph actually does. It's therefore really not credible to claim that there is proof that they work.

The government propaganda has succeeded with this though - among the general population, there is a strong belief that it has been proved beyond all doubt that masks cause a significant reduction in transmission.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 15 Jan 2021 ==



I'm exempt, and I absolutely hate having to wear that bloody lanyard in order to avoid some of the hassle I would get otherwise. It doesn't stop the filthy looks, but if someone glares at me I always glare back at them now.

Up until this week, Tesco was notable for its reasonable approach. Sadly, that is no more and it seems I can expect to be harassed in there too. Went yesterday evening, and they had a door guardian (not normal up until now). I was wearing the lanyard and walked past him (he was busy hassling someone else at the time). He abandoned the person he was hassling and literally ran after me shouting 'Sir, sir, have you got a mask'. I turned round and glared at him and said 'I am exempt'. His response was 'Can you show me some proof'. To which I pointed at the clearly-visible lanyard and said 'I am wearing a lanyard - can't you see it'? He backed off then and went off to annoy someone else.

And every few minutes there were patronsing announcements about masks. I am getting really, really sick of those smug phrases about "let's keep everyone safe" and its many variants which is used alongside everything to do with the Deadly Killer Virus. It's just so one-sided: what about people at risk of suicide or self-harm because of the restrictions - are they 'safe'? What about cancer patients who don't get treatement in time? Or people trapped in abusive relationships? Seemingly none of them matter and 'safe' has been redefined as measures which allegedly reduce the chances of catching a virus which poses a low risk to most of the population.

I hate the spread of door guardians. Euston station has become endemic, every time I walk past there seem to be more and more of them in various forms.

I haven’t decided whether we’re going to make a scene going into Tesco’s as a couple, like we did with Waitrose, or just go in separately and re-unite once inside. Depends what mood I’m in, though to be honest I’d be surprised if anything is said at the time we will be going in.

 

[initiation]

Doesn't explicitly name the business involved but the first face mask discrimination case i've seen has come through with compensation paid.

First face mask discrimination case nets £7,000 - News - Kester Disability Rights

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask. The pay-out was achieved through negotiation as there was...

disabilityrights.org.uk

Hopefully these sort of actions will start to make businesses think again about such a puritanical approach.

 

[DB]

Doesn't explicitly name the business involved but the first face mask discrimination case i've seen has come through with compensation paid.

First face mask discrimination case nets £7,000 - News - Kester Disability Rights

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask. The pay-out was achieved through negotiation as there was...

disabilityrights.org.uk

Hopefully these sort of actions will start to make businesses think again about such a puritanical approach.

Good.

What I'd really like to see are some pay-outs from the police for some of the incidents which have been filmed and posted on the internet where they throw people out of shops for not having 'proof'.

 

[bramling]

Doesn't explicitly name the business involved but the first face mask discrimination case i've seen has come through with compensation paid.

First face mask discrimination case nets £7,000 - News - Kester Disability Rights

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask. The pay-out was achieved through negotiation as there was...

disabilityrights.org.uk

Hopefully these sort of actions will start to make businesses think again about such a puritanical approach.

Excellent news. One for some of the belligerents like Bridgnorth Cliff Railway to keep an eye on for sure.

 

[yorksrob]

Gearing up for my weekly trip to the supermarket. Must ensure that I don't pass out with excitement, given that that this is my only trip anywhere all week.

 

[nedchester]

And every few minutes there were patronsing announcements about masks. I am getting really, really sick of those smug phrases about "let's keep everyone safe" and its many variants which is used alongside everything to do with the Deadly Killer Virus. It's just so one-sided: what about people at risk of suicide or self-harm because of the restrictions - are they 'safe'? What about cancer patients who don't get treatement in time? Or people trapped in abusive relationships? Seemingly none of them matter and 'safe' has been redefined as measures which allegedly reduce the chances of catching a virus which poses a low risk to most of the population.

Absolutely agree about those at risk or self-harm but not sure what Supermarkets can do about it.

As for cancer care the reason they are not getting treated is because the hospitals are (in some places) overrun with Covid patients. But again not sure what the supermarkets can do except perhaps trying to reduce numbers not wearing face masks and perhaps reduce infections and hospitalisations...........

 

[DB]

Absolutely agree about those at risk or self-harm but not sure what Supermarkets can do about it.

As for cancer care the reason they are not getting treated is because the hospitals are (in some places) overrun with Covid patients. But again not sure what the supermarkets can do except perhaps trying to reduce numbers not wearing face masks and perhaps reduce infections and hospitalisations...........

Well, there will be an overlap between people at risk of self-harm and those not able to wear masks (mental health issues being a common denominator). And being treated like they are enemies of society and hassled whenenever they go into a supermarket is not likely to improve matters. So supermarkets could help by just leaving them alone.

The hospitals weren't over-run all summer, but don't seem to have made enough effort to clear the backlog.

And we are back to the assertion that masks work in reducing infections, despite no evidence that in practice they have made any difference...

 

[nedchester]

Well, there will be an overlap between people at risk of self-harm and those not able to wear masks (mental health issues being a common denominator). And being treated like they are enemies of society and hassled whenenever they go into a supermarket is not likely to improve matters. So supermarkets could help by just leaving them alone.

The hospitals weren't over-run all summer, but don't seem to have made enough effort to clear the backlog.

And we are back to the assertion that masks work in reducing infections, despite no evidence that in practice they have made any difference...

Maybe the staff at the hospitals needed some holiday rather than working at full stretch.

Masks may help so probably worth doing in the short term and some studies say they do reduce spread:

Oxford COVID-19 study: face masks and coverings work – act now | University of Oxford

Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 - for the wearer and those around them - according to a new study from Oxford’s Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science.

www.ox.ac.uk

 

[DB]

Maybe the staff at the hospitals needed some holiday rather than working at full stretch.

Masks may help so probably worth doing in the short term and some studies say they do reduce spread:

Oxford COVID-19 study: face masks and coverings work – act now | University of Oxford

Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 - for the wearer and those around them - according to a new study from Oxford’s Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science.

www.ox.ac.uk

How many times has that "study" beeen quoted on here now? It's laughable - just a secondary analysis of four primary studies (all in healthcare settings), three of which showed a benefit. So 75% of a small sample size, all in a highly controlled environment (and in a different part of the world), has been used to claim that masks in public work in this country. The actual paper (which I have read) doesn't back up the claims made in the press release at all.

 

[island]

Doesn't explicitly name the business involved but the first face mask discrimination case i've seen has come through with compensation paid.

First face mask discrimination case nets £7,000 - News - Kester Disability Rights

A disabled woman assisted by Kester Disability Rights has been paid £7,000 in compensation by a service provider who refused her access to a service because she was unable to wear a face mask. The pay-out was achieved through negotiation as there was...

disabilityrights.org.uk

Hopefully these sort of actions will start to make businesses think again about such a puritanical approach.

It’s good news, but it should be noted that:

1. It was a straightforward case of someone being refused service for not wearing a face covering, not a question of being asked for proof or served a different way; and
2. It was an out of court settlement so no precedent is set.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Maybe the staff at the hospitals needed some holiday rather than working at full stretch.

Masks may help so probably worth doing in the short term and some studies say they do reduce spread:

Oxford COVID-19 study: face masks and coverings work – act now | University of Oxford

Cloth face coverings, even homemade masks made of the correct material, are effective in reducing the spread of COVID-19 - for the wearer and those around them - according to a new study from Oxford’s Leverhulme Centre for Demographic Science.

www.ox.ac.uk

Did actually read the report before you shared it or was just the critical thinking level of reading a headline?

This is partly why our society has broken down, can you see that this is part of the problem?

Aim your personal anger about the situation at the groups of 150 having a party not at a legally exempt individual spending 15 mins in a supermarket that is Covid safe.

Can you see the issue with the behaviour we are experiencing.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2021 ==

It’s good news, but it should be noted that:

1. It was a straightforward case of someone being refused service for not wearing a face covering, not a question of being asked for proof or served a different way; and
2. It was an out of court settlement so no precedent is set.

That is exactly what the supermarkets are doing, refusing service. I will be going to one in time and if I refuse to wear a lanyard which is my right by law then they will refuse me service. If they don’t then what will the point of the conversation been?

I think I won’t mind just flashing it at the door but I don’t feel I need to wear it, that’s my compromise.

 

[nedchester]

It’s good news, but it should be noted that:

1. It was a straightforward case of someone being refused service for not wearing a face covering, not a question of being asked for proof or served a different way; and
2. It was an out of court settlement so no precedent is set.

No mention of the service provider and yes an out of court settlement. I expect a large retailer to take the matter to court.

As I say there are many who are genuinely except but a reasonable minority just throwing a toddler tantrum about wearing them. See the bloke on Merseyrail in the summer for details.

On the subject of which:

Merseysrail passenger denies assault of officer in 'face mask row'

Anthony Baldwin today pleaded not guilty in court to the alleged assault on a British Transport Police officer

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk

Seems he has form "He is only allowed to travel on Merseyrail to go to and from work, a measure which was slightly eased as it previously issued a ban from him using the network for any reason."

 

[DB]

No mention of the service provider and yes an out of court settlement. I expect a large retailer to take the matter to court.

That would depend on whether their lawyers think they would win - which in the cases I've seen quoted would be unlikely as they have been clear examples of retailers not following the government guidance.

 

[VauxhallandI]

That would depend on whether their lawyers think they would win - which in the cases I've seen quoted would be unlikely as they have been clear examples of retailers not following the government guidance.

The article is dated 8th December so I imagine it’s probably not a major supermarket?

Not that it makes any difference and still serves as a warning to them.

 

[221129]

. I expect a large retailer to take the matter to court.

I wouldn't. But it does show that you're clearly living in a completely different world to reality.

 

[bramling]

Gearing up for my weekly trip to the supermarket. Must ensure that I don't pass out with excitement, given that that this is my only trip anywhere all week.

Same. Trip to Tesco’s this evening, then collecting an Indian takeaway tomorrow evening. That’s the limit of excitement here besides work.

 

[yorksrob]

Same. Trip to Tesco’s this evening, then collecting an Indian takeaway tomorrow evening. That’s the limit of excitement here besides work.

It's sad what it's come to

 

[initiation]

This sign doing the rounds on twitter (link below). Apparently a Budgens shop in London. I wonder if in instances like this trading standards or perhaps even the police will (or should) intervene.

https://twitter.com/sophiamcoutts/status/1350000722025320449?s=19

 

[bramling]

It's sad what it's come to

And even the Tesco's trip I'm half expecting there to be a fuss when two of us enter together.

The annoying thing is that I have an increasing list of things I really want to do, that in most cases I can't for one reason or another.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2021 ==

This sign doing the rounds on twitter (link below). Apparently a Budgens shop in London. I wonder if in instances like this trading standards or perhaps even the police will (or should) intervene.

https://twitter.com/sophiamcoutts/status/1350000722025320449?s=19

How utterly ridiculous.

 

[DB]

This sign doing the rounds on twitter (link below). Apparently a Budgens shop in London. I wonder if in instances like this trading standards or perhaps even the police will (or should) intervene.

https://twitter.com/sophiamcoutts/status/1350000722025320449?s=19

Just look at the comments below that twitter post - this country really is full of toxic bigots, with many of them gloating about how shops local to them are doing similar.

I hope that these places get reported to the police - this is hate crime directed at disabled people, and as these notices are displayed to the public and many reasons for not wearing a mask are protected charateristics the police ought to be doing something about it.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Someone should post a link to the discrimination case mentioned earlier.

I can’t get involved as it’s beginning to affect me, I need to step away

 

[DB]

Someone should post a link to the discrimination case mentioned earlier.

I can’t get involved as it’s beginning to affect me, I need to step away

A number of people have done in the comments!

The comments highlight how extreme the Maskivists have become now - there are some people pointing out the actual rules and expressing disgust at this sort of behaviour, but there's a significant number cheering it on. Society is becoming more and more fractured, and social media is utterly toxic in this situation.

 

[Mag_seven]

A number of people have done in the comments!

The comments highlight how extreme the Maskivists have become now - there are some people pointing out the actual rules and expressing disgust at this sort of behaviour, but there's a significant number cheering it on. Society is becoming more and more fractured, and social media is utterly toxic in this situation.

This is where the government should step-in and say something at one of those press conferences. Either Whitty or Valance (or even better Hancock or Jonson) should come out and actually state that some people for various reasons are exempt and that they should not face abuse or intimidating signs as a result of that.

 

[bramling]

Just look at the comments below that twitter post - this country really is full of toxic bigots, with many of them gloating about how shops local to them are doing similar.

I hope that these places get reported to the police - this is hate crime directed at disabled people, and as these notices are displayed to the public and many reasons for not wearing a mask are protected charateristics the police ought to be doing something about it.

Yes toxic bigots with an over-inflated view of their own value. I find this sort of thing disgusting.

I agree with the sentiments elsewhere on the thread which suggested this sort of thing should be treated as a hate crime. It is extremely disheartening to see the country sinking to a level where people are being demonised like witches.

The government has presided over this, even encouraged it at times, and the Conservative party have a serious amount of rebuilding to do if they ever wish to regain my vote in the future. Labour are no better. The one thing we can all do it ensure we have made this very clear to our MPs. I certainly have.

 

[nedchester]

OK so we have some that have genuine reasons for people not wearing face coverings.

Is there an acceptance then that some are just bloody minded about not wearing them?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

I was a bit nervous about going to a supermarket today as I was in no mood for hassle. I was pleasantly surprised when a member of staff (not security) smiled and waved me through when I flashed my lanyard.

Not all supermarkets are bad...unless i was just lucky

And there was probably no more than 20 people inside....

 

[DB]

Is there an acceptance then that some are just bloody minded about not wearing them?

No idea, but given how few people aren't wearing them (around here at least), I doubt it.

That's not stopped the supermarkets though - Tesco now have a door bully as of this week, but whenever I go in there I rarely see more than one other person without a mask (often none). There was no need to step up the enforcement, and doing so just comes aross as bullying.